Looking for a guide

[Shell]

3) When I say LOOKING (DE) without thinking...I certainly dont mean to try to stop the flow of thoughts. I only mean not to get caught up in their content, or the story. Just to notice their nature..how they come and go...how impersonal to you they really are...and what devastation it brings when we "believe" the content of the thought stories (ie, I am not enlightened...it will take me years of lifetimes to be enlightened...I am doing it wrong...I might not be able to work and support my family if my fingers are broken by a hammer...My kids are irritating the hell out of me with their raucous noise in the bath...)
xxxxxxxxxxx

[NilsKromhout]

Hi Shell,

Just a quick reply from my phone.
Thanks a lot for your encouragements. It helps a lot to continue with full energy and enthusiasm.

Talk to you again tomorrow!
Love, Nils

[NilsKromhout]

Hi Shell,

I just had an insight: I am not DOING anything. I am present as awareness to see what arises but I have no influence or power whatsoever. I cannot steer the body or thoughts or feelings or seeing for that matter. I mean I see, but I am not doing or steering the seeing. I am an uninfluential (is that an English word?) powerless spectator!

It looks obvious when I read it back but it makes more sense to me now.

Good night,
Nils

[Shell]

Marvellous insight dear Nils.

Its 6am and Im off to work now...wont be back til around 9pm. Enjoy your further direct looking and the insights that will continue to come with the exercises.

Does "I see" feel more or less true for you, when we write it as: "seeing happens"? "I" makes it personal and something to claim. Just a word label...as you say, useful for everyday communication...but is it TRUE? Or...does seeing and the seen just happen simultaneously?

Looking forward to more of your discoveries this evening!

Love, Shell xxx

[NilsKromhout]

Hi Shell,

Continued with the exercises. I didn't repeat the answers in the previous mail, but complemented them.

So I have an exercise for you. And I want you to do it. Really do it. Find a moment when you can sit somewhere, like in a park setting. I want the eyes to be closed when you get to be seated in your park. I want the eyelids to suddenly blink open, and for you to LOOK, like a new born babe...or an alien landing on this planet for the first time. I want you to approach this exercise as if you know (intellectually) NOTHING about this world or anything it contains, which would include the body you may or not at this point be identified with. And I want you to report, very, very honestly, what is there in the movie frame when the eyelids are blinked open. There will be a tremendous amount to report about, in just one second.

Specifically in answer to the question: "what is there in the movie frame when the eyelids are blinked open?"
There is and undivided whole of shapes, shades and colors, with no separation between different objects. That division comes right after that by thoughts.

Also what I noticed is that when (my) eyes open, seeing happens. There is no "I" involved in that (especially if you take away "my").

Part 2 of this exerices is noticing thoughts that arise as you LOOK. Are thoughts really a special and unique and important part of the entire sensory frame of the world that the eyes suddenly perceive? OR, are thoughts simply just part of what is arising in the entire frame of the world that is being perceived?

Like I said in the previous answer, I see clearly the labelling happening. Not so clear yet is the label "I". I tried to look while playing tennis and driving the car if I was in control or could let go of control, and I have the feeling I got glimpes of no control, but not really clear.

What I also noticed a couple of times is that seeing and thinking about seeing doesn't happen simultaneously. If you think about something you don't really SEE it anymore (same for hearing and tasting).

Part 3 of this exercise: is ANY of what is arising simulateously PERSONAL to an individual? - and this would include thoughts, of course.

I see more and more that what happens not personal, though I feel my body still as MY body. Sometimes the thought comes up "life experiences itself through me", followed by "no, I am awareness experiencing through a body" and then "isn't it both untrue? life is just experiencing, or even better, experiencing is happening". But anyway, that's only thinking, not looking... what I wanted to write is that I have more problems seeing the impersonal when it comes to my body and being in control or not.

Does "I see" feel more or less true for you, when we write it as: "seeing happens"? "I" makes it personal and something to claim. Just a word label...as you say, useful for everyday communication...but is it TRUE? Or...does seeing and the seen just happen simultaneously?

What I tried (a bit) is to take out the "I" in my thoughts. So, artificially, thinking or labelling events impersonally, e.g. thinking "walking happens" instead of "I am walking". It helps a bit to stay out of identifying with the "me" too much, but not a whole lot to be honest... but I thought I'd try out something...

When I wrote this:

I just had an insight: I am not DOING anything. I am present as awareness to see what arises but I have no influence or power whatsoever. I cannot steer the body or thoughts or feelings or seeing for that matter. I mean I see, but I am not doing or steering the seeing. I am an uninfluential (is that an English word?) powerless spectator!

I thought afterwards I probably didn't phrase it right. It felt like a a strong insight. A bit like the deep visceral kind of AHAA you wrote before. I think the most important element was the not being in control, not being the doer.

With love,
Nils

[Shell]

Good very early morning dear Nils,

See, you're in my heart at 05:30 in the morning :-)

Let me repeat again, I'm thrilled for you and your progress with the exercises and questions...and your honesty. That helps soooo much.

Nils, would you take time to read through the following...and do the exercises as instructed. Dont rush through the read. Maybe a focused few times through. The intention is that it may help you further to see directly that there really is no "doer" or "controller"...and that the body that you still feel is "yours" is not "yours" at all.

You already had the Ahaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!! insight that there is no "doer", which is great. This might help that insight deepen.

Parallel to this, remember that words such as you, mine, he, his, her, hers, we, our, you, yours and they, theirs are all just language offshoots of the "I" word or label.....As you have already clearly seen, language is a contruct and does not point to what is REALLY true at all.

Example, you could call a tree a horse...but the tree would still be a tree.

Here is the link to the excerpt on "doership" or "control" :

http://this-is-cosmik.blogspot.ca/2012_ ... chive.html

Secondy, if I tell you that linear time is an illusion, that linear time does not exist, what comes up for you?

Much love,

Shell xxx

[NilsKromhout]

Hi Shell,

Don't you sleep?! I was awake too, actually writing down some insights I had while reading the Enlightening quotes app.

I did the (very simple) exercise of moving my hand to left and right and had the following succession of insights:

I cannot SEE or FEEL a self moving the hand, only the hand moving.
But the self-thoughts will still come up. But if you look at it, i.e. go back to DE, you will see through it.
There is no separation. That is only thoughts, a story.
"I" and my experiences are one. Leave out the I and the experiences go on. No need for an I.
If you can't perceive it with your senses, it's a story.
Also the separation in time is a story. Without I there is no continued story separate from the rest of life, just lost of things happening, or more accurately, life happening.

And I am not just repeating quotes.
I really have the feeling things start to click in place!

I will do the things you mention. I just wanted to share this with you.
Let's see how it further develops!

Love,
Nils

[NilsKromhout]

Hi Shell,

Sorry by the way that I was reading the Enlightening quotes. I agreed not to do 'other' stuff. But they helped me to do your exercises better since they say exactly the same things in slightly different ways.

But I am still 100% focussed on the process with you.

With love,
Nils

[NilsKromhout]

Hi Shell,

Nils, would you take time to read through the following...and do the exercises as instructed. Dont rush through the read. Maybe a focused few times through. The intention is that it may help you further to see directly that there really is no "doer" or "controller"...and that the body that you still feel is "yours" is not "yours" at all.
Here is the link to the excerpt on "doership" or "control" :
http://this-is-cosmik.blogspot.ca/2012_ ... chive.html

I did the exercises from CosmiK's blog. Great stuff!
I can see that there are sensations and thoughts, but no "I" involved that is doing something. Lots of thoughts that have "I" in it, but always afterwards. Maybe a sense of self like the sense of aliveness, but not as a doer, not having any influence on the activities. Especially with activities that are considered by many people as largely automatic like driving a car.
And I see quite clearly now that this body is not my body, but a body that happens to be experienced quite closely. Despite continuous thoughts that claim this body as mine. But they are also part of the experience of life.

Parallel to this, remember that words such as you, mine, he, his, her, hers, we, our, you, yours and they, theirs are all just language offshoots of the "I" word or label.....As you have already clearly seen, language is a contruct and does not point to what is REALLY true at all.
Example, you could call a tree a horse...but the tree would still be a tree.

This is also clear for me (without wanting to sound cocky :-) ). But do you think it is a good exercise to try for a while to avoid the word "I"?

Secondy, if I tell you that linear time is an illusion, that linear time does not exist, what comes up for you?

I can see the past and the future only exist in thought. Without thinking there is only now. With thinking as well actually. When focussing on DE, there is only the experiencing at this moment.
I do experience a continuation in time however, e.g. when I wake up in the morning I remember the day before and this day as following the events of the day before. But I have already experienced once or twice that when I woke up, for a very short moment there was no "I", and then the whole world came in again with the "I" and all memories of the past and the day before and the things to be done that day.

And not to forget them I copied 2 of your previous questions in this post. I am still working towards them.

Does a spitball being thrown in the world have less, more, equal or absolutely no effect whatsover on what you are, compared to a nuclear bomb going off in the world?

I want you to fully realise that NO one is in the world. And that includes your beloved family. They ALL exist eternally and are beloved of you forever. But NO ONE is here in the world. Its an hallucination.
What comes up when I say this?

Take care,
Nils

[Shell]

Off to work at 5am, dear Nils! Good morning to you! xxx

And I see quite clearly now that this body is not my body, but a body that happens to be experienced quite closely. Despite continuous thoughts that claim this body as mine. But they are also part of the experience of life.

Excellent, Nils!

But do you think it is a good exercise to try for a while to avoid the word "I"?

Not really, Nils dear. Avoidance strengthens illusions, funnily enough. You have already seen through the illusion of pronouns in language. They can pop up as often as they pop up. You dont need to do anything about them - you cant, as you discovered, control thinking. You are not the thinker, as you have already discovered. Just continue to look directly at them as they pop up. Its the Direct Looking that reveals illusions for the un-real that they are...As you have already reported, thoughts are simply a part of the whole picture, which pops up in its entirety fresh evey nano second...

I can see the past and the future only exist in thought. Without thinking there is only now. With thinking as well actually. When focussing on DE, there is only the experiencing at this moment.
I do experience a continuation in time however, e.g. when I wake up in the morning I remember the day before and this day as following the events of the day before. But I have already experienced once or twice that when I woke up, for a very short moment there was no "I", and then the whole world came in again with the "I" and all memories of the past and the day before and the things to be done that day.

Do you directly see that memories are also just thoughts of a non-existant past that itself is no longer "real"? Remember, we are not seeking for a thoughtless or memory-less state.

What comes up when I say there is no seeker and nothing to be sought?

What comes up when I say that the spiritual search is a search undertaken by a non existant entity?

Sorry by the way that I was reading the Enlightening quotes. I agreed not to do 'other' stuff. But they helped me to do your exercises better since they say exactly the same things in slightly different ways.

But I am still 100% focussed on the process with you.

Its absolutely fine to read those quotes from here. Its also absolutely fine to read the Gateless Gatecrashers book, which you can download for free here. Its also absolutely fine to practice meditation if that is part of your day. Its continuing with different paths simulataneously to this Direct Looking that can cause confusion. All of that you can return to later if you would like to.

I can see that there are sensations and thoughts, but no "I" involved that is doing something. Lots of thoughts that have "I" in it, but always afterwards. Maybe a sense of self like the sense of aliveness, but not as a doer, not having any influence on the activities. Especially with activities that are considered by many people as largely automatic like driving a car.
And I see quite clearly now that this body is not my body, but a body that happens to be experienced quite closely. Despite continuous thoughts that claim this body as mine. But they are also part of the experience of life.

Brilliant, dear Nils! Good! Marvellous!
Here is another little exercise. I guess you are sitting at the table reading this? Could you please rest a forearm on the table. Close eyes. Tell me through direct looking, what you "see" in direct perception. What you feel in direct perception? To use words, where does the forearm begin and end and the table that the forearm rests on begin and end? Or, is there simply sensation...and no forearm and no table? Do this exercise in a restful, gentle way. Report back with your discoveries.

Nils, you have seen through the illusion of "I" (and all the pronouns that shoot off from "I"). How do you, or do you see "others", now?

Sending much love!

Shell xxx

[NilsKromhout]

Hi Shell,

You sure get to work early!
I really appreciate you doing this. You seem quite busy.

Do you directly see that memories are also just thoughts of a non-existant past that itself is no longer "real"? Remember, we are not seeking for a thoughtless or memory-less state.
What comes up when I say there is no seeker and nothing to be sought?
What comes up when I say that the spiritual search is a search undertaken by a non existant entity?

Yes, I can see memories only exist in the mind, in thoughts, mostly mental images, also lots of beliefs. Not even very accurate most of the time either. In lots of cases I remember the memory and not even the actual event!

About the seeker: I'd say there never was a seeker, and the belief in the seeker and believing the seeking separate from the seeker was the one thing keeping the seeking alive. I have heard this phrase sooooo many times before, nodding in agreement, but only now do I really see the truth of it!
"You are already that", another one of those non-duality clichés, but absolutely true! Nothing changes in reality. It is so simple, "right in front of you". Something from the Enlightening quotes comes up: you cannot see what is not there, you cannot see a banana that is NOT on the table. So it's really easy to overlook that experiencing life is all there is. Everything else is a story in the mind and therefore not real.
I always wondered why these "gurus" always speak in such platitudes, but there really is no other way to talk about this. It makes sense if you see it, and it doesn't if you don't.

Here is another little exercise. I guess you are sitting at the table reading this? Could you please rest a forearm on the table. Close eyes. Tell me through direct looking, what you "see" in direct perception. What you feel in direct perception? To use words, where does the forearm begin and end and the table that the forearm rests on begin and end? Or, is there simply sensation...and no forearm and no table? Do this exercise in a restful, gentle way. Report back with your discoveries.

If I really focus on the touching area between my arm and the table, I notice it is not possible to even tell the difference between my arm and the table. There is only a sensation of pressure and temperature difference. Same with the air above my arm by the way. I also notice that my mind tries to make a mental image of the arm and the tables to separate the two, and if I don't look closely, that mental image is quite convincing!It's easy to 'feel' the arm touching the table, but it is only in thought, not in reality.

How do you, or do you see "others", now?

First reaction was, "others" are also part of experiencing life and experiencing happens through them as well, so there are no "others" at all.
But I also think of other people as not having seen it yet, still believing in their "self", trying, struggling, to make it better, or to change life, which is futile. There is lots of worrying going on, which I can still see coming up for "me" as well. But I know there is nothing that can be done, there is no doer, so ultimately there is no point in worrying.

I also have an urge to tell other people about this SEEING and "direct experience", like my wife when she says she has a lot on her mind. I tell her that those thoughts are not hers, they just pass by like clouds in the sky. But I notice people really have to be ready for this, otherwise it only creates resistance and irritation. As if I don't take their problems seriously.

Then your 2 questions I copied from previous posts into my last post:

Does a spitball being thrown in the world have less, more, equal or absolutely no effect whatsover on what you are, compared to a nuclear bomb going off in the world?

I want you to fully realise that NO one is in the world. And that includes your beloved family. They ALL exist eternally and are beloved of you forever. But NO ONE is here in the world. Its an hallucination.
What comes up when I say this?

A nuclear bomb would create other experiences than a spitball, more I dare to say. Less nice experiences, but that is a label. If the nuclear bomb would go off in the vicinity of this body, there would be no more experiencing with the senses of this body, but life would go on and experiencing life as well. So the answer is, no difference in effect on what I am.

And with that the second question is actually answered as well. Only the part about the "hallucination", do you mean it is a hallucination that there are persons and individuals existing in the world. Or that the world is an illusion?


I feel I have come a long way if I look back at my first post. I don't know if I am ready, but it feels quite good. I remember 2 insight moments: when I realised there is no doer and when I saw no "me" when moving my hand. With the last one I remember thinking: "Is this it? Is it this simple?"

I still have on other question referring to this quote from you:

Its the Direct Looking that reveals illusions for the un-real that they are...As you have already reported, thoughts are simply a part of the whole picture, which pops up in its entirety fresh evey nano second...

I don't see this yet, that the whole picture of reality pops up in its entirety fresh every nano second. I see that the whole world dissappears when I fall asleep and appears again when I wake up, and that the mind links those 2 moments together in time, but I don't see this happening every moment.

Thanks again for you help. I am really grateful.
This is a great process and you guide me well.

Love,
Nils

[Shell]

Hi there dear Nils,

I really appreciate you doing this.

Its really my pleasure, Nils, and gratitude abounds here, too.

Yes, I can see memories only exist in the mind, in thoughts, mostly mental images, also lots of beliefs. Not even very accurate most of the time either. In lots of cases I remember the memory and not even the actual event!

He he! I love the sense of humour! Good insight here.

About the seeker: I'd say there never was a seeker, and the belief in the seeker and believing the seeking separate from the seeker was the one thing keeping the seeking alive. I have heard this phrase sooooo many times before, nodding in agreement, but only now do I really see the truth of it!
"You are already that", another one of those non-duality clichés, but absolutely true! Nothing changes in reality. It is so simple, "right in front of you". Something from the Enlightening quotes comes up: you cannot see what is not there, you cannot see a banana that is NOT on the table. So it's really easy to overlook that experiencing life is all there is. Everything else is a story in the mind and therefore not real.
I always wondered why these "gurus" always speak in such platitudes, but there really is no other way to talk about this. It makes sense if you see it, and it doesn't if you don't.

Oh happy insight! Actually, you can see a banana that is not on the table. You can see entire worlds that do not exist. You probably do it nightly ;-) And on occaision during the waking dream (image-ination) ;-) Some of us lucid dream a lot of the time (complete awareness to the fact of dreaming). So, stay open-minded re the banana on the table idea....

Secondly, stay open to the DE that you have had that experiencing what you call "life" is all there is. There is a reason that some, if not most, of the "deep seeing" masters (and everyday folks) like myself refer to "life" as a dream, as maya, as an hallucination....A thought or belief tells you "this life experience is all there is". Your DE has informed you clearly that experience and experiencer are not separated at all...and that life is lifing along without an individual you OR individual others. And you have already seen clearly that there neither you nor anone or thing else arising in perception is the doer or controller. This is already a marvellous insight. But, please, its really important that you continue to stay really "open-minded", dear Nils.

Im going to give you one statement, now. And here it is, "there is nothing so blinding as perception of form" (which would include the entire universe you perceive). I'm not asking you to do anything with this statement. Its a little gift. The results of your DE for disproving that there are boundaries of so called separate objects (which I will quote next) are already pointing you to this statement...Here it is:

If I really focus on the touching area between my arm and the table, I notice it is not possible to even tell the difference between my arm and the table. There is only a sensation of pressure and temperature difference. Same with the air above my arm by the way. I also notice that my mind tries to make a mental image of the arm and the tables to separate the two, and if I don't look closely, that mental image is quite convincing!It's easy to 'feel' the arm touching the table, but it is only in thought, not in reality.

See...nothing so blinding as perception of form, huh?

First reaction was, "others" are also part of experiencing life and experiencing happens through them as well, so there are no "others" at all.

But I also think of other people as not having seen it yet, still believing in their "self", trying, struggling, to make it better, or to change life, which is futile.

OK, sweetie, I really understand where you are coming from. And its important that we look more deeply into this.

You wrote me that you know viscerllay and deeply now, through DE, that you are NOT the body. Do you believe that the others who are not out there ARE bodies??? No, of course not. And it is this that will help you live compassionately as if you are in the world, whilst knowing you are NOT. This is the key, the SEEing that will lead to knowing what to do when you are interacting with people, animals, indeed so-called inanimate objects, too!

If this SEEing has lead to a feeling of futility or even despair, there is nothing I can "do", then our friend the non-existant ego has stepped in sublty.

This is a moment for the greatest joy, Nils, this SEEing. You perceive that "others" are suffering because they believe in their mortality essentially. Health issues, financial issues, struggles, relationship issues, the whole tragic deal, if you will. Born to die...

So, what you do, is - with the enormous empathy and compassion this SEEing engenders - is, you REMEMBER that "they" are not what they believe they are. You silently REMEMBER, that "they" are eternal, changeless, timeless, formless, inseparable, indivisable perfect, wholly encompassing Love, too!! This is what we sometimes refer to as True Forgiveness. Forgiving "others" for what they have never done.

And on the level of form (in the world), you can not but treat (in your heart) both murderer and victim with the same compassionate and understanding view. They are both equally caught in the same nightmare, and both have equally the same need to "wake up" from the nightmare of mortality and separation. This view extends to every aspect of the rising and disappearing world (which is why we call it Maya - nothing Real can be threatened, nothing unreal exists...except in a nightmare/ dream).

I also have an urge to tell other people about this SEEING and "direct experience", like my wife when she says she has a lot on her mind. I tell her that those thoughts are not hers, they just pass by like clouds in the sky. But I notice people really have to be ready for this, otherwise it only creates resistance and irritation. As if I don't take their problems seriously.

Generally, you cant go wrong with kindness. None of us can judge where "someone else" is on the pathless path to awakening. If you hold True Forgiveness, as described above, peace, gentleness and compassion will be what emanates from the "body-character Nils". You can listen to your wife's upsets and worries without making them REAL in your mind. This is one of the kindest things you can do. Its the peace, the gentleness, the kindness, the compassion that your wife will see, will recognise. And it is exactly this which gives enormous comfort to someone in distress or anger or fear. Unshakable peace and compassion....no matter WHAT "they" are doing...

On a practical level of everday worldly functioning...the body-mind Nils will simply continue to function as it always has. But now you KNOW that "you" are not doing it. In the True Forgiveness way of being, what the body-character Nils does will always be the right thing for all seeimingly distressed others involved.
If speaking about what you have learned through DE happens, it will happen, and its not you thats doing that...If it does not, it does not...

So, to re-cap: 1) First, you remember that there is no one "out there", that "they" are always the eternal...This remembering is your joy, too...
2) the rest I mentioned above :-)

A nuclear bomb would create other experiences than a spitball, more I dare to say. Less nice experiences, but that is a label. If the nuclear bomb would go off in the vicinity of this body, there would be no more experiencing with the senses of this body, but life would go on and experiencing life as well. So the answer is, no difference in effect on what I am.

:-)

And with that the second question is actually answered as well. Only the part about the "hallucination", do you mean it is a hallucination that there are persons and individuals existing in the world. Or that the world is an illusion?

Nils, dear, this last bit is not part of the LU guiding process, which only leads to SEEing through the illsuion of "I".
Not only have you already SEEn through the illusion of "I", but you have SEEn through the illusion of separation, too.

If you would like to, there is a closed invitation only group (not LU affiliated, but all members came through LU) which looks extremely deeply into questions such as this. We will be glad to have you there, if you want to...But, I may not go into it here (I know I have with you already, a wee bit ;-)). So...your question here will be what points you to the answer for "yourself". There is no rush - no linear time, remember? ;-)

NIls, in closing, I have shared a lot with you here. It is not intended as a teaching. It has appeared to be shared...and that is all. Its for you to DE around with...to see if it is "true" for you in your DE...or not xxxx

Nils, now would be a really good time to ask me, or tell me, better said, where you still may have doubts or fears or questions about the SEEing process you have engaged in. We like to address them, should there be any, before we give you the final questions to answer.

The MOST important thing is that YOU are sure that you have SEEn through the illusion of "I". Thats what we are here for :-)
Much love,
Shell

[Shell]

2) (extension to message above this one)...and Nils...now might be a good time for you to DE the nature of the world, of life happening. Crucial here, is whether or not you DE the ever changing nature of it all. Do you?

If you do...can you recognise SEEing may or may not be a constant experience? (For many, it is far from a constant experience. Often described as forgetting and remembering again, or sleeping and waking up to the illusion over and over again). I want to mention this here...so that you can DE this for yourself...it is not a reason for concern if "SEEing" is not constant. That is also just part of life lifing along, and has nothing to do with you. Or does it? Dont believe anything I say. DE it for yourself xxx

[NilsKromhout]

Hi Shell,

Wow. Lots of interesting topics in your post that bring up new questions.

Just a practical question that would clarify: does text in green mean something like "good point" and red "look again"?

Secondly, stay open to the DE that you have had that experiencing what you call "life" is all there is. There is a reason that some, if not most, of the "deep seeing" masters (and everyday folks) like myself refer to "life" as a dream, as maya, as an hallucination....A thought or belief tells you "this life experience is all there is". Your DE has informed you clearly that experience and experiencer are not separated at all...and that life is lifing along without an individual you OR individual others. And you have already seen clearly that there neither you nor anone or thing else arising in perception is the doer or controller. This is already a marvellous insight. But, please, its really important that you continue to stay really "open-minded", dear Nils.

Probably out of the topic for this forum as well, but I'll try anyway. Do you mean to say, stay open to the possibility that there is more than only experiencing life happening? Or am I misinterpreting here?

"there is nothing so blinding as perception of form"

Same trying as above: if I keep on looking/DE-ing, will I see there is no form, there is only oneness? (not "me" of course, I'm using "I" here conversationally)

nothing Real can be threatened, nothing unreal exists

Do you recommend continuing with a Course in Miracles? I tried it without noticable effect, but would you say after seeing through the illusion of self, it is worth giving it another try?

If you would like to, there is a closed invitation only group (not LU affiliated, but all members came through LU) which looks extremely deeply into questions such as this. We will be glad to have you there, if you want to...

I would love to!

Nils, now would be a really good time to ask me, or tell me, better said, where you still may have doubts or fears or questions about the SEEing process you have engaged in. We like to address them, should there be any, before we give you the final questions to answer.

I have no questions about SEEING through the illusion of "I". I am sure that I have seen through that.

A couple of points/questions that are still present and might be relevant:

1) This point from my previous post:

Its the Direct Looking that reveals illusions for the un-real that they are...As you have already reported, thoughts are simply a part of the whole picture, which pops up in its entirety fresh evey nano second...

I don't see this yet, that the whole picture of reality pops up in its entirety fresh every nano second. I see that the whole world dissappears when I fall asleep and appears again when I wake up, and that the mind links those 2 moments together in time, but I don't see this happening every moment.

Is this important, or is this also outside the LU process?

2) I don't DE yet that life is one continuous flow. If I do the exercise with sitting in a park looking at all the movements, I see I have no control, but I don't see this one flow. Is that important?

3) Then the point from your very last post:

now might be a good time for you to DE the nature of the world, of life happening. Crucial here, is whether or not you DE the ever changing nature of it all. Do you?
If you do...can you recognise SEEing may or may not be a constant experience? (For many, it is far from a constant experience. Often described as forgetting and remembering again, or sleeping and waking up to the illusion over and over again). I want to mention this here...so that you can DE this for yourself...it is not a reason for concern if "SEEing" is not constant. That is also just part of life lifing along, and has nothing to do with you. Or does it? Dont believe anything I say. DE it for yourself xxx

I have already experienced that I get lost in the illusion of "I" again and then realise it and see it. One Enlightening quote helped where they compared it with watching a movie and getting dragged into it, and then realising again it's just a movie and you are watching it.

About seeing the ever changing nature of the world/life: I know that and accept it, but I'm not sure if that means the same thing as DE it. I mean I don't SEE everything changing, e.g. a rock doesn't change before my eyes, but I know it is breaking down constantly (have been told by scientists is of course a more correct answer...).
Then if I close my eyes I can feel a vibrating sensation. Like when doing the exercise of (not) feeling the arm on the table.

And then the last question: how does "my" process now continue? For example...

Not only have you already SEEn through the illusion of "I", but you have SEEn through the illusion of separation, too.

...are there more illusions to be SEEn through...? :-)

With thanks and lots of love,
Nils

[Shell]

Hi dear Nils,

Just a practical question that would clarify: does text in green mean something like "good point" and red "look again"?

If its stuff I highlighted, with red I was confirming the DE...and your insight. I have to look again for where I put green! It will either be a confirmation or "good insight", or look more deeply. Can you work out which?

Probably out of the topic for this forum as well, but I'll try anyway. Do you mean to say, stay open to the possibility that there is more than only experiencing life happening? Or am I misinterpreting here?

Yes, I do mean just that. If its changing, if its not eternal and timeless and formless, just continue to stay open and DE what comes up. But I might get slaughtered for this comment ;-)

Same trying as above: if I keep on looking/DE-ing, will I see there is no form, there is only oneness? (not "me" of course, I'm using "I" here conversationally)

You are right, this is out of forum. Let's just say that to continue with DEing is not a bad thing ;-)

Do you recommend continuing with a Course in Miracles? I tried it without noticable effect, but would you say after seeing through the illusion of self, it is worth giving it another try?

Nils, be open to the idea that this work here IS an effect that is very noticable of your work with a Course in Miracles. I had no idea that you had ever studied the Course. And yet, you get a guide who brings up True Forgivenss, which is the central teaching of the Course, along with the statement, "There is no world!"....ACIM can be grossly misunderstood and normally is. Should it happen that you continue with it, there are guides who will be happy to point you to what the Course IS saying, and what it is NOT saying. (And I dont mean lecturing...Really using pointed questions for you to find the answer(s) within your self. But, Nils is not the doer or the controller, right? What will happen is what will happen.

I would love to!

(join the group).
You will need a Facebook page for yourself. The group runs over a closed Facebook page, as do all of the aftercare LU groups. If you dont have one, maybe you can set one up now?

I have no questions about SEEING through the illusion of "I". I am sure that I have seen through that.

Good, then I will post the final questions for you to answer as fully as you care to in your own words. Your surety of seeing through the illusion of "I" is the most important.

I don't see this yet, that the whole picture of reality pops up in its entirety fresh every nano second. I see that the whole world dissappears when I fall asleep and appears again when I wake up, and that the mind links those 2 moments together in time, but I don't see this happening every moment.

No, its not expected that you see it every moment all the time. You have SEEn, and that is what is marvellous and helpful.

I don't DE yet that life is one continuous flow. If I do the exercise with sitting in a park looking at all the movements, I see I have no control, but I don't see this one flow. Is that important?

I dont see that life is one continuous flow, either ;-) Did I use the word "flow"? I dont think I meant to, sorry if I did. The movie analogy is a good one...

About seeing the ever changing nature of the world/life: I know that and accept it, but I'm not sure if that means the same thing as DE it. I mean I don't SEE everything changing, e.g. a rock doesn't change before my eyes, but I know it is breaking down constantly (have been told by scientists is of course a more correct answer...).
Then if I close my eyes I can feel a vibrating sensation. Like when doing the exercise of (not) feeling the arm on the table.

This is good work, NIls. Yes...its amazing when through DE that the vibes are felt. Dont get caught up with cosmic orgasms through the forearm though...or seek to repeat it. Its just one of the DE experiences that you have had among many. And it is also not constant and unchanging in your DE'ing...But, I directly know what you are talking about...some of the indian masters called it Prana, or the life force flowing...for some it is extremely blissful.

And then the last question: how does "my" process now continue? For example...

Well dear, I will post you the final questions this evening, I have to leave for work now. Other guides will read our process together and check up on what I may have missed out on, ask you further questions, or simply directly confirm you as through the gateless gate. In which case you will be invited to the fore-mentioned after gate groups.

I have to run, Nils, Use today to continue the DE gently. Let it settle a bit.

Much love, no time to check for my errors!

Shell xxx