The I-thing

[Damon Kamda]

Yes: awesome: the I-thought as a meme, exactly!

You still feel like a me. Of course you do, that's the sense of self, there's no need to get rid of this sense. Can you see, however, that it is only a feeling? Has always only been a feeling, wonderfully familiar, very intimate, yet it doesn't refer to a concrete, separate entity.

Look, you've got the intellectual understanding down, now apply this understanding in the day-to-day life: test it out from every possible angle. Try to prove yourself wrong.

Is it true that there is no you. Ingen?

[Ingen]

One of the most annoying repetitive thoughts is:
I am too fat. This makes me feel bad. And it makes me feel very I-ish.

When i dont exist, what is it that feels bad about body fat? Fat exists, beauty standards exist, judgement happens (why?), feelings arise. Where am i in that? Am I the "feeling bad about myself" feeling? 
If i wouldn't consider myself an entity, which feelings would arise about body fat? Would there arise feelings around that? 
I can't imagine.

another angle.

The I-thought "wants" to prove it's reality through bad feelings. Maybe the I thought IS bad judgmental feelings about not meeting standards?

[Life]

Can you see, however, that it is only a feeling? Has always only been a feeling, wonderfully familiar, very intimate, yet it doesn't refer to a concrete, separate entity.

Is it true that there is no you. Ingen?

Now answer these questions after having looked into experience. When sitting there behind the computer, are you doing the looking, the thinking, feeling, hearing, breathing, digestion, heart beating? Or is it just happening without control? Could it be true there is no you?

[Damon Kamda]

One of the most annoying repetitive thoughts is:
I am too fat. This makes me feel bad. And it makes me feel very I-ish.

Haha, yeah, familiar thought, for sure.

When i dont exist, what is it that feels bad about body fat? Fat exists, beauty standards exist, judgement happens (why?), feelings arise. Where am i in that? Am I the "feeling bad about myself" feeling?

Well, Ingen, look for yourself if there is a you in that at all. You are describing what is actually happening perfectly- the sense of being a discreet entity is constantly being fed by these kinds of feelings, and not only the annoying ones, all the positive self-thoughts strengthen this sense as well.

Maybe the I thought IS bad judgmental feelings about not meeting standards?

So, yes, that's a large part of it, although it would be too much of a simplification to reduce the I-thought to bad judgmental feelings alone. There's more to this. The I-thought pops up all the time, even in the most mundane activities. Question these thoughts. ("I am doing x", "I am feeling y" etc.). See if there is ever any reality in these thoughts, if there has ever been any reality to them.

Life's suggestion above is really good- look at your experience, every last little detail of it and see if there is ever an actual I other than the I-thought.

[Ingen]

It is true, the I is only a thought. A script, which gets kickstarted by real or imagined assaults. I think it performs assaults on itself on a regular basis (to make sure it doesn't dissappear). I have to look more into this.

I know it when sitting here writing on the forum. Away from the computer the seeing gets more difficult, caught in poor-me- habits.

I have to look more.

[Damon Kamda]

Dare to look deeply into this- dare to find out what is true- it will take some courage and determination, but it can be done. Is it true that there is no self?

Good luck!

[Ingen]

I don't really know what you mean be "it requires courage". Maybe i am not even near the edge, i don't see anything to fear...

House is dirty. *I* have to vacuum. (Poor-me thought.) Who or what is it that doesn't like the dirt? Is there an entity? There are preferences, there is dirt. There is the vacuum cleaner. Is it life itself who is going to clean the house?

No it is me me me. Getting angry.
I'm back in half an hour

[Damon Kamda]

Perhaps it's my love for drama ;-) Can't you see the eternal abyss that is staring you in the face, Inger?
Determination may be a better word- something is ready to be recognized, and in this recognition a freedom is to be had, a freedom that has always been, but has been simply overlooked.

Who's going to clean the house? Yeah, good question- find out!
In cleaning, is there a cleaner?
In getting angry, is there someone getting angry?

Bedtime here, back tomorrow.

[Life]

How does the house get clean? Looking happening, dirt is seen in the house, there comes the thought ''oh no there is dirt, dirt is bad, have to clean'', vacuum-cleaner is used, dirt moved into bag, where is the I in all that?

Life is doing it, cause there is no you and life, look, is it true? Us telling you how we have seen this and telling you how this can be done is one but you need to look see it in experience

[Ingen]

Can't you see the eternal abyss that is staring you in the face,

Somehow, vaguely, I believe I know what you mean. Unless I think about it. Like it is all a big circus, and we pretend not to know and hide behind our cosy characters...

[Life]

Is the character real?

[Ingen]

The character is a bundle of thoughts. It is really interesting to catch thoughts and look at them. I do that a lot now.

Today when driving to work, I asked my self many times: who is driving? And i (kindof) didn't even understand the question. A thought cannot drive. There was space, changing landscape and movements to steer the car. And I noticed that the "I was doing that" thought happened after the movements were done.

But driving is easy. It is neutral. I keep looking

[Ingen]

Chain of thought:

Thougt 1: This (whatever) is great.
Thougt 2: I am really good at my job.
Thought 3: Feeling good

How does it feel without step 2?

thought 1: This (whatever) is great
thought 2: Alert! Underlying I-thought is claiming (whatever).
thought 2: Feeling good about the outcome and about catching thought 2.

This does require effort, though….

[Damon Kamda]

You're doing great, Ingen, it seems like you're getting the gist of what we are pointing at here.

It does take effort to do this, of course, because we are actively looking at a very deeply ingrained habit here.

Seems like you have come to the core of this:

Today when driving to work, I asked my self many times: who is driving? And i (kindof) didn't even understand the question. A thought cannot drive. There was space, changing landscape and movements to steer the car. And I noticed that the "I was doing that" thought happened after the movements were done.

A thought cannot drive. Indeed.
Can a thought think?
Can a thought feel?
Can a thought become liberated?

It's been seen that the I-thought comes as an afterthought, after the action occured. Now is the I ever a priori, before experience, or is it always already part of the narrative?

Like it is all a big circus, and we pretend not to know and hide behind our cosy characters...

Haha. Is this true? How true is this? I like how you say "we pretend not to know", because what this is about is simply remembering that this has never been forgotten.

So, look. Is it true?

[Ingen]

Glad to hear that!

Here is a problematic thought:

I want to be praised. (Stupid as this is.)
I want to be praised, and I am stupid.

This doesn't work without constructing an I-entity. Or what?

Do these thoughts disappear when the I-habit is being unlearned?