Hi Patrick,
"Notice that all ideas about a self are just ideas, not real."
"I" think I do notice this...intellectually speaking...this doesn't seem to make a difference. It's like another belief that I've taken on.
"Drop all the thinking about this, notice directly what is real and what is not real."
The thinking just won't seem to stop...it just keeps going....the words in the head....think about this, don't think about that...look and see that the "I" is just an idea...is a thought!!!!
Don't mean to be wasting your time. Thanks for the patience.
I look and don't find an "I" or a me, but I DO find a pyschological concept of an "I" and a "Me"...and that is something, isn't it? As sure as I have right hand, I have a concept of me...a program of "I-ness" that appears to make decisions and choices, have preferences...etc.
The "I" is constantly thinking about its "self" in relation to everything, internally and externally.
It is most definitely there, even though it has not always been there, as when I was an embryo, infant and toddler. But, like a body, it has grown.
If you take it away, the "I", then there is a lump of flesh left that is no different than an animal that functions purely from instinct and with no capacity for reflection, right?
Ready to pop...guidance welcome!
Re: Ready to pop...guidance welcome!
Look directly, don’t follow the stories formed by unchecked thoughts.
Go back to direct experience.
Is there an I thought in direct experience?
Does the I thought think?
Is the I thought aware?
Is the I thought 'doing' in the direct experience?
Are you the body? What is the fear about this?
Look at this in total honesty. Don’t jump to uninspected conclusions.
Go back to direct experience.
Is there an I thought in direct experience?
Does the I thought think?
Is the I thought aware?
Is the I thought 'doing' in the direct experience?
Are you the body? What is the fear about this?
Look at this in total honesty. Don’t jump to uninspected conclusions.
Re: Ready to pop...guidance welcome!
Patrick,
Apologies for the disappearance. I was getting frustrated and have been taking time to look more deeply at your questions. I thank you for your patience and efforts.
* is there an I thought in direct experience?
answer: No, there doesn't seem to be. There isn't. Just direct experience itself....hearing happening, seeing, feeling, etc. There is no "I" except that which arises as a thought..."I see" "I hear" etc....I seems to attach itself as a label to direct experience...it seems to "claim" it.
*Does the I thought think?
answer: The "I" doesn't think; thoughts simply arise on their own, usually or always in response to some kind of interal/external/body/mind/environmental stimuli.
*Is the I thought aware?
answer: no more so than any other thought. It is just a thought, no more, no less. "I" and tree, or dog, or x+y, or any thought doesn't seem to have any awareness in and of itself.
*Is the I thought doing in the direct experience?
answer: no, it is doing nothing, just arising as any other thought...coming and going, yet also claiming or creating a sense of ownership...as in "my thoughts" or my pleasure or my pain or my/I/me anything.
The I thought is an appearance itself in the direct experience...it does not give rise to or control or cause to come into being the direct experience itself.
The direct experience doesn't depend or need the I thought at all...the direct experience or awareness is here no matter what and needs nothing to claim ownership of it for it to simply be as it is.
* Are you the body?
answer: That is a...conundrum...There is no "I" per se, just a thought of I that doesn't do or think itself, but simply arises as, probably, a result of conditioning....the awareness is here already, nameless and needless of an "I" or a "me" to control it, run it or cause it to be.
And there is a body that is functioning, seeing, hearing, digesting, smelling, eating, touching...any number of activities...
The awareness does seem located to a body....THIS BODY...which is a what...a point of view for nameless awareness.
Destroy the body, this body, and this point of view is gone, right? The awareness carries on being aware in any number of forms...but this form, or body, no longer serves as a point of view that is unique in its expression.
It all seems so sensible...to be honest...this I/body wants something...it wants a confirming experience of "getting it"...a falling away of uncertainty...the abiding knowing that "I" is no longer...in fact, it never was.
And what difference does this knowledge make?
Apologies for the disappearance. I was getting frustrated and have been taking time to look more deeply at your questions. I thank you for your patience and efforts.
* is there an I thought in direct experience?
answer: No, there doesn't seem to be. There isn't. Just direct experience itself....hearing happening, seeing, feeling, etc. There is no "I" except that which arises as a thought..."I see" "I hear" etc....I seems to attach itself as a label to direct experience...it seems to "claim" it.
*Does the I thought think?
answer: The "I" doesn't think; thoughts simply arise on their own, usually or always in response to some kind of interal/external/body/mind/environmental stimuli.
*Is the I thought aware?
answer: no more so than any other thought. It is just a thought, no more, no less. "I" and tree, or dog, or x+y, or any thought doesn't seem to have any awareness in and of itself.
*Is the I thought doing in the direct experience?
answer: no, it is doing nothing, just arising as any other thought...coming and going, yet also claiming or creating a sense of ownership...as in "my thoughts" or my pleasure or my pain or my/I/me anything.
The I thought is an appearance itself in the direct experience...it does not give rise to or control or cause to come into being the direct experience itself.
The direct experience doesn't depend or need the I thought at all...the direct experience or awareness is here no matter what and needs nothing to claim ownership of it for it to simply be as it is.
* Are you the body?
answer: That is a...conundrum...There is no "I" per se, just a thought of I that doesn't do or think itself, but simply arises as, probably, a result of conditioning....the awareness is here already, nameless and needless of an "I" or a "me" to control it, run it or cause it to be.
And there is a body that is functioning, seeing, hearing, digesting, smelling, eating, touching...any number of activities...
The awareness does seem located to a body....THIS BODY...which is a what...a point of view for nameless awareness.
Destroy the body, this body, and this point of view is gone, right? The awareness carries on being aware in any number of forms...but this form, or body, no longer serves as a point of view that is unique in its expression.
It all seems so sensible...to be honest...this I/body wants something...it wants a confirming experience of "getting it"...a falling away of uncertainty...the abiding knowing that "I" is no longer...in fact, it never was.
And what difference does this knowledge make?
Re: Ready to pop...guidance welcome!
Hi Scott, thanks for your clear answers.
Uncertainty comes from old conditionings and will arise regularly.
Every time this uncertainty comes up check if there is an ‘I’ present. See again and again that the ‘I’ isn’t there anymore. This becomes a certainty coming from direct experience.
Is this helpful?
Does this confirm for you that you have seen that the ‘I’ doesn’t exist?
What is this you in language now referring to like in the sentence above?
Uncertainty comes from old conditionings and will arise regularly.
Every time this uncertainty comes up check if there is an ‘I’ present. See again and again that the ‘I’ isn’t there anymore. This becomes a certainty coming from direct experience.
Is this helpful?
Does this confirm for you that you have seen that the ‘I’ doesn’t exist?
What is this you in language now referring to like in the sentence above?
Re: Ready to pop...guidance welcome!
What is happening now?
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