Polite request for guidance.

[Jorge786]

But then what is that which observes the thought? I create a 'self' to observe the first thought but really it is just another thought. Then another thought to observe this that I label 'self'.

there is consciousness, there are thoughts, there are senses...
the "I" does not exist, is an illusion

Am I on the right track or completely missing the mark?

that's a story too, no one to be right, nobody to get wrong

these are only thoughts too. Arising and passing.

Yes

Then does this thought remember the previous one? No but it leaves a trace. One thought conditions the next. It plants the seed of the next.

they reacting to everything, memories, senses, events, but its a mechanical reaction
where is then the "I"?

[DanielDempsey]

I still associate the 'self' with my internal dialogue.
When I look to find the 'self' the looking is part of the internal dialogue.

"Looking, looking, that's not the self, that's not the self...I can't find a self" but this very internal dialogue is what I assosciate the self with. Intellectually I can understand that it isn't. It's just thinking. But there still feels like an 'I'...whenever there is thinking there feels like self.

[DanielDempsey]

.

[Jorge786]

I still associate the 'self' with my internal dialogue.

but... ¿can you see that identification?,
¿how that is possible if that dialogue is "you"?... "you" can't to see itself in that dialogue
there is a consciousnesses what is observing but is not personal
we can say that like we can say there is senses but they are not "us" or "me"
is an advance... to see "that dialogue" is not you
so... ¿how is possible to remain the identification if you know that?
¿where is the attachment?, ¿how its feel?
the brain is functioning by itself...
here its like a friend who is talking (so much sometimes) ;)
but "he" is not "me"... do you see?
its running by itself
here its nothing... nada... like a zero... like infinite
there is not "you", there is not "me"
there is not person here, there or nowhere, its empty... all of this is only "this" not a persona
"you" can control anything, nothing, ¿can you feel this?
is there a doer?, if there is not "you"... something is doing anything?

hugs
Jorge

PS.. if i cant post for any reason please continue with the reflections about, post what is arise in thoughts

[DanielDempsey]

Yes…there is consciousness. Its just that identification with thought gets in the way of pure experience. Or rather, thought IS an example of pure experience but attachment to it causes confusion.


There is habitual personal identification with thought. But how to break the habit?
There is just consciousness….then comes identification. I can see this but identification still arises habitually.

I see that thoughts are like the breath. They come and go. They are not me. There is no 'I' but the process of self-identification still habitually persists.

I feel that I can see that there is no-self at times. I experience it. It feels light and airy…slightly detached…pleasant. But it takes effort and concentration. Constant reminding or I slip back into old habitual tendencies.

[DanielDempsey]

Its all running by itself. Happening.

[DanielDempsey]

Judgement arises. It all seems so mechanical, to look at things this way. But, it is simply how it is. Labeling it mechanical is a judgement and calling it judgement is a label. HAHA language is so absurd.
It doesn't feel bad. It feels light. Mechanical is just a label.

Thoughts arise and pass. Feelings arise and pass. Emotions arise and pass. All conditioned by each other.
I suppose its only as mechanical as a stream is mechanical. Its like a stream.

[DanielDempsey]

I think I might have it.
It's like a car without a driver.
Thoughts and emotions just come and go. They happen mechanically. There is no 'i' behind them.

[Jorge786]

This is not fair!, As someone can "become enlightened" in my absence!
JAJAJAJA

[Jorge786]

well ... the truth ... nobody gets to be "enlightened" ;-)
Tell me a little more about what's going on there

[DanielDempsey]

So, I was doing a lot of thinking last night. Looking into this for an hour or two.

There is consciousness. There are hands typing. Eyes looking. Thoughts bubbling up. But its like the body functioning. Breathing, cells replenishing. It happens on its own. There is no owner to it. I was giving special significance to thoughts.

Looking at this and seeing it doesn't feel 'spiritual' whatever that means (I really don't like that word). It's mechanical. Thats the best way to describe it. Thought, feelings, emotions arise mechanically. Like breathing. When I sit and look at it…feel it…it feels very pleasant. Calming.

Sometimes a little bit of fear bubbles up. Judgement. 'Is that all there is' 'There is an I' 'I am not mechanical'. But when I look at these thoughts they seem amusing. Whats wrong with being mechanical? A stream is mechanical in its own way. A stream is beautiful and ever changing. This is mechanical like a stream.

I still feel like that there is something to be done. That I'm not there yet.
But, I don't know. It feels like the paradigm shift has occurred. Seeing that the thoughts just come and go. There is nothing special about them. It's all mechanical.

I haven't tested it yet but I'm not sure if i'll go back to being caught up in thoughts again, in stressful situations etc. I still feel like this is something that needs active concentration to see. Yes, I feel that unless I sit here and actively look, actively concentrate then I will go back to identification with thoughts.

[DanielDempsey]

There is no 'I' to be mechanical anyway. Just watching the stream instead of trying to fill glasses and bottles.

[Jorge786]

Just watching the stream instead of trying to fill glasses and bottles.

Yes, yes, yes!

I still feel like that there is something to be done. That I'm not there yet.

"who" is not "there" yet?
what is need to be "done"?
in this experience, here, nothing is "done", is a constant discovery!, but the seeker is gone, the search is over

I haven't tested it yet but I'm not sure if i'll go back to being caught up in thoughts again, in stressful situations etc. I still feel like this is something that needs active concentration to see. Yes, I feel that unless I sit here and actively look, actively concentrate then I will go back to identification with thoughts.

but is only a "sense", the real thing is the answer to this question: is there a "self", a "me", a "you"?

what about control?
are "you" in control of the things? or in control of what happens?
what about the separation?
there is a separation between things or all the same, how do you feel about it?
what about the "others"?
how so you feel respect to "others", the ppl is there? and the relationships?
ohh.. so many questions!... relax.... take your time!
there is a new world outside... and... is the same

write what comes to mind if you have to express yourself!

congrats! and Welcome home!

[DanielDempsey]

For the purpose of language and communication we can speak of 'me' and 'you'…but when looking closely its just thoughts, feelings and emotions arising and passing.

I mentioned watching the stream earlier…maybe thats what 'we' are both doing. The separateness is just looking at different points in the stream. The 'me' and 'you' is just different parts of the stream being looked at…and its a HUGE…MASSIVE stream. This 'body', this 'mind' is a point in the stream from which experience can be observed.

My girlfriend, my mother, my sisters. The love for them is still there. Exactly the same. Really, I feel exactly the same. All of the thoughts and feelings are still there. Maybe just looking at them a little more objectively without getting caught up in them.

Hmmm…its like sitting really close to a TV screen and being really caught up with whats going on. But then moving a little further away from the screen you see that its just a TV show. It can still be your favorite show but there is a little extra level of detachment there…a more objective viewpoint.

Am I in control of things? Hmmm…well there is no 'I' to be in control. Just arising and passing.
This is interesting. I always told myself that I had 'free will'. But there is no 'I' to possess anything. Thoughts, feelings, emotions come conditioned by previous thoughts, feelings and emotions. They bounce off of each other. It is mechanistic. Decisions are made. There is no 'I' to make them.

The big metaphysical questions are still there. They seem forever un-answerable. But they are unimportant. Just language games…jokes…fun and happy distractions.

I still want to write more Jorge. I want to experiment to see what arrises in different situations. thanks for all of your guidance. I will write more when ideas arise. I would still love to try to answer more of your questions too.

[DanielDempsey]

Yes...nothing to be done. Just constant discovery of what arrises.