Yes, please

[dreamer]

Very well Kaspars

Now watch thoughts. Insert something in a thought that you want to think - make the voice in 'your head' say something. Look carefully. What is happening? What is before the insertion? What happens? What is 'a wish'?
What is speaking? Who is speaking? How do you make speaking happen? Look carefully.

Take your time. Please give a notion here if you need more time than one day.

Warm regards Vivi

[dreamer]

All of it seems to be thoughts. 1 thought says that "i can make stuff happen", something happens, and another thought assumes identification.

Right...look closely into this.

how do i see trought this made up dialog in my head? its the same voice on both sides, just a circus going round and round, both prosecution and a jury.

Is it your thoughts?

Hi :)

[kaspars]

Now watch thoughts. Insert something in a thought that you want to think - make the voice in 'your head' say something. Look carefully. What is happening? What is before the insertion?

something else. silence or my voice reading this text.

>What happens?

voice in my head appers and says what i thought, maybe my tongue moves a bit.

>What is 'a wish'?

its an idea. a thought, but somehow it seems to connected to "me". a wish is a command that might or might not be possible to fullfill. my body listens to these commands most of the time.

>What is speaking?

i don't know.

>Who is speaking?

me? some voice in my head that is somehow connected to me.

>How do you make speaking happen? Look carefully.

i don't know where the decision to speak comes from, but speaking out loud comes from the body. speaking in my head comes from - i dont see how it works. i somehow want to do it and it happens, there is someone who has some interesest in thinking that thought and the thought appears, not sure how it works.

>Please give a notion here if you need more time than one day.
OK, I'll try. Thank you for taking your time.

>>just a circus going round and round, both prosecution and a jury.
>Is it your thoughts?

they are not mine per say unless a thought claims them. some thoughts seem to be linked to/reference this body. some link to happenings that i have witnessed, some link with feelings in the body. a lot of them point to feelings and they try to explain them and comment them. they arrise as a comment about a sensation in the body. they sometimes claim to be a solution for a problem, but somehow they know very little that is usefull most of the time. it is what it is.

[dreamer]

Hi Kaspars

1. Think something of your own choice
What is experienced?

2. Think only happy thoughts for 5 minutes
What is experienced?

3. Don't think anything
What is experienced

Are you the thinker of thoughts?

warm regards Vivi

[kaspars]

>1. Think something of your own choice
>What is experienced?

when i want to say something its like i have to force it a bit, but still i can make it happen, no idea what is that "i", but there is an attachment to that.
then i repeated to myself several times that i want to think about cats. i relaxed into it after a bit and a stream of thoughts about cats appeared. it doesnt always work, but sometimes it works and that is the most confusing part. i can ask(gently command) for specific thoughts and they appear.

>2. Think only happy thoughts for 5 minutes
>What is experienced?

i can't do that. that command doesn't work. all kind of thoughts come into mind.

>3. Don't think anything
>What is experienced

i can't do that. thoughts come in/appear. i can stop them, but it takes an effort.

>Are you the thinker of thoughts?

no, but i seem to have some control, like in the case of cats.

[dreamer]

Hi kaspars

Let us look at the attachment to the 'I' that seem to be able to make certain thoughts happen.


Don't think of a pink elephant.



Were there any thoughts of a pink elephant?



Did I just make you think of a pink elephant? Can I control your thoughts?



What did you experience?


Greetings Vivi

[kaspars]

>Don't think of a pink elephant.
>Were there any thoughts of a pink elephant?

Yes.

>Did I just make you think of a pink elephant?
Yes.
>Can I control your thoughts?
Yes, you can in a way. Any read text and otherwise received information (TV, etc.) seems to have impact on the thought stream that is coming my way.

>What did you experience?

a voice “ in my head” read the text, image appeared. Some voices have a different flavor, e.g. when I try to speak “in my head” or when I read something, but I don’t seem to distinguish them clearly.

[dreamer]

Hi Kaspars

It is written: Think of something of your own choice.
It is read.
Thoughts saying: OK.
A thought appears: think of cats.
Another thoughts appears: cats, think of cats.
Other thoughts appears: image of a black cat, long tail, four paws. Striped cat...etc.
Next thought: Hey I seem to be in control of some thoughts!

a voice “ in my head” read the text, image appeared. Some voices have a different flavor, e.g. when I try to speak “in my head” or when I read something, but I don’t seem to distinguish them clearly.

What is this 'voice in my head'? What is this image? What is this 'I try to speak in my head'? What was before the sentences were written? What is during and after these sentences are read?

Who is this 'I' that seems to be able to control some thoughts? What is it?

warm regards Vivi

[kaspars]

>What is this 'voice in my head'?

thoughts.

>What is this image?

a thought.

>What is this 'I try to speak in my head'?

a thought.

>What was before the sentences were written?
emptines/silence or maybe another thought.

>What is during and after these sentences are read?

thoughts.

>Who is this 'I' that seems to be able to control some thoughts?

It's more like revere. Thoughts seem to be in control of me :)
I dont know what the "I" is. it doesnt seem to exist, at least no tthe one thoughts refer to!

>What is it?

I do not know. Thoughts claim that this "I" and "me" is affected. They don't claim it exists. It doesn't exist, but a thought comes in and says - "maybe it does, but it just can't be found. Not finding it doesn't mean it doesnt exist, it just means that I stopped looking."
Yet nothing seems to claim that it exists! not even thoughts. thoughts claim that "it" is affected, constantly affected by this and that and that too, etc...

This seeing that it definitelly does not exist comes and goes. I can actually see that "I" to which thoughts refer does not exist, but thoughts come back and constantly claim that "I" is affected by something that is perceived to be outside of me/outside of my control, even thouh "control" is only a thought. There is a constant play, a constant game. and it has a pull, an almost constant pull. and even if there is nothing that thoughts are pulling, there is still this feeling that something "exists", and it is affected. It's like a living mechanism all by itself. It's like a bubble, self contained.

[dreamer]

Hi Kaspars

Yes it is all thoughts coming and going.

Are those thoughts believed?

greetings Vivi

[dreamer]

Please describe your expectations of how it will be when it is realised that 'I' does not exist.
Describe in as much details as possible.

greetings Vivi

[kaspars]

>Yes it is all thoughts coming and going.
>Are those thoughts believed?

Sometimes they are believed, but it can only be seen in retrospect after something was really uncomfortable, it could be desribed as something stretched and when "it" returns to the "original-much-less-stretched" position then it's seen that it was streched, but there is no knowing how to avoid that, so there is going along with it, until it will be seen through eventually(i hope). An example is - expectations of some stress at work, something that i cant deliver and being uncomfortable about it - then something streches out from its original position. maybe u have some ideas about this too? :)

>Please describe your expectations of how it will be when it is realised that 'I' does not exist.
>Describe in as much details as possible.

there should be some sort of shift in perception for example a definite seeing that everything to do with the "I" does not exist, it should be much easier than it is now to deal with contractions. now i just stick with it and then the contractions dissapear eventually, like the example i described above - its not seen through that its just a game, a play, a joke, there is this feeling of being streched out and then let go afterwards.
at some point (if its possible) i would like to see personal will to disapear as such, i dont know how it is - i would think that the "I" thoughts are never believed again, and if they are - they are untangled in a few moments or in a very short time. I see it possible and that is what is wanted.
I sometimes (e.g. when i wake up) see how mind builds stuff, first there is nothing, then there is seeing and then all those things are "downloaded", all those opinions, feelings, and an unbelievable amount of crap that one would call personality. why the f%#ck do i have to see trough that all the time? its falling away, probably, but its too slow. i want it to go faster. i want to see the flowers.
:)

[dreamer]

Yes....

why the f%#ck do i have to see trough that all the time? its falling away, probably, but its too slow. i want it to go faster. i want to see the flowers.
:)

Seems the real tough thing is to let be what is, even the feeling that this is too slow.
How inconvenient it is to have to see through that all the time ;)

Too slow to whom?
Inconvenient to whom?

There must be something you can do to make it quicker? Use your free will to choose to see through this non-existing 'I'. What are you waiting for?

Or does free will not exist?
Is it not possible to choose?

When there is no I, who is there to choose?

Look into this. What is your experience about free will and choosing, when you look with as little thoughts as possible. Thoughts is what labels experience e.g. as I, me, mine. Look into what you KNOW about free will and choice this instant - not what you assume.

E.g. When you wake in the morning and get out of bed - how does the choosing to get up happen? When you walk how do you experience the free will of turning right or left?

Warm greetings Vivi

[kaspars]

>Too slow to whom?
I do not know. Those are just other thoughts, and they are believed.
>Inconvenient to whom?
inconvenient to “no one”.
>There must be something you can do to make it quicker? Use your free will to choose to >see through this non-existing 'I'. What are you waiting for?

>Or does free will not exist?
it seems to neither exist nor not-exist. Free will as such is a thought.
>Is it not possible to choose?
I don’t know. Choosing happens, “seeing” happens. But somehow this seems to be just more thoughts.
>When there is no I, who is there to choose?
I do not know.

>KNOW about free will and choice this instant - not what you assume.
When I look I see that choice happens. I don’t see how. It seems to happen in some silence.
>E.g. When you wake in the morning and get out of bed - how does the choosing to get up >happen?
No idea. Some interest arises outside of bed, so I have to get out of bed to get to that place.
>When you walk how do you experience the free will of turning right or left?
Usually there is a goal and that goal is followed, if possible. Sometimes there is a goal and turning and walking just happens and I find myself walking or being in a place.

[dreamer]

It is all thoughts!

Yes it is!

What happens reading this?

Greetings Vivi