Seeing is not believing
Re: Seeing is not believing
It all tapered off, just like other emotions do. It was interesting that what I saw was the emotional hooks to 'self' that arise as I become more aware that there is no self. Interesting indeed.
Aloha to all,
Mitche in Hawaii
Mitche in Hawaii
Re: Seeing is not believing
Today clear skies within, open heart. Choosing where to focus attention, on self or no self. On story or no story. On what is arising now and now and now or on what I am interpreting the arising to be in the mind. Heart opening easier, more naturally when focus is in the real where there is no reason for the heart to not open.
That is what it is like. Calm seas. Going to the Palace now, dentist later. The dentist offers interesting opportunity to stay with what is arising.
That is what it is like. Calm seas. Going to the Palace now, dentist later. The dentist offers interesting opportunity to stay with what is arising.
Aloha to all,
Mitche in Hawaii
Mitche in Hawaii
Re: Seeing is not believing
I'm not in Thailand, but I'm with you. :-)
Only one more thing to say at this moment:
♥
Let me know when you are ready to finish, there are some questions to round off the process.
Only one more thing to say at this moment:
♥
Let me know when you are ready to finish, there are some questions to round off the process.
Re: Seeing is not believing
Three hours in the dentist's chair gave me three hours of uninterrupted looking for, at, behind and over self. It occurred to me somewhere in there that having no self, being no self, is such a relief. So much easier than struggling with all the 'business' keeping up a self requires. It is like laying down a load of bricks. High maintenance bricks.
Lex: I'm looking forward the the questions. Not quite sure where I'll be for the next few days or if there will be an internet access anywhere. This international date line thing has me a bit confused. Today is Thursday in Thailand. I expect it's Thursday where you are too. Or was. Anyway, YES, let's start the questions. I'll respond to each as soon as I see them, I may be intermittently offline, tho.
Lex: I'm looking forward the the questions. Not quite sure where I'll be for the next few days or if there will be an internet access anywhere. This international date line thing has me a bit confused. Today is Thursday in Thailand. I expect it's Thursday where you are too. Or was. Anyway, YES, let's start the questions. I'll respond to each as soon as I see them, I may be intermittently offline, tho.
Aloha to all,
Mitche in Hawaii
Mitche in Hawaii
Re: Seeing is not believing
Was there a difference getting a dental treatment without self? (just joking, don't need to answer that one, but you may if you feel like it)
I hope that the treatment was successful.
Here are the questions:
I hope that the treatment was successful.
Here are the questions:
- Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.
- Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
- What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look? was there a specific moment when seeing happened or was it gradual?
- How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
- Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
Re: Seeing is not believing
So, Lex, I got kind of long winded here. Sorry.
-Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.
Where I am is new. From what I can see there seems no need to do any of the above, stuff is going on already. Once it is in front of me I select a response as indicted, if indicated. For example, today in Bangkok I took a ride on a Tuk Tuk around the town, just a joyride. The driver wanted me to go to a tailor shop and let some guys try to sell me some suits. No amount of my telling him I did not want any suits would dissuade him, so there I was in a tailor shop. The salesman came up and started his spiel. I told him I did not know what I was doing there and that I wanted nothing. This led to a discussion of Buddhism and No Self. I gave him a 10 minute lesson in no self. He tuned in, learned something maybe about the end of seeking. We parted friends. I chose nothing, made nothing happen. It happened all on its own. When I get back to Hawaii I have a court date to fight a foreclosure on my house. I do not control what will happen. I have placed an argument before the court which is difficult for the opposing lawyer to respond to without risk on his part. He will respond or not. If he does not respond, I win and keep my house. If he does respond I do the next indicated thing at that time, whatever that may be. Someone else will tell me what to do and I will do it. I can not control these events, they will happen all on their own. Things will flow in whatever way they do. This is not to say I have no preference as to the outcome. I simply have no control. I can see that the court date was caused by my buying the house in the first place, or by my losing my job or by the downturn in the economy, or any of a thousand causes. In which case choosing what caused the foreclosure action is a pointless exercise. It happened.
SHORT ANSWER: There is no 'me' to choose or decide or intend. Things happen.
-Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
No, there is no separate entity "me". At all. There never was. There was as assumed 'me' made up of thought images, emotional energies and memories (stories) that I though was 'me'. That bundle of thought and emotion persists as thought and emotion. I see through it, know it as thought and emotion. It has not gone away. It is just what it is. Sometimes it feels sad, sometimes it feels angry. Often it is quiescent. It is like a habit, fading gradually away. Or it may not. We'll see.
-What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look? was there a specific moment when seeing happened or was it gradual?
As soon as I learned of you folks I became compellingly interested. Reading the book Gateless Gatecrashers in bed one night there came a moment when, while following along very closely, there was no 'me'. Everything else was the same. Just no 'me' in the picture. This lasted until I went to sleep. The next day I was kind of in limbo so I went onto the Guiding Area and asked for a guide. Yari was kind enough to assist me and we worked through the standard process to some effect however I was troubled over the persistent sense of 'me' in my awareness. In the Home section I asked for support and Lex responded. It was then that I told him I thought the 'me' sense should have disappeared. He asked why I thought seeing that there was no self would mean anything other than seeing there was no self. It was then that the light came on and I understood.
So, it was both a specific moment and it was gradual.
-How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
Lighter. It feels lighter. Recently, in a moment of reflection yesterday I just thought what a relief it was to be rid of that High Maintenance Self. It took so much effort to keep it fed and comfortable, like a pet white elephant. There still is some awareness of issues on the table to be resolved in my life, some accompanying minor anxiety, etc. but none of those issues are about 'me'. They are just around, just sort of present in my awareness for the time being. It is so simple, no big deal. No fireworks, no choir of angels, none of that. Just what is. In the back of mind I always though some inner door would open and I would see in another dimension or something. No, just this. Right in front of my eyes all the time, like the Man said. Also, I do feel that this is the beginning of something, not an end point. I don't have any inkling of what that means. I am just remaining open, OK with not knowing.
-Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
The separate self is a meme, a self replicating idea. "A meme is an idea that behaves like a virus--that moves through a population, taking hold in each person it infects."- Malcolm Gladwell. In fact, the separate self is the most fundamental and successful meme to ever exist on the planet. It is passed from mother to child by the very nature of the mothers caring responses to the needs of the infant and held in place by an evolved limbic system in the brain. Virtually every human interaction reinforces this belief unless consciously acknowledged and avoided by those free of the illusion. Today, humans are destined to pick up and transmit the idea, the belief in a separate self. It is inescapable in modern culture. We live in a culture that reinforces the idea of 'self' with every interaction between two persons. The separate self meme is/was a necessary step in human development. It is integral to the development of language and civilization. And,oddly, it is fallacious. The separate self does not exist.
It may be that this highly successful meme ultimately engineers its own demise. This remains to be seen. The idea of separation has wracked great devastation onto humanity and the planet. It is the cause of our suffering. It may prod enough of us to look closely enough to see through the illusion and leave it behind.
-Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.
Where I am is new. From what I can see there seems no need to do any of the above, stuff is going on already. Once it is in front of me I select a response as indicted, if indicated. For example, today in Bangkok I took a ride on a Tuk Tuk around the town, just a joyride. The driver wanted me to go to a tailor shop and let some guys try to sell me some suits. No amount of my telling him I did not want any suits would dissuade him, so there I was in a tailor shop. The salesman came up and started his spiel. I told him I did not know what I was doing there and that I wanted nothing. This led to a discussion of Buddhism and No Self. I gave him a 10 minute lesson in no self. He tuned in, learned something maybe about the end of seeking. We parted friends. I chose nothing, made nothing happen. It happened all on its own. When I get back to Hawaii I have a court date to fight a foreclosure on my house. I do not control what will happen. I have placed an argument before the court which is difficult for the opposing lawyer to respond to without risk on his part. He will respond or not. If he does not respond, I win and keep my house. If he does respond I do the next indicated thing at that time, whatever that may be. Someone else will tell me what to do and I will do it. I can not control these events, they will happen all on their own. Things will flow in whatever way they do. This is not to say I have no preference as to the outcome. I simply have no control. I can see that the court date was caused by my buying the house in the first place, or by my losing my job or by the downturn in the economy, or any of a thousand causes. In which case choosing what caused the foreclosure action is a pointless exercise. It happened.
SHORT ANSWER: There is no 'me' to choose or decide or intend. Things happen.
-Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
No, there is no separate entity "me". At all. There never was. There was as assumed 'me' made up of thought images, emotional energies and memories (stories) that I though was 'me'. That bundle of thought and emotion persists as thought and emotion. I see through it, know it as thought and emotion. It has not gone away. It is just what it is. Sometimes it feels sad, sometimes it feels angry. Often it is quiescent. It is like a habit, fading gradually away. Or it may not. We'll see.
-What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look? was there a specific moment when seeing happened or was it gradual?
As soon as I learned of you folks I became compellingly interested. Reading the book Gateless Gatecrashers in bed one night there came a moment when, while following along very closely, there was no 'me'. Everything else was the same. Just no 'me' in the picture. This lasted until I went to sleep. The next day I was kind of in limbo so I went onto the Guiding Area and asked for a guide. Yari was kind enough to assist me and we worked through the standard process to some effect however I was troubled over the persistent sense of 'me' in my awareness. In the Home section I asked for support and Lex responded. It was then that I told him I thought the 'me' sense should have disappeared. He asked why I thought seeing that there was no self would mean anything other than seeing there was no self. It was then that the light came on and I understood.
So, it was both a specific moment and it was gradual.
-How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
Lighter. It feels lighter. Recently, in a moment of reflection yesterday I just thought what a relief it was to be rid of that High Maintenance Self. It took so much effort to keep it fed and comfortable, like a pet white elephant. There still is some awareness of issues on the table to be resolved in my life, some accompanying minor anxiety, etc. but none of those issues are about 'me'. They are just around, just sort of present in my awareness for the time being. It is so simple, no big deal. No fireworks, no choir of angels, none of that. Just what is. In the back of mind I always though some inner door would open and I would see in another dimension or something. No, just this. Right in front of my eyes all the time, like the Man said. Also, I do feel that this is the beginning of something, not an end point. I don't have any inkling of what that means. I am just remaining open, OK with not knowing.
-Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
The separate self is a meme, a self replicating idea. "A meme is an idea that behaves like a virus--that moves through a population, taking hold in each person it infects."- Malcolm Gladwell. In fact, the separate self is the most fundamental and successful meme to ever exist on the planet. It is passed from mother to child by the very nature of the mothers caring responses to the needs of the infant and held in place by an evolved limbic system in the brain. Virtually every human interaction reinforces this belief unless consciously acknowledged and avoided by those free of the illusion. Today, humans are destined to pick up and transmit the idea, the belief in a separate self. It is inescapable in modern culture. We live in a culture that reinforces the idea of 'self' with every interaction between two persons. The separate self meme is/was a necessary step in human development. It is integral to the development of language and civilization. And,oddly, it is fallacious. The separate self does not exist.
It may be that this highly successful meme ultimately engineers its own demise. This remains to be seen. The idea of separation has wracked great devastation onto humanity and the planet. It is the cause of our suffering. It may prod enough of us to look closely enough to see through the illusion and leave it behind.
Aloha to all,
Mitche in Hawaii
Mitche in Hawaii
Re: Seeing is not believing
Sir Mitche, I'm deeply touched by your clarity and really enjoyed reading your extensive answers.
I'll check with some other guides if they have any questions, which I can hardly imagine.
If not, you will be added to some “post-lib” groups.
I (im)personally would be delighted if at some moment you would take up guiding others.
♥
I'll check with some other guides if they have any questions, which I can hardly imagine.
If not, you will be added to some “post-lib” groups.
I (im)personally would be delighted if at some moment you would take up guiding others.
♥
Re: Seeing is not believing
Just back from the jungle. Had a marvelous time with some butterflies. I said before I left that it seems this is not the end, rather a beginning. And that I had no idea what that meant. I would add to that now by saying that in fact the way forward seems clearly marked. Can't see any farther ahead than the next step but that's all that is needed.
Meanwhile, I dance. Later, I dream egoic dreams. When I look, they evaporate. Some quickly, some more slowly.
Guiding others seems like a worthwhile enterprise. I've been looking for some way to be of service. Does one learn by doing or, well, or what? I don't know. I would love to know about post-lib groups, please.
Time for sleeping. Mahalo for your giving.
Mitche
Meanwhile, I dance. Later, I dream egoic dreams. When I look, they evaporate. Some quickly, some more slowly.
Guiding others seems like a worthwhile enterprise. I've been looking for some way to be of service. Does one learn by doing or, well, or what? I don't know. I would love to know about post-lib groups, please.
Time for sleeping. Mahalo for your giving.
Mitche
Aloha to all,
Mitche in Hawaii
Mitche in Hawaii
Re: Seeing is not believing
I'm very happy to hear that.Guiding others seems like a worthwhile enterprise. I've been looking for some way to be of service. Does one learn by doing or, well, or what? I don't know. I would love to know about post-lib groups, please.
I'll send you a personal message with some information.
Good luck and hope to meet again in cyberspace soon.
Have fun in Thailand. Enjoy!
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