belladonna123 this is thread is for you

[Shell]

Rest assured, dear Karen, that you are doing great homework.
Rest assured, dear Karen, that you are worth every second of my effort and time, for as long as you feel you need it.
You do not need to thank me for my patience. I feel blessed in this encounter with you, too. xxxx OK ?

Rest assured, dear Karen, that you do not need faith or belief in yourself, that you can do this SEEING thing.
I hold the 100% faith in you (that you seem to feel that you lack in yourself at times)...so when doubts arise - and they do, for all of us - remember this.

Every time you believe a thought that says, "I am too slow with this; I am not "getting this", etc, etc, etc...wel,l I dont believe them because I KNOWthey are not true of You. You'll not be abandoned and you will lose nothing and I hold 100% surety that you are dong absolutely fine and that you will SEE. OK?

No more homework for you this Sunday evening, dear Karen.

Unless, whatever you find yourself doing this evening...perhaps you would like to approach the evening's activities, whatver they are, as if you are a fresh alien on this planet. You dont know how to read or speak the language...you arrive not knowing what anything means.

And so, you see everything for the first time without a history of memory and "knowledge" to inform you. You see it really fresh, like an alien or a baby that just arrived here.

Remember sweet Karen, all we are doing is seeing through the illusion of the personal "I". All the delights of the ancient records, etc, will still be there for you if you feel that you want or need to engage with them.

Keep it very simple and very pure. No ancient history, no personal history..just SEEING what is, right now.

Remember, we are not going to get there through intellectualising. You know the answers already from the intellect and all your studies. We are going to get there through direct SEEING that I can not do for you. You can and will.

Peace and sweet dreams, dear Karen. You are NEVER alone. There are loads of us simply gunning for you!!!!!

Love, Shell

(ps,, your last post was great...but lets put it aside for tonight and come back to it in the week if you still would like to)

[Shell]

Good early morning from Europe, dear Karen,

I want to let you know that I have a particularly long day today...now it is0 7:00 and I wont be home until after midnite. So, I wont be able to reply until around 07:00 tomorrow.

Today, whatever you find yourself doing, would you like to approach the day's activities, whatver they are, as if you are a fresh alien on this planet. You dont know how to read or speak the language...you arrive not knowing what anything means.

And so, you see everything for the first time without a history of memory and "knowledge" to inform you. You see it really fresh, like an alien or a baby that just arrived here.

As you do this, apply the direct SEEING tool. The game is, you dont know what anything means or what anything is for. Of course, your mind is likely to continue to label things and tell you EXACTLY what everything is for ;-)
Let the mind do its thing...its apt to chat away non-stop. And SEE as if you were freshly landed here. If there is any chance to go for a walk in the nature, that would be fine. SEE whether everything moves without your individual direction that anything moves.

I look forward to your full reply!

Much love,
Shell

[Shell]

Hi dear Karen, midnight here and I'm really glad that you emailed me directly to let me know that you could not read any posts that I have submitted here for you in the lasgt 24 hours. If you still cant read this ongoing thread by the time you get home, please let me know, and I will try to email a site manager with the problem, OK?

Until then, much love and keep LOOKING,
Shell

[belladonna123]

Hi Shell, I actually was doing this thing the other day because there is an ACIM lesson that says, "I do not know what anything is for." So I practiced this with my bowl of jello. I never noticed how transparent jello was before. When I try to do what you suggest I feel as though obviously I can't get anything done, very helpless. It's interesting Helen Keller came to mind - being blind and deaf how she was able by the aid of a teacher learn how to communicate. Amazing! I feel like there is a lesson here with her. That is an example of a person who I think it's easier to see there is no "I" there. I know she was exceptional and spiritual too. I am thinking that maybe she did become liberated. I think it''s much easier to do that when you don't have two of your senses. Anyway, that's what is on my mind. I had a difficult weekend -very busy and a lot of arguing going on. But I have been trying to remember that I don't exist. Because I don't "see" that yet, I'm still struggling but I feel I'm making progress. Thanks! Karen

[Shell]

Hi there Karen,

Glad that you could get the log in issue sorted. Thank you for your pm's to let me know what was up, too.

Thank you,for sharing what your weekend was like...yes..it sure can feel a bit rough when there is fighting, etc, when we are still convinced that it is all happening to us, essentially because we are convinced that we ARE the body, thoughts, personality and history whicfh has been conveniently labeled as "Karen"!

Exercise: look at these three words: table, university, Batman.
Now, all of these three words are simply labels. Only one of them is a lable of something "real" (for the purpose of this exercise). Clearly, the word Batman points to something non-existant, a story figure. Look closely at the word "university". Does this word point to something exact? What does the word "university"
point to? Anything as "real" as a "table"? Does the word "university" serve a purpose? If so, what?

Exercise 2: Look at the word "I". Is it any more personal than "university"? Does the word "I" point to anything specific, like "table"?

When, in your life, did you learn that "I" was you? Work it out, look deeply. Instead of a language based on sentences like, "clouds are clouding; drops of water are falling; reading is happening; eating is happening; playing is happening (etc); a sensation of heat is felt on the skin of the body", how and when did it happen that we learnt, "I am reading"; "I am eating"; "I am playing"; and "I am uncomfortably hot! MY body feels uncomfortably warm"".

What purpose did the lable, "Karen" serve?
What ensured that you came to believe that "Karen" is WHAT YOU ARE?
How did the belief that you are "Karen" become so deeply ingrained that you dont even know anymore that it is a false belief and not true at all, but instead, absolutely true for you and of you?

Please come back to very direct looking. Leave all the wonderful stories of human achievement (you mentioned Hellen Keller) to the side for a bit, please.

You wrote that you saw that thoughts are not personal,...they just come and they go....and you wrote that you have no control over their coming and going. Is "I" not just as much an impersonal thought that comes and goes, just like all the others? Is it not just a sound, a single letter, loaded with meaning that you have been taught is TRUE?

Do individual thoughts actually think?

Please, give full answers to each of these points. No stories about others, no stories about what you have read, just pure direct looking for yourself.

You wrote, "But I have been trying to remember that I don't exist".
Try, "There has been efforting to remember that "I " DOES not exist".
What does the label "I" point to?...

Take you time and answer fully after a lot of direct looking.

Much love,
Shell

[Shell]

Hi Karen, been thinking about you so much today.

There a few questionst that I have put to you that you have not answered.
May I suggest that you print out our entire thread...and highlight the questions and instructions for exercise that you have not yet answered?

And then, really do the exercises as instructed...and really answer the questions with your answers (not theories, not mind wandering about stuff you have read - no matter how inspiring much of it is).

The same with my most recent post. Please keep the bullet point rule of answering each question separetely and to the point.

This is for you darling, there is an excellent reason behind it. Namely, the recognition very directly of your own enlightenment or liberation,. Thats what we are doing here together with you and for you.

If you need a few days, that is absolutely fine. You dont need to try and do it all at once. It is not even helpful to. One step at a time. Perhaps go back chronologically through this post and discover which exercise you have not really done with great focus...and which questions you have not specifically answered. And try to address at least one each day and report back one each day.

We need to keep our focus here. I ask the questions....and you answer them. This will be very constructive and helpful for you.

Much love,

Shell

[Shell]

Just touching base, dearest Karen, like I promised to do.
You know I have had unbelievably long work days and little sleep. So Im sure you will forgive me if I go to bed now.

But, I go to bed with you in my heart. Please write as soon as you can with what you have to say. xxxxxxx

Much love, Shell

[belladonna123]

Exercise: look at these three words: table, university, Batman.
Now, all of these three words are simply labels. Only one of them is a lable of something "real" (for the purpose of this exercise). Clearly, the word Batman points to something non-existant, a story figure. Look closely at the word "university". Does this word point to something exact? What does the word "university"
point to? Anything as "real" as a "table"? Does the word "university" serve a purpose? If so, what?

University points to a group of things/concepts - teachers, students, classrooms, classes so the word does not point to something as exact or as definitive as a table. The label university is used to combine things and concepts together so it is easier to understand and is used in order to distinguish one group of things, concepts, etc. for another.

Exercise 2: Look at the word "I". Is it any more personal than "university"? Does the word "I" point to anything specific, like "table"?

No, it is not more personal than university and it does not point to anything specific. It is supposed to point to a thing (body/mind) and individual concepts (thoughts).

When, in your life, did you learn that "I" was you? Work it out, look deeply. Instead of a language based on sentences like, "clouds are clouding; drops of water are falling; reading is happening; eating is happening; playing is happening (etc); a sensation of heat is felt on the skin of the body", how and when did it happen that we learnt, "I am reading"; "I am eating"; "I am playing"; and "I am uncomfortably hot! MY body feels uncomfortably warm"".

I can't remember how old I was when that happened, but I know by age 4 I already was identified with the personal "I" thought. When my daughter was a baby, I would point to her and say, "Alex" and point to myself and say "mama". Then of course I would call her by that name and by the time she got into school her teachers were teaching her to write and speak proper English,e.g. "I am happy", "You are sad". So we learn we are a separate I from everyone else.

What purpose did the lable, "Karen" serve?
What ensured that you came to believe that "Karen" is WHAT YOU ARE?
How did the belief that you are "Karen" become so deeply ingrained that you dont even know anymore that it is a false belief and not true at all, but instead, absolutely true for you and of you?

To live in this world we have to have names to distinguish one from another. We can't say, "That body move here," "This body sit down!" In order to go to school, go to work, etc. we need individual names so that we don't mix each other up and we can judge what and how everyone is doing. My environment ensured that I believe Karen is what I am. There isn't anything I can think of that doesn't serve to ingrain this belief in me.

You wrote that you saw that thoughts are not personal,...they just come and they go....and you wrote that you have no control over their coming and going. Is "I" not just as much an impersonal thought that comes and goes, just like all the others? Is it not just a sound, a single letter, loaded with meaning that you have been taught is TRUE?

Yes, I can see that "I" is just a thought. I just had the realization that if this is true, then if a negative thought came into my mind I didn't have to believe that thought at all like, "It's going to be very hard for me to awaken, I'm just not good/clever enough." This makes me happy, all I have to do is dismiss the thoughts that aren't loving.

Do individual thoughts actually think?

No, thoughts don't think.

You wrote, "But I have been trying to remember that I don't exist".
Try, "There has been efforting to remember that "I " DOES not exist".
What does the label "I" point to?...

The label I points to an individual consciousness or awareness that is separate from anything/anyone else.

Love, Karen

[belladonna123]

Just touching base, dearest Karen, like I promised to do.
You know I have had unbelievably long work days and little sleep. So Im sure you will forgive me if I go to bed now.

But, I go to bed with you in my heart. Please write as soon as you can with what you have to say. xxxxxxx

Much love, Shell

I feel so badly that you have to work so hard Shell. I just prayed for you. I believe in prayer even if I'm just praying to myself. oops I forgot there is no "myself"! Karen

[belladonna123]

Hi Karen, been thinking about you so much today.

There a few questionst that I have put to you that you have not answered.
May I suggest that you print out our entire thread...and highlight the questions and instructions for exercise that you have not yet answered? And then, really do the exercises as instructed...and really answer the questions with your answers (not theories, not mind wandering about stuff you have read - no matter how inspiring much of it is).

The same with my most recent post. Please keep the bullet point rule of answering each question separetely and to the point. This is for you darling, there is an excellent reason behind it. Namely, the recognition very directly of your own enlightenment or liberation,. Thats what we are doing here together with you and for you.

If you need a few days, that is absolutely fine. You dont need to try and do it all at once. It is not even helpful to. One step at a time. Perhaps go back chronologically through this post and discover which exercise you have not really done with great focus...and which questions you have not specifically answered. And try to address at least one each day and report back one each day.

We need to keep our focus here. I ask the questions....and you answer them. This will be very constructive and helpful for you.

Much love, Shell

I will go ahead and do that Shell before I go to bed tonite. I so much feel your compassion and support! Karen

[belladonna123]

Good morning, Karen,

1)

Peace as an expectation of liberation seems very reasonable...but can we even leave this expectation to the side for the moment?

Yes, I can give up that expectation.


Shell

[belladonna123]

2)And when you are done with that, look at the thoughts that continue to keep thoughting along, one after the other. And let me know exactly where this famous "I" is in all of those thoughts that just keep thoughting and thoughting along.Because I can not find it.

I cannot find the I in any thought I have either.

OK; so the brain feels like it is going to explode. Where do you get the proof from that it is your brain? What is telling you that it is your brain, and why are you believing something that you have been told, without checking whether it is true for you or not?

I have no proof that it is "my" brain, although now the word "my" sounds like something imaginary if there is no I. I've been taught since childhood, this is "my" body.

[belladonna123]

But I feel like the I should be my thoughts, feelings, opinions.

Well dear, the thoughts and feelings and opions that run through this body and mind each 24 hours day would add up to abuot a million in ever changing variety. Give or take a few hundred thousand. So this theory just does not work...and plus...it is just theory or a story and not real. If you are the thoughts, feelings and opionions running through the body and mind..well then "you" are new and entirely different every half second or so of linear time. Nope...not accepting that answer for you or anyone. But dont take my word for it. Never do that. Look, really, really, really look, and see if it is true for you, too. And report back to me on this.

I have been trying to find "Karen" or "me" or "I". If my legs and arms were cut off, people would still consider me Karen. If I was disfigured and unrecognizable, I'd still be considered Karen. Even if I were to get a brain transplant, id be considered Karen. In the eyes of the world Karen is a person born in a specific time/place to a specific family. But no, there's nowhere specifically I cd point to and say this is Karen or me or I. That is something to think about....I can't possibly be my opinions or beliefs or thoughts because as you said they change all the time. The more I think about this, the more I can't believe that I ever thought I was my thoughts/beliefs. Sounds pretty stupid.

Continue a little further with this one: close eyed, find whether or not there is a border to be sensed between the surface of the skin...and the air or space. Report what you dis-cover from this exercise.

No, there is no border. Hmmm, what is that supposed to mean? That there's nothing distinguishing my body from air? Can you please explain?

Please, dear Karen, look at thought. Very closely but without strain. Just like looking at a hand. Just look. Notice everyting about thought. Notice where it comes from, Notice to where each thought goes. Notice what thought is. Should your attention wander, should you get caught up in a story, please bring your attention back to the task at hand. Dont skip over this exercise lightly. We need you to put all of your heart into it. Do this exercise as often as you can during the coming day and evening. And report back.

I am trying to do this as much as possible at work. I will try to still my mind and then a thought comes from nowhere about something I need to do later when I get home. Or someone will walk by and then I'll start to think of them. If I am relaxed and lying down at home, sometimes out of nowhere, I'll remember a dream I had the night before. (which is kind of cool) Anyway, it is obvious I have no control.

[belladonna123]

No, there is no DISTINCT border between any of these things.

So, is there an indistict border? What informs you that there is a border at all?
Please answer in full. Go deep and find out.

Probably not, it seems like air or space is the only thing between objects.

Questions: are thoughts REALLY personal? Can you control them? Whether they come and stay or come and go? Are you controlling or giving birth to all of those endless thoughts? If they do appear to be personal to you...what MAKES thought personal? Look hard for the answer to this.

I think I answered this before, but I just thought of something. What about when I say something and a friend says, "I was thinking the same thing!" This is proof thoughts aren't personal, right?

play, through direct exercise, NOT thinking about it, with the idea of or whether there is even anyone even watching or sensing or seeing or feeling.
What is truer: 1) there is only seeing and the seen happening simultaneously?
2) there is a seer, seeing the seen simultaneously?


I'm not sure how to play with this without thinking about it. Can you help me with this? 1) would be truer since in order for there to be a seer there needs to be an I?

[belladonna123]

Hi Shell, first I just realized I never answered your question re: breathing in the last post. I can see that I have no control over the fact that I breathe. FYI-I am posting in color because now that I am re-replying to the posts I didn't want you to get confused.

Unless, whatever you find yourself doing this evening...perhaps you would like to approach the evening's activities, whatver they are, as if you are a fresh alien on this planet. You dont know how to read or speak the language...you arrive not knowing what anything means. And so, you see everything for the first time without a history of memory and "knowledge" to inform you. You see it really fresh, like an alien or a baby that just arrived here. Keep it very simple and very pure. No ancient history, no personal history..just SEEING what is, right now.
Remember, we are not going to get there through intellectualising. You know the answers already from the intellect and all your studies. We are going to get there through direct SEEING that I can not do for you. You can and will.

OK, when I tried this I noticed a lot more than I usually do. I watched how the water in my water bottle moved when I moved it. I realize that there has to be a lot of trial and error with this, to know what and what not to eat, drink, touch, etc.