A red please - for no-holds-barred pointing.

[ElPortal]

Hi Vince

Thanks for your questions.

How does it feel to see this? describe in detail.

There is no one sudden change, it seems.

Some lightness, sense of floating, not being held down. Life and it's problems go on, but they no longer define any 'me'. In fact in a way there is some slight feeling of uninvolvement in them, at least at the moment.

There is some sense of relief. Seeking over (in the sense of looking for something). It always was. It always is. Probably 'it' has been seeking me, and it's 'I' that have been hiding (or thinking I was).

Seems like nature/life have been whispering this truth at me all along. Life just happens by itself. In the same way, the life here (ie 'mine') which I thought I was running, I now realise has been running itself all the while.

Nothing seems like a means to an end anymore. Each moment is all that matters and just for itself. Today is not here for tomorrow's sake. It is to be lived for itself.

In terms of relationships, in some ways it seems callous, because things which were of life and death importance are now seen to be transient and unreal. In fact, I almost have to be careful not to seem uncaring to some close to me, especially family.

Other than that it's pretty gentle. So far none of the fanfare, hallelujah chorus or lightning bolt etc has happened. Rather, it seemed to creep up subtly.

How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it.

First instincts are to keep quiet for a while: if I had tried to describe this to me 18 months ago it would have sounded like gobbledygook. I am just trying to take on board what is happening, myself. Also words sometimes can be misleading in describing this, as the very language seems to suggest the illusion rather than the seeing through it.

Probably I would ask them how they see 'themself' and why. Then follow that up with them, playfully challenging the sense of separation and self: something like that.

Cheers

Mark

[vinceschubert]

What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
Was there a specific moment when seeing happened or was it gradual? what exactly happened?

When you say "I", what are you referring to?

Is there an experiencer experiencing, or is there only experience?

[ElPortal]

Hi Vince

What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Last Wednesday after lunch I asked myself: how can I know that yesterday actually existed? and how can I know that tomorrow actually exists, that both are not just constructs or assumptions? As I considered this question, there seemed to arise a sense of timelessness. In fact the same question could have been asked about 'this present moment' but just the thing about 'today' seemed to provoke a realisation that 'this is all there is'. So time seemed to stand still, and everything (especially the natural life outside the window) seemed curiously immediate and 'just so'. A magical quietness seemed to fall which lasted for some time (not sure how long). It somehow felt very significant. Then this weekend on this site I started the dialogue with you and didn't really realise until questioned specifically about 'sense of self' that it cannot be found anywhere.

Was there a specific moment when seeing happened or was it gradual? what exactly happened?

This has seemed to be a gradual process, kind of accelerating over the last 6 months. It has been a bit like getting pulled into a whirlpool. There has been self-enquiry, listening to video talks, some reading of books, and much sitting alone quietly, then at times doing none of the above, just 'being open'. There have been some physical symptoms like a continual fizzing in the head, some aches at the nape of the neck which stopped about a month ago, some different kinds of dreams, but actually these are just happenings not necessarily carrying any significance. There have at times been both an external and an internal letting go off things, accompanied by some emotional release. All the while it seems that seeing the self as a separate entity has been diminishing, this being regularly tested by some fairly rigorous life events. It is hard to believe that someone somewhere has not been cleverly orchestrating it all (but there's no serious belief that they have!).

As commented before though, it has mostly felt pretty gentle and surprisingly ordinary.

When you say "I", what are you referring to?

Hm stuck a bit here with the way language works. When I say 'I', it really indicates 'happening takes place over here' in, or in the vicinity of, the so-called 'Mark' body, but even that feels pretty unsatisfactory. The apparent brain, ears, mouth - and even the apparent will attached to this body (though that is seen as a myth too) - all seem to respond to 'I', 'you', 'he' and 'Mark', but in reality there is no separate entity there.

Is there an experiencer experiencing, or is there only experience?

There is just experiencING. The rest, eg the experiencer, is just imagined.
There is undoubtedly an apparent body here, including an apparent brain, even with apparent processing abilities and memories. But the committee formerly known as 'I' seems to have gone missing. In fact it is realised that they were a sham all along. There is just what is happening.


Cheers

Mark

[vinceschubert]

Mark, there is no doubt here that you are already through the gate.
i need to get 3 others to confirm that you have passed through the gateless gate, then you will be invited to join a Facebook group where 'gatecrashers' support each other and explore 'deepening'.
There are many new 'skills' to be considered as you are entering a whole new world now.
Anyway, lots of this kind of processing happens in Unleashed, so "friend" me on Facebook and i will invite you to join.(when confirmation occurs)
https://www.facebook.com/vince.schubert

There is a small doc worth reading here; http://liberationunleashed.com/PDF/Awakened.pdf
and a great video here; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Biv_8xjj8E

[ElPortal]

Hi Vince

Many thanks for your guidance and time to date.

I have done a friendship request in FB .

Cheers

Mark

[ElPortal]

Hi Vince

Many thanks for your guidance and the time you have given to date. It is appreciated.

I have done a friendship request in FB .

Cheers

Mark

[vinceschubert]

Ok Mark, just waiting for the 3 confirmations (or more questions)...