H&H (Hello and Help) :)

[Zmay]

This morning I as always get still and look inside (I do this in the morning and before bedtime, often during the day when time permites. I don't like the word meditation as it is to much used to have any meaning. Of course I was the whole time (before stillnes and after) trying to work with what you gave me. After completing my stilltime I reminded calm and relaxed for some more time...and then I somehow felt what you said...there is no little man behind thoughts...there is no me really. It felt like my shell is there and a wind is blowing through it. I don't know if it will last, just enjoying now the calmness...will post later when possible...love

[Eloratea]

Nothing outside the experience, but automatically sorting begins...it is almost as one action.

Yes, so it seems as we have never payed so close attention on the functioning of our mind. Please, notice mind is here also a concept. In direct experience there are just thoughts. Coming and going, with no control over them. No thinker. Keep looking about this in your experience. Is there experiencer of the experience without thoughts about him?

I have a laptop on my lap....so I see screen and part of my body. If by myself you mean the idea of me...or what I now perceive as me...well then I can't see the screen any more, at least not clear and I inspect with thoughts my body, where it is how it touches the surrounding, how I feel....and so on.

I meant that you can't find yourself anywhere in your experience as it is not there. You can see your computer, it can be perceived, of course also mentally constructed out of the shape and color perception, but self you can not find in any way or form.
If I would tell you to look at pink elephant in your room, you wouldn't go to look for it. As you know, it is not there.
But self is not more real than pink elephant. There is just belief that keeps you looking for it.

I try to check it...sometimes it is true, but sometimes it looks not so....for example, I see on the clock it is time for me to go to school to teach...then I command my body and it goes. If I would not command it would remain sitting and enjoying itself :).

Oh, can you explain how „you“ command your body? How it happens?
In my experience there is just thought and action, with no one giving or receiving commands.
There might be a thought: I would like to stay home. And than thought: I need to go. And one or another action happens. Yet, thoughts can tell a big story about it :)

Mostly I cannot choose what I think, I would dare to say I never can (must investigate longer to be definite on this and I will).

Investigate and let me know what have you found.

--------------------

I somehow felt what you said...there is no little man behind thoughts...there is no me really. It felt like my shell is there and a wind is blowing through it. I don't know if it will last, just enjoying now the calmness...

Yes, so it is. And it is not something that really can go. Even thoughts and feelings as they arise don't need to cover it. Old thought patterns still can keep returning, BUT, they don't have to be believed. Then they become to dissolve, till the projection of separate self completely stops. So it is important to understand this mechanism.
We are not chasing some state to possess it for ever. We look at truth of what already is. Looking gently through whatever arises in experience, to see if there is in reality anything substantial at all. Or it is just clarity of awareness and emptiness as it is called in Buddhism...

Much Love.

[Zmay]

Investigate and let me know what have you found.

It seamed to me that sometimes I could choose at least a general direction of my thoughts....for example if I decide to get alone and engage in a daydream about something that I like...I can not decide every thought, but at least the thematic of it...

But after this morning I find it somehow boring to think (about things as above), make concepts and think in general....I had a busy day with meeting a lot of people. Usually I woud get bored or agrevated (with this people)...but it was different, something has moved. It is not easy to describe, something small. Like before, but loosen up, somevere in the middle there is no seriousesness any more. Things don't hang on me...like in the cartoon with dexter when he invents a tight slik second skin...so nothing, no dirt can hang, stick on him...it slips down. So is it now here. I get into old patterns but it soon slips away, it does not look important.

I don't know what is it, maybe just a new mind construct of me. I will look on. I also got a strong ringing, humming in my left ear. I have no strength to look further, tomorrow I will do....have written this a second time now as the first time it was lost (and I have not followed the advice about saving it every now and then), probablly now not so clearlly written....thank you for all, will continue tomorow...

[Zmay]

Oh, can you explain how „you“ command your body? How it happens?
In my experience there is just thought and action, with no one giving or receiving commands.
There might be a thought: I would like to stay home. And than thought: I need to go. And one or another action happens. Yet, thoughts can tell a big story about it :)

That is true....it is a story...I don't like that (going to school)...and then another thought, you have to...if not you loose your job...and another...life is so hard, why can't I stay and just relax...and another about responsibility...and maybe about how lazy always am and was....and then feeling guilt and inadequacy...and then go to work and feel as I am going to forced labour....and so on the stories...:). Is it possible to live without it? I mean it is a story, I can often recognise it and stop...but still it is...it does not come natural....
After stopping it it feels like closing eyes before danger or sticking my head in sand...

Is there experiencer of the experience without thoughts about him?

I must admit I can't find him...he is here when I begine thinking about him. But again it is so fast...almost natural.

Thank you for all the guiding...I am working ...ha,ha...who is working, on what...I feel stupid at times...the pink elefant is telling stories to himself....ha, ha...such a good time for him...good morning and have a good laugh :)

[Eloratea]

Good morning :)

Still chasing pink elephant?

It seamed to me that sometimes I could choose at least a general direction of my thoughts....for example if I decide to get alone and engage in a daydream about something that I like...I can not decide every thought, but at least the thematic of it...

How do you choose the thematic? :)
I would say that thematic also just comes, in thoughts, one by one :) And it comes in accordance to the actual conditions. In accordance to all your past, likes, dislikes, character and individuality... There is a will, intention, but look is there a separate entity „I“ choosing their experience, or it is just an illusion of the mind?

But after this morning I find it somehow boring to think (about things as above), make concepts and think in general....I had a busy day with meeting a lot of people. Usually I woud get bored or agrevated (with this people)...but it was different, something has moved. It is not easy to describe, something small. Like before, but loosen up, somevere in the middle there is no seriousesness any more. Things don't hang on me...like in the cartoon with dexter when he invents a tight slik second skin...so nothing, no dirt can hang, stick on him...it slips down. So is it now here. I get into old patterns but it soon slips away, it does not look important.

Good, there is a shift happening. Once you see the mechanism of creation of „I“ you can always look through any identity that will try to develop. With the help of honesty tool.

That is true....it is a story...I don't like that (going to school)...and then another thought, you have to...if not you loose your job...and another...life is so hard, why can't I stay and just relax...and another about responsibility...and maybe about how lazy always am and was....and then feeling guilt and inadequacy...and then go to work and feel as I am going to forced labour....and so on the stories...:). Is it possible to live without it? I mean it is a story, I can often recognise it and stop...but still it is...it does not come natural....
After stopping it it feels like closing eyes before danger or sticking my head in sand...

You can't stop the story. Story goes on … :)
There is no you to do that. Remember, just thoughts.
BUT, it can be seen as that, story with imaginary characters. Than it may change or not. But it doesn't matter much. Here we go for truth, not for the improvements of the stories.

Keep looking!

[Zmay]

Still chasing pink elephant?

Oh yes...is it there or is it not...it looks like yes...and then it looks like not....

The Idea of "me" as a pink elephant dancing around hiding and showing makes me laugh. Sometimes its funny and sometimes it looks dead serious...and then again I laugh at myself.

But in the behind of the head is the question....me, I what is it where is it...the more I think the less I find it....but the stories are still coming in there...and I often embark on it...the dream takes me, cloudes me in and take me wherever it wants...then after some time, shorter or longer I come out like when I avake in the morning and again notice it....like sitting in stillnes, watching thoughts...and then they take me and became story...and then again awarnes about it, back to watching....

Is there an end of this...will I be a ping pong ball endlessly?

Sometimes I loose hope, it looks like nothing ever change, and then sometimes it looks something is there so near...

I work on, thank you for your pointers...you are dead on...also an choosing of topic is the same...just a thought...and everything else you pointed out...

and now Willie E. Coyote goes back to the drawing board...Genious, ha,ha...

[Eloratea]

yes, cosmic joke...

Is there an end of this...

End for whom? Is there a "who" to begin with?
Do you have this experience, or it is just an experience?

Keep looking and tell me where are still doubts.

Also, have a nice day :)

[Zmay]

When I look or try to look into the questions about me....I see thought, emotions as result of thought and senses of the body...on this "I" is built....but when I investigate it is again through thoughts...the same way...it is frustrating...it gives answers, mind understandings, concepts....but no real seeing...like I want to do something that is impossible, like biting my own tail (if I would have one)...sometimes I hear the background, something is there...but when I try to concetrate I lose it completly. Like when I learned to see auras...it was the same thing...when I relaxed something was there...and then I try to "see" it and it was gone.

Can I do something? I mean doubts will arrise as long as I not clear see it...I will..no I am continuing. Today the "I" have a lot of free time to fill with thinking about itself....Thank you...

And have a nice day to :)

[Eloratea]

What could you do?
What are you traying to see? Don't compčlicate :)
Look and see; It is no one there. Never was.

[Zmay]

I feel stupid...thanks for pointing it out...cose I am. thx :)

[Zmay]

What could you do?
What are you traying to see? Don't compčlicate :)
Look and see; It is no one there. Never was.

So what I call "my life" is just a random series of events...I can't do a thing because I am not...just a series of events that thought labels, puts together and sais : Thats you, thats your life?

Like when things happen and people search for meaning where no meaning exists...you just brok your leg and black cat crossed the street....not you broke your leg because a cat crossed the street.

Body came, was there and dissapeared...like thoughts like countries, like companies, like everything in this material world....and nothing, no common denominator...no ME....

Uf...and my so called search for liberation at the end brings me to dissolving me and not liberating me....

Compassion and love are just symptoms of illness...like temperature of a flu...just followers of thoughts that are better not thought...

No one at home....no home...no one, what is that that now feels like weeping....

[Eloratea]

Uf...and my so called search for liberation at the end brings me to dissolving me and not liberating me....

Actually there is nothing to dissolve. It was always so and it is right now. Reality is always as it is, whatever the beliefs may be.

Compassion and love are just symptoms of illness...like temperature of a flu...just followers of thoughts that are better not thought...

Feeling I guess you talk about. Compassion and love may actually get the new meaning, new flavor. And thoughts also continue, but in a bit different manner.

No one at home....no home...no one, what is that that now feels like weeping....

It is just feeling. Feel fully whatever arises. Don't wave story about it, just feel the energy.
Let this sink a bit, than write tomorrow how it is.

Warm regards!

[Zmay]

I woke up this morning and a dream about roman soldier and fighting stopped and almost immediatly the dream of me begune. I had a feeling like a horse been dismounted and then mounted again and sporned by "me"...It was such a helpless feeling...the ilusion is so strong....well only difference is the knoledge...the knowing of beeing mounted by something is, was there. Mostly that is not reckognised...also a sensing that there is a little gap beetween what is and the horsmen. Like when you look for a little gap in a oyster where you can put the knive and force it open.

But no knive, no seeing, no change. Also yesterday I watched very carefully what happens when "I" command my hand....the hand moves left-right, left right....and "I" have comanded just the begining...a funny feeling, a hand behaving almost at an own will....without comand.

The understanding about more complex things eludes me...I see how often the body is autonomas, but when it is with something that has like a plan...for example I rumble inside about change of work, weighting the pros and cons...and then come to a conclusion and then steps are taken in that direction...the body does not it on herself, it comes not out of thin air??? is it?

Well of course I can say that without the mad horseman the whole thing becomes unimportant and probablly it would not even arise as something to solve. It's just .. man am I tired...that rumbeling is worning me down....

Love, thanx and a nice day...I'll be back :)

[Eloratea]

The understanding about more complex things eludes me...I see how often the body is autonomous, but when it is with something that has like a plan...for example I rumble inside about change of work, weighting the pros and cons...and then come to a conclusion and then steps are taken in that direction...the body does not it on herself, it comes not out of thin air??? is it?

It comes where all thoughts come from. And all thoughts are like sub-programs of greater programs determining human behavior. It is also called conditioning. Some of those programs are necessary for functioning, some not. „You“ have been trained through society and family „how“ to think. But, thoughts don't belong to anyone. They are not owned by anyone.

And the only place and time where de-programming or liberation may happen is here, now!
Can you see that in actual experience there is only this, 5 senses and thinking. Thoughts also trigger what we call sensations and emotions. So any thoughts you may have that things are different, are again just thoughts. Just look into actual experience. See that there are thoughts, coming and going and that their content is not reality. Not to be believed unconditionally.

Till later,
be well.

You may also read this nicely written article:
http://www.uncoveringlife.com/absence-of-myself/

[Zmay]

See that there are thoughts, coming and going and that their content is not reality. Not to be believed unconditionally.

Yes there is a knot that should be cut through. And as I try to see what is to be belived and not, what is necessary and what not...I use the same process that rides me...and again I'm the donkey (nothing against donkey's :)).

One more thing...often it happens when I is half seen through that thought arrise...what is so nice in here and now...look it's so boring...instead you could fantasise with me about....whatsoever...or go and do something fun or really important....etc. It happens mostly when the space is seen or at least felt...what to do then? Maybe a wrong question...how not to do then, how not fall into the hole....

Now I go read the article...have a nice day....