Time to head back home

[s-p-a-c-e]

Hi Ray,

Just to address the laziness point. :) I learned this technique from one of the wisest guys on the planet - there is no high wisdom than one's own. The first time I did this exercise, after the fourth question, the guy I was working with had to go for a walk. He couldn't stand the intensity of his own questions. They are laser sharp.

Best wishes,
John

[s-p-a-c-e]

Hi Ray,

Laughing out loud here.

This is a serious business I'll have you know. :D

I am (part of) the field of awareness. Consciousness looking at itself.

These are words as you point out. Interesting though - can anything be part such a field of awareness - were one to exist?

No need to answer, just ponder and respond if something comes up.

I guess you want more words than that.

Only what occurs. :)

I was on my walk earlier.
Whilst walking my thinking was this...
Looking at nature it doesn't make sense to say "I am looking at nature", because I am part of nature. So it makes more sense to say "I am part of nature looking at nature", or "This is nature looking at nature". This was thought not felt.
I stood still and tried to do what I'd done years before; letting my sense of self subside so that seeing becomes more like feeling and being. I couldn't let go enough to to enter that state.

Your "what's the most important question to ask yourself" post was picked it up and replied to on my phone while out walking.
When I replied I (swore at you) and asked myself the question "who am I?"
Looking at nature I knew that I already knew the answer. I thought the words "I am consciousness looking at itself" before "I" felt them. "I" subsided and felt myself as part of the scene. The world took on an aspect of clarity as I saw without a sense of self
I was laughing out loud, mingled with a few tears.

That's far too simple Ray, couldn't possibly stick.

My favourite parlour game is choosing a thought and trying to identify with it. Try like hell. You'll never do it.
"I" is a good one to try.

Having been here before I wait to see if this will stick. But there's a simple feeling inside that feels fixed.

Who can wait when there's no-one to wait and no time in which to wait.

I do think you've been rather lazy in asking so few questions though :))

May I refer you to my previous remark M'lord.

Warmest wishes,
John

[ray]

Hi John,

Thank you for your guidance.
It is clear that it's not all done yet. There's been a deep feeling, but still a sense of "I" in the middle of it.
The use of the personal pronoun "I" in my last post was meant to be using conventional language to describe what was felt. Reading it back, I see lots of I's

I will only be honest here, apart from the occasional bit of humour. Got to look again. Please wait for my post tomorrow. Not going to philosophise here. It has to come from feeling.

With kindness,

Ray.

[s-p-a-c-e]

Hi Ray,

Hi John,

Thank you for your guidance.
It is clear that it's not all done yet. There's been a deep feeling, but still a sense of "I" in the middle of it.
The use of the personal pronoun "I" in my last post was meant to be using conventional language to describe what was felt. Reading it back, I see lots of I's

I will only be honest here, apart from the occasional bit of humour. Got to look again. Please wait for my post tomorrow. Not going to philosophise here. It has to come from feeling.

With kindness,

Ray.

It's fun to catch the sense of "I" and to shift the focus and see it for the sensation it is - without the "I" label, or the belief that is it who we are. When the focus is shifted like this, the sensation become ever more transparent. Each time, very much like clouds passing through.

Like your sense of humour Ray. :)

Yes, feeling is where it's at.

All the best,
John

[ray]

Hi John,

Thanks for sticking with this. The noise from this end must be like the babblings of an idiot trying to see the non-existence of something that isn't there.

There has been a shift, which could deepen and stick. So please let me know if the following statements are on target...

This, here, is this personality typing to your personaility.

In spiritual language people use different words to describe the same things or slightly different aspects of the same "thing", Prescence, Oneness, the Self beyond the self. But there is no "I", no self as a completely separate concept in any of them.

Is this section of a poem I wrote a few years ago "on the money"?
- "Trust your mind and steer it straight, to guide, not judge and find.
-Trust your voice to speak your truth, to liberate not bind.
-In stillness, trust.
-In silence, sit
-your depth within to find.
-And in that depth you'll know your Self.
-One love, one trust, one mind"

As for the "field of awareness", well a field is either a field or it's not a field. I was standing in one only the other day. Even a part of the field still has the same field-ness.

At school the teacher says "re-write that paragraph without using the word 'and' ". Here it seems one should think and feel, and write, about things without using the concept "I".

And so to the "I" thing. I dug out something which came form within after a few beers one evening. It was a few years before I read "The Power of Now" by Tolle. It now appears that in some places where I should have written "mind" there was "self". Also where it should have said "real" it said "me".
Here it is slightly shortened and with the changes in italics,

- "What can you do to make it easier to see?
Well the real answer is nothing.
There may be some things which can be done to help you see what sort of thing it is,
but who who knows when you might see it

Understand that you are your body. Every minute of the day,
wherever your mind may be wandering in memories of the past
or plans for the future, where you really are and what you really are is your body.
Focus on your body and say "This is real"

Wherever the body may be or whatever it is doing, there is the mind
Focus on your mind and think "This is real"

Understand that the concept of 'self' is property of the mind.
Because you don't have real harmony betwwen body and mind these stresses are projected onto the self.
They add to the self's striving and struggling in the world.
Focus on the self that strives and imagine " This is not real"
==========================================

So again that question,
who am I?
I am the self that strives and struggles. that wants to be something, that only exists due to feeling separate from the world. I am a story, untimately unreal.

John,
You can tell that I 'm not quite there yet. Perhaps standing at the brink, or near the brink. And what's brought me here. I can't help but feel it's that little struggling guy, and of course you with your infernal questions!

What happens next. Well it is looking at the self, seeing it for the fiction it is.
That will be the end of his world. The end of my world. That little self will die. But the personality will still be here. what is real will stay.
"I" can't help but feel sorry for him, we've been through such a lot together and really "I" do love that little guy even with his faults, just as I love my pussy cat even though she turns into atiny tiger sometimes.
I wish there was something that could be done for him, I'm weeping for him now, but things need to move forward.

So ask me the next question. Tell me to look.

Regards,
Ray

[s-p-a-c-e]

Hi Ray,

Hi John,

Thanks for sticking with this. The noise from this end must be like the babblings of an idiot trying to see the non-existence of something that isn't there.

hahaha. Quite.

There has been a shift, which could deepen and stick. So please let me know if the following statements are on target...

Awareness will answer or not. ;)

This, here, is this personality typing to your personaility.

In spiritual language people use different words to describe the same things or slightly different aspects of the same "thing", Prescence, Oneness, the Self beyond the self. But there is no "I", no self as a completely separate concept in any of them.

Is this section of a poem I wrote a few years ago "on the money"?
- "Trust your mind and steer it straight, to guide, not judge and find.
-Trust your voice to speak your truth, to liberate not bind.
-In stillness, trust.
-In silence, sit
-your depth within to find.
-And in that depth you'll know your Self.
-One love, one trust, one mind"

The feeling from this was heavy on the ownership. There's no ownership. I know there's artistic licence but we're not just counting the "I"s and the "your"s here. It's feeling between the lines.

As for the "field of awareness", well a field is either a field or it's not a field. I was standing in one only the other day. Even a part of the field still has the same field-ness.

Not commenting, because don't want to get into concepts. Not important for this seeing.

At school the teacher says "re-write that paragraph without using the word 'and' ". Here it seems one should think and feel, and write, about things without using the concept "I".

"I" is just a convention.

And so to the "I" thing. I dug out something which came form within after a few beers one evening. It was a few years before I read "The Power of Now" by Tolle. It now appears that in some places where I should have written "mind" there was "self". Also where it should have said "real" it said "me".
Here it is slightly shortened and with the changes in italics,

- "What can you do to make it easier to see?
Well the real answer is nothing.
There may be some things which can be done to help you see what sort of thing it is,
but who who knows when you might see it

Understand that you are your body. Every minute of the day,
wherever your mind may be wandering in memories of the past
or plans for the future, where you really are and what you really are is your body.
Focus on your body and say "This is real"

Wherever the body may be or whatever it is doing, there is the mind
Focus on your mind and think "This is real"

Understand that the concept of 'self' is property of the mind.
Because you don't have real harmony betwwen body and mind these stresses are projected onto the self.
They add to the self's striving and struggling in the world.
Focus on the self that strives and imagine " This is not real"
==========================================

Again, would rather not get into concepts of this or that. That is not where this is. The mind is the known; this is the unknown in which everything is immersed.

So again that question,
who am I?
I am the self that strives and struggles. that wants to be something, that only exists due to feeling separate from the world. I am a story, untimately unreal.

Here's the thing. There's this really good story called "Ray'. Now, apparently, the person who was born with this name, around 2/3 years, constructed the "Ray" story, supported by everyone around (social-conditioning). Then, they did this thing called "identification". Which, according to legend, meant that the person thought they were this story called "Ray". Such is the power of this "identification".

So the story goes.

And yet, have you tried to identify with a thought? Still not managed it. Have you tried to identify with no-Ray? Just as silly huh?

John,
You can tell that I 'm not quite there yet. Perhaps standing at the brink, or near the brink. And what's brought me here. I can't help but feel it's that little struggling guy, and of course you with your infernal questions!

You are my guide Ray. That's one story. I am your guide. Another story. They are not my questions. You apparently bring them forth with your comments/questions. It's all folly and form.

What happens next. Well it is looking at the self, seeing it for the fiction it is.
That will be the end of his world. The end of my world. That little self will die. But the personality will still be here. what is real will stay.

The little self doesn't die really. You just withdraw your consent to believe it is you. After which, "you" disappear too.

"I" can't help but feel sorry for him, we've been through such a lot together and really "I" do love that little guy even with his faults, just as I love my pussy cat even though she turns into atiny tiger sometimes.
I wish there was something that could be done for him, I'm weeping for him now, but things need to move forward.

:)

So ask me the next question. Tell me to look.

Nowhere to go.

[ray]

Hi John,

Thanks

On the drive home from work something very simple happened. "I" was looking for this I inside and couldn't find it. Instead there was a space. It was like a troublesome splinter had fallen out and there was just the space where it had been. Only with "I" it was not only not there but there was the awareness that it had never had any real existence in the first place. It was only maintained by energy that I had invested in it to maintain it.
I can't grieve for the little self because he never had any real existance. It was only an idea.

No trumpet sounds, no fireworks. This is so obvious and so simple. It's amazing that I haven't seen it earlier.

Previously I'd been concerned that this personality would be abruptly different. Instead it is the same, but without the baggage of that "I".
I took my daugthers out for a curry this evening. One of them had had a bad day at work. It was so much easier to comfort her and fill the bad feelings of her day with some nice time with her sister and I. They noticed no real difference in their dad. Still the same daft sense of humour.

Thanks for your help in pointing me here.

Warmest regards,

Ray

[s-p-a-c-e]

Hi Ray,

Hi John,

Thanks

On the drive home from work something very simple happened. "I" was looking for this I inside and couldn't find it. Instead there was a space. It was like a troublesome splinter had fallen out and there was just the space where it had been. Only with "I" it was not only not there but there was the awareness that it had never had any real existence in the first place. It was only maintained by energy that I had invested in it to maintain it.
I can't grieve for the little self because he never had any real existance. It was only an idea.

No trumpet sounds, no fireworks. This is so obvious and so simple. It's amazing that I haven't seen it earlier.

Previously I'd been concerned that this personality would be abruptly different. Instead it is the same, but without the baggage of that "I".
I took my daugthers out for a curry this evening. One of them had had a bad day at work. It was so much easier to comfort her and fill the bad feelings of her day with some nice time with her sister and I. They noticed no real difference in their dad. Still the same daft sense of humour.

Thanks for your help in pointing me here.

Warmest regards,

Ray

Ahhhh, yes. You opened the door and said, "come in". :)

"No trumpet sounds, no fireworks. This is so obvious and so simple. It's amazing that I haven't seen it earlier."

Trumpet sounds are only on weekends.

Yes, so obvious and so simple. *hearts rises* :)

Enjoy Ray and share with me tomorrow.

With my warmest wishes,
John

[ray]

Hi John,

Today was a breeze. In every interaction with people there was no I in the middle to clash with them. It was a busy day for me, but stress free because I was just doing the work rather than reacting and wanting things to be different or easier for me.

Whenever I used "I" or "me" in a sentence it felt odd. Maybe our language isn't equiped to express this way of being. It occured to me that one could use "one" instead of "I", but that would sound too much like Prince Charles, which would equally be odd.

It is pleasantly different to not be tied back to an anchor with a false sense of self. Something is missing and that something is where all the cop out, bullshit and occasionaly behaving like a jerk used to reside. It's a bit surprising that the only sense of self is that false one. I kind of expected a real self in the background. This body, mind and personality are still in some sense me, or should that be not not-me. At this point words don't quite fit.

I went for a walk at lunchtime and world was as ordinary as can be, and so was I. No feeling of being special or unusual, in fact I felt more ordinary. The world felt just like it does normally when one isn't stewing about future plans or past problems.

Before my post yesterday a fun thing happened. At work there's a retina scanner to get into the computer room. I looked into it and the disembodied female voice said "Identification is completed". Then as I walked past it triggered again and said "We are sorry, you are not identified" :-)
It was lovely, and that was before my sense of "I" evaporated on the drive home.

Anyway this is still quite new. If it was a computer game I'm on level 1 of Life+, the free copy you get on the magazine cover. Quite happy to get used to this for a while.

A qoute for you " When the best leader's work is done the people all say "We did it ourselves!" - Lao Tzu

Thanks for your wisdom and kindness.
With heart felt blessings

Ray

[s-p-a-c-e]

Hi Ray,

Hi John,

Today was a breeze. In every interaction with people there was no I in the middle to clash with them. It was a busy day for me, but stress free because I was just doing the work rather than reacting and wanting things to be different or easier for me.

Can I afford a leap into the air? :)

Anyway this is still quite new. If it was a computer game I'm on level 1 of Life+, the free copy you get on the magazine cover. Quite happy to get used to this for a while.

A qoute for you " When the best leader's work is done the people all say "We did it ourselves!" - Lao Tzu

Thanks for your wisdom and kindness.
With heart felt blessings

Ray

It's a new beginning...

With warmest wishes,
John

[ray]

Hi John,

Can I afford a leap into the air? :)

After work I was feeling slightly less "on". I went for a drink by the canal with my wife earlier this evening and stopped and looked at the reflections on the water. The view looked sparkling and new. As this feeling deepened there was a comforting voice in my head that said "I am here". "NO you're not!" I replied. Seems like the little guy was trying to sneak back in. I've seen and the seeing is not just a memory.

During the day I was aware of how much I'm present in the here and now. It feels like I'm back home, wherever I happen to be. I did have a dialogue in my head, but it was descriptive of my alive experience. Mostly about what how I mignt express the day's experience to you.
At one point I tried an experiment to see how old, distressing memories made me feel. There was no space for them to fit in.

Leap a little :-)) I'm smiling. It's great to have you there.

Warmest regards,

Ray

[s-p-a-c-e]

Lovely. I'm with you Ray. :) It's like a rose unfolding. It's not seen and then you look later, and "Oh!"

Hi John,

Can I afford a leap into the air? :)

After work I was feeling slightly less "on". I went for a drink by the canal with my wife earlier this evening and stopped and looked at the reflections on the water. The view looked sparkling and new. As this feeling deepened there was a comforting voice in my head that said "I am here". "NO you're not!" I replied. Seems like the little guy was trying to sneak back in. I've seen and the seeing is not just a memory.

During the day I was aware of how much I'm present in the here and now. It feels like I'm back home, wherever I happen to be. I did have a dialogue in my head, but it was descriptive of my alive experience. Mostly about what how I mignt express the day's experience to you.
At one point I tried an experiment to see how old, distressing memories made me feel. There was no space for them to fit in.

Leap a little :-)) I'm smiling. It's great to have you there.

Warmest regards,

Ray

[ray]

Hi John,

Yesterday while I was walking the question "who am I?" seemed a very odd thing to ask and
difficult to give an accurate response to.

This morning I was working from home (or not working from home!) for a while.
As I lay in bed I pondered the following. 1) and 2) below I already understood.

1) Attachment to physical objects.
To say that I am this or I am that because of something I own, because of attachment to a
physical object does not make sense. For instance, if I say I'm a cool guy because I have a
cool car (or that I'm not cool bacause I haven't got a cool car) that is attachment to a
physical object. It is an illusion, a falsehood.

2) Attachment to mental objects.
To say I am this or that because of attachemnet to an idea about myself that is also false.
For instance if I say I'm defined as "someone who isn't very materialistic" that is an idea, a
label about myself. It is a mental object, something I hold myself back with and limit myself
by. That again is an illusion, a falsehood.

3) Attachment to self.
The concept of self, and thereby the concept of no-self, is an idea, a construct, a thought, a
mental object. It is the story of all the good and bad things that have happened in my life.
Because of 2) above, to say that I am defined by my idea of self, or no-self, is an illusion, a
falsehood.

That in words, is what I felt and saw wordlessly as I was drive home on a dual carriageway 2
days ago. Driving at 60 mph it hit me with all the (lack of) impact of remembering where I'd
left my house keys. It simply made sense.

When my wife woke I told her the 1), 2) and 3) above.
She said, "So you don't exist."
"Yes," I said, "that's right, but I'm still here".

She went down to make a cup of tea.
On returning she said "Oh! So that also means we are not defined by our relationship with others."
I thought about it and we both agreed "No we aren't defined by our relationships with others."

Curiously, despite all the foregoing I'll still have a normal relationship with my wife, still
enjoy a few drinks down the pub and continue having fun riding my motorcycle.


So to that question again.

Who am I?

No answer. As the retina scanner said "We are sorry, you are not identified"

I have woken from the illusion of identification with self
and I have woken from the illusion of identification with no-self.


In simplicity and openness,

Ray.

[ray]

Dear Friend,

One further thought.

Although we are not defined by our relationships with others
I choose to believe that we ARE defined by the quality of our relationships with others.

Pigs and fishes,

Ray

[s-p-a-c-e]

Hi Ray,

I've read your previous post too. Lovely, lovely stuff. Now you know why those zen folks say, "Nothing special".

Must get myself a retina identification unit. LOL :)

Dear Friend,

One further thought.

Although we are not defined by our relationships with others
I choose to believe that we ARE defined by the quality of our relationships with others.

Pigs and fishes,

Ray

Can you choose anything? Where does choosing start?

Choose between RED and BLUE.

Notice what happens - if it can be caught. Can it?

With best wishes,
John