Ready

[Justina]

Hi.

So this is where it´s at, at the moment.

"one can't have expectation of the unknown, because how would you know what to look for? This is memory trying to steer you forward."
"you are focusing on some internal experience, some visualization, and you are checking for some feeling, and your internal dialogue is saying "no, not yet, I don't think so, WTF!, come on already, maybe it's never going to happen" and then more thought is visualizin
you are stuck in your own process of expecting/disproving."


This is exactly it. So good that you pointed this out. How can I get past this? It seems so big, and sneaks it´s way in the most subtle ways. After I read this yesterday there was a "aha", so simple. It´s just this. It´s takes so much more to imagine this self and time, so it is so strange that this so simple and efortless is not seen. Great relief...and then mind back telling about how wonderful that I saw that. I worked with this almost all night, did not get much sleep. What felt clear for a moment was that this imagination about me, time, all stories about what should happen, what´s going to happen, what has happened is in the way of this simple truth..that it´s obvious without rhe imagination. The "mind" want´s to KNOW,and make this in to something . Also that this I was actually never present, thoughts and imagination is never now.


"NOW....take all of that, and that can be observed. All of this is going on after the fact, and you know this, and are working with this. So turn around inside yourself and look inside and see if there is an "I" that can be found, that is not-all-that. Close your eyes, and look inside. What do you get?"


All I got was this, what is.


"Be good with "there is nothing to gain, and no-one to gain it". If you have a reaction to this, run with it."


Im good with this, but I don´t know if it is thought thinking "it´s good with it" because it knows that would be the "best thing to be good with" at the moment .


"Now try to find the no-unicorn with your strategy, look for it, and please explain to me why you can't find the no-unicorn."

It can´t be found because it doesn´t exist, and it has never existed. It was only in imagination.
What was funny was that the unicorn was more real than myself last night. But this "me" is still here, seems to just run on automatic.


Thank you again,
much love.

[SeeEye]

"one can't have expectation of the unknown, because how would you know what to look for? This is memory trying to steer you forward."
"you are focusing on some internal experience, some visualization, and you are checking for some feeling, and your internal dialogue is saying "no, not yet, I don't think so, WTF!, come on already, maybe it's never going to happen" and then more thought is visualizin
you are stuck in your own process of expecting/disproving."


This is exactly it. So good that you pointed this out. How can I get past this? It seems so big, and sneaks it´s way in the most subtle ways. After I read this yesterday there was a "aha", so simple. It´s just this. It´s takes so much more to imagine this self and time, so it is so strange that this so simple and efortless is not seen. Great relief...and then mind back telling about how wonderful that I saw that. I worked with this almost all night, did not get much sleep. What felt clear for a moment was that this imagination about me, time, all stories about what should happen, what´s going to happen, what has happened is in the way of this simple truth..that it´s obvious without rhe imagination. The "mind" want´s to KNOW,and make this in to something . Also that this I was actually never present, thoughts and imagination is never now.

How big is a thought?

Why do you have to get past it?

The human thinks, and takes in information through the 5 senses, because that is what it does and how it works. Nothing to get past, just see that there is no "self" to take ownership, and no ownership needed. No ownership needed, but thought tells you otherwise.

It can´t be found because it doesn´t exist, and it has never existed. It was only in imagination.
What was funny was that the unicorn was more real than myself last night. But this "me" is still here, seems to just run on automatic.

You will always be able to assemble the "me" in thought...but that doesn't mean it exists outside of thought. Just look....no "self" in there, just chains of thoughts.

I get the impression that you have an expectation of some super duper "state" where there is no thinking, some magickal unification with everything, or some type of preconception that allows you to keep saying "this is not it".

Imagine that you were dropped off on an island, and all you had was what you could take with from these interchanges. Would you have enough to work from, or is thought going to keep saying "but there is this "me" here....persistently keeping you from the truth.

Be rigorous with this. Stop expecting something...it has always been such, regardless of what thought does on top of it.

[Justina]

"How big is a thought? "

A thought is just a thought. It being big or small is just another thought.

"Why do you have to get past it?"


Caught Up in the thoughts, it fels real. But of course it is just another thought, nothing to get past.


"I get the impression that you have an expectation of some super duper "state" where there is no thinking, some magickal unification with everything, or some type of preconception that allows you to keep saying "this is not it"."

Something like that.

"Imagine that you were dropped off on an island, and all you had was what you could take with from these interchanges. Would you have enough to work from, or is thought going to keep saying "but there is this "me" here....persistently keeping you from the truth. "


I have enough, more Than enough..
Feeling a bit retarded now. If i say something it Will just be repeating. What more can be said.

"Be rigorous with this. Stop expecting something...it has always been such, regardless of what thought does on top of it.[/quote]


The mind says,yes now we really really need to work with this, to see this. But this is bs. Im afraid a state Will be created just to get of the hook . I' m at the end of my rope.

[SeeEye]

The mind says,yes now we really really need to work with this, to see this. But this is bs. Im afraid a state Will be created just to get of the hook . I' m at the end of my rope.

States and moods come and go, understanding will stay.

What is the hook? You aren't going to lose anything at all. You are feeling retarded/petulent/frustrated....?

That's good. Just keep answering and looking. Not quick answers, but really sit down and look into this.

"Who" inside is so upset?

What so far has somewhat clicked? Go back through the discussion and make note of those things in a notebook if you have to. This way you can summarize for yourself where you are. Is that fair?

[Justina]

"What is the hook? You aren't going to lose anything at all. You are feeling retarded/petulent/frustrated....?
That's good. Just keep answering and looking. Not quick answers, but really sit down and look into this."

Yes, frustrated I can´t see the obvious. Thought saying I can´t get pass the mind. But that is just a thought. There is nothing to get past. How to get pass a thought? That is impossible. What would get passed it? Just another thought.


"Who" inside is so upset?"

Noone, just thoughts and feelings.


This inquiry seems to have taken life on it´s on and goes on automatic. It feels like the belief is dropping slowly. Something has shifted and the the feeling of not having a "center" anymore. The thoughts arises in the same place/way as everything else. The me is created by thoughts.

[SeeEye]

Thought is saying more than that....judging, measuring, comparing.

There is no need to get past the mind, just let it do what it does. You are right in saying it's just another thought.

How does not having a "center" feel? Let's stick to regular-speak if possible.

This might help: You can reason this out up to a point, then you have to recognize, and this comes from beyond thought.

Exercise: Just look at any object. Stay very present, and let looking happen without thinking and without internal dialogue. Notice how seeing happens on its own, without a "doer" of "self" at all. Then watch thinking start. It will name the object then go off on whatever tangent it wants. There is always a gap, a silence before thought. Then a feeling might pop up, and thought will label and add "meaning" to this. Before that just sensation and silence. While you are looking at objects, the longer the gap becomes, the more no-self is just there. Awareness is aware, without an owner. The only way you have an owner is for thought to start and tell you about it.

The only way you have an owner is for thought to start and tell you about it.

The only way you have an owner is for thought to start and tell you about it.

The only way you have an owner is for thought to start and tell you about it.

NOW: Look you a "me" in the gap, in the silence. You don't find anything, just silence. Now how can you go into silent emptiness and find something that is not there? You cannot see it, because it is not there, and it's very obvious that it is not there, so the only realization is that nothing was ever there, and to stop expecting something to be there. And quit listening to thought make up stories about shit it knows nothing about.

Let me know how it goes...

Much love to you

[Justina]

Hi. I got logged out so my answer disappeared. I´ll make a new try.

"How does not having a "center" feel? Let's stick to regular-speak if possible."

What I meant was that this feeling of "I" being inside the body. Feels more open and spacious, not fixed anywhere.

"This might help: You can reason this out up to a point, then you have to recognize, and this comes from beyond thought."

Yes. Mind has come to the end of it i think.

"Exercise: Just look at any object. Stay very present, and let looking happen without thinking and without internal dialogue. Notice how seeing happens on its own, without a "doer" of "self" at all. Then watch thinking start. It will name the object then go off on whatever tangent it wants. There is always a gap, a silence before thought. Then a feeling might pop up, and thought will label and add "meaning" to this. Before that just sensation and silence. While you are looking at objects, the longer the gap becomes, the more no-self is just there. Awareness is aware, without an owner. The only way you have an owner is for thought to start and tell you about it."

I have been doing this. I have been looking and looking. And I will continue with this exercise. I notice, still there are expectation and waiting, but I don´t know how not to have expectations. The mind is looking for something to happen, still. It feels like it would have to be "shocked" out of the beleif somehow.


"The only way you have an owner is for thought to start and tell you about it."
I have been reading this over and over. Trying to understand it, the mind gets confused.

I have had the feeling of losing focus. Thoughts taking over and less awarness. Feelings of confusion and being lost.

I will continue with the looking and the exercise.

Thank you again for your time and patience.
Much Love

[SeeEye]

I have been doing this. I have been looking and looking. And I will continue with this exercise. I notice, still there are expectation and waiting, but I don´t know how not to have expectations. The mind is looking for something to happen, still. It feels like it would have to be "shocked" out of the beleif somehow.

You know those pictures of the spindle base of the table, where after you stare at it you see there are 2 faces?

Like this http://richardwiseman.files.wordpress.c ... 3/vase.jpg

You stare at this, and you are waiting to see it, because you know there is something to see. The recognition happens without there being an "I" to do it. Then thought says "Oh".

Keep doing the exercise. There is a gap, a silence, a space.....and you are looking for something in that, which is not there. Is it not obvious that it's not there? IT is an illusion of thought because thought and language tells you it's there. Unicorn is also thought and language, as is purple gorilla with wings. It doesn't matter what the mind complains and whines about, or what feelings all that movement creates.

No shock needed. It is enough to realize there is nothing fucking there, and that "I" is a concept with no-thing in reality other than the organism with it's senses and thoughts which has never needed an 'I" to do what it does. But you know it isn't the organism or the senses or thoughts....so you look, and nothing. But still waiting to see the no-self in the empty space.

The gift of the realization is what you are looking for. It may come slowly, or all at once, or flicker. Let's find out for you.

Please share what comes up.

[Justina]

Hi. Today has been a busy day. Anyway I have continued to do the practice throughout the day. As I was taking a walk in the forest something changed in perception, and sense of "I", "me", "myself" was not there, at all. It was only the seeing and sensations. And it was the same , but completly different. Could not find anyone walking, and the thought "I" or "me" didn´t make sense. This was not pleasant, There was a strong sense of dissapearing completly. And also like nothing was happening although it did. There where not much thoughts. But the ones that came where saying things like I am probably getting a psychosis. The intensity wore off and Im continuing practise. Thank you for that picture, it was cool. It was just seen, all by itself.

Love

[SeeEye]

Walking is good. Getting out just to get out is good.

As you continue with this, give yourself some extra space and acceptance and grace....be very good to yourself. It takes energy.

Psychosis: Were the emotions new emotions or old, easy to identify emotions? You are stirring the metaphorical pot pretty good with this, so just allowing what comes up some room in a welcoming way helps. Be curious, like you were watching a weird bug crawl across the driveway...just be with it and see what it's doing.

Let things settle in and keep me informed of what is going on.

Much love to you

[Justina]

"Psychosis: Were the emotions new emotions or old, easy to identify emotions? "

As I see it now it was thought trying to describe something that it could not describe. It was some anxiety, fear, wonder, ease, those feelings are easy to identify. Also there was a feeling of weightlessness and timelessness. I have had glimpses and experiences before, but not like this. Btw I have no experience of psychosis so I would have no idea how that would be like. Just thoughts saying this.

"You are stirring the metaphorical pot pretty good with this, so just allowing what comes up some room in a welcoming way helps. Be curious, like you were watching a weird bug crawl across the driveway...just be with it and see what it's doing."

Yes,ok. Thank you. I have been trying to get at least an hour a day in the forest. It seems to help.

[Justina]

Today I had similar experience while walking. But it´s not it. I don´t know what is blocking me from seeing this? Well, I do see there is no me while looking, and there is not much sense of an self being there. But still it feels like there is something missing. Have been looking throughout the day, it seems easier and eassier to relax in to it.

[SeeEye]

The experiences you are having are good, and were part of my process as well. Something is happening, and you are waiting.

Nothing is blocking you....and you can't see something that is not there. You will at some point realize that the label "I, me, self" points to nothing, because there is nothing in there. You are waiting to see air, you are looking around, starting at things, something is bubbling, and you will never ever be able to see the air. At some point, you accept that it is clear, or you accept the nothingness that has always been there, which never contained a self or needed to.

Work on that paragraph, re-write it down and then re-write in your own words. Ask yourself how you can find no-thing no-self if it is not there....take some walks, and leave it be. The seed will sprout.

Keep relaxing into it and asking the above....no effort required so don't get all tense. But if you do get all tense and frustrated, ask who in there is so frustrated, who is the owner of this tense?

[Justina]

"Nothing is blocking you....and you can't see something that is not there. You will at some point realize that the label "I, me, self" points to nothing, because there is nothing in there. You are waiting to see air, you are looking around, starting at things, something is bubbling, and you will never ever be able to see the air. At some point, you accept that it is clear, or you accept the nothingness that has always been there, which never contained a self or needed to.

Work on that paragraph, re-write it down and then re-write in your own words. Ask yourself how you can find no-thing no-self if it is not there....take some walks, and leave it be. The seed will sprout."

Yes. How could I expect to see nothing? Nothing is there, thougts come in after saying "i saw nothing was there". Thoughts can´t see. The thoughts even take ownership of nothing.

I will look in to this more. I give short answer now because Im going away over the day and probably won´t have internet connection until late tonight.

[SeeEye]

Good...keep going.