Looking for guidance

[Spacefrog]

Don't know who could be pulled back in the closet though. Other than the mind itself.

[Spacefrog]

By the way this metafor could sound a bit awkward but I guess you know what is meant. Haha :p

[Spacefrog]

Think of Monsters inc. instead of Brokeback Mountain

[odemira]

Hi William

Promise there are no Brokeback Mountain thoughts here about you, lol!

Ok, so.........

It all feels like a big joke at the moment. There is nothing the mind is goin to find except itself making up a story. What can I even say right now. It's just the mind talking aswell, another funny story.
Let's clean out the whole closet it says. Let's confirm again and again that there is no William hiding there.

Yes, Yes, Yes. And there never has been a William there, just a story about a William.

there is a slight fear that William could come back in and pull me in. Don't know who could be pulled back in though. Other than the mind itself.

Fear arising can often happen once the realisation happens that there isn't a self there except as a story. And it's good that you (we have to use the word 'you' for communication purposes, even though we both know now 'you' are not there ;) ) realised very quickly that only the mind can pull you back in. The mind's job as you've observed is to identify and label everything, so it may or may not give up this job easily. So I suggest you spend the day letting this realisation of 'no-William' sink in further, and just notice if any other fears arise, or any other questions. Keep checking if there are traces of William still around. Ok? Let me know tomorrow how you're getting on.

It feels like a burdain falling off my shoulders

:)))

with love
Odemira

[Spacefrog]

Dear Odemira,

So today has been a bit of a weird day. Since yesterday night there is a strong belief that 'William' is a mind construct. And there is also a growing sense of everything going automatically.
The idea of something else being here than the mind is kind of silly. This is a story that the mind is making up. The belief of being in control is created by the mind.

Yet, William is still being presented by the mind lots of times throughout the day. Although I must say that this day has been the smoothest day since months.
The mind still catches itself thinking William thoughts.

At the moment there is still a bit of fear. It's pulling, telling me that I might be making this all up, and that I might wake up tomorrow having totally lost this sense of not being William.
On the other hand this totally contradicts the insight of William being a thought construct and that makes that these thoughts don't have so much power right now because it's seen as just another story of the mind.
But, have to admit that it is still seductive.

It is also starting up new thought streams like:
The mind is making up stories, directing this body and so on. But there is a knowing of being alive, of existing. Would that mean that all that I am is the observer that sees life happening through this body/mind?


I feel like I'm on the edge of nothing. William is probably afraid to look over, but at the same time wants nothing more than to jump.

Please help me wipe out those traces Odemira..

Thanks so much.
Love, William

[Spacefrog]

Good day Odemira,

Just another thought, and I don't know if I'm asking too much right now and if it's appropriate, but at this point I would really love to engage a bit more intensely. I'm not saying I think should be around all day, but I would like to have a bit more of an intense conversation to crack it open.

Would this be possible for you? Once again, it is just a request, don't feel obliged.

Love, William

[Spacefrog]

Update..

Sitting on the kitchen counter watching life passing by. It's becoming more and more impossible to believe that William exists. If this William would exist, it would know what a thought is, how to create it, it would be the owner of all this happening. But this mechanism is just functioning without questioning, without doubting. It just is and is does itself.

At the moment the light is flickering on and off. I don't constantly 'feel' like being lived, but the belief is stronger than ever before. This pushes 'me' more and more into observer mode, a perspective from which things seems to unveil itself more clearly.
There is also a lightness that is felt. This whole thing is starting to feel less worrisome. Less feelings of someone being able to succeed or fail, or someone that needs to achieve this. Starting to see that it's, although I know I should keep looking for now, going to unfold as there being nothing, no one seeking in the first place.

[odemira]

Hi william,
quick reply, will reply in detail later....
this is all good, trust the process... but be aware that the mind is always wanting to label experience - so 'observer', 'awareness' are just more labels that the mind tries out. 'You' are none of these. Life doesn't need a 'William'.

more later
sent you email re more intense chat.
love
odemira

[odemira]

Rephrase that last sentence: Life doesn't need a William for life to happen, it's all just life life-ing.

[Spacefrog]

Another update..

I replied to your email by the way, in case you haven't seen it yet!

Two days ago mind has caught itself in the act of playing William. Since that moment it is, from moment to moment, taking notice of it's own ways.
Lots of times still pretending to be 'me', but then being seen as just the play of the mind.

There is some sort of faith. Faith that whatever could happen, however 'I' could stray off, it would just be the mind telling itself that the person William is losing it.

However. The mind is trying to grab hold of this in the mean time. It is saying things like: "I'm on the safe side", "I feel much better at the moment" and it also caught itself wanting to tell people about it's new discovery, that I don't exist. Not that there's anything wrong with telling, but it's the kind of telling where you're trying to impress someone.
Even that all is just it's own little game haha.

Must admit that the mind is secretly still hoping for a big bang to happen, so Odemira, time to shake that out. Or not? ;)

Rephrase that last sentence: Life doesn't need a William for life to happen, it's all just life life-ing.

Besides discovering what you're not, isn't there also a discovering what you are? I am nothing, I am everything?

[odemira]

Hi William

Wow, a lot falling away from 'you'! Let's address what's been coming up.

'William' is a mind construct. And there is also a growing sense of everything going automatically.

Yes, 'William' is a mind construct, a label. Doesn't exist outside of a thought, never has done.
Yes, everything happens automatically - keep checking that out, keep noticing any instances when it feels like 'you' are the doer - and then check whether a 'you' can be found.

The mind still catches itself thinking William thoughts.

Yes, the mind will still think thoughts of William, of 'I' - but they won't be believed any more. Or maybe some of them will be believed for a while, until the illusion is seen through again. It's like losing the belief in Santa Claus, you still play along with the pretence, but now you know it's a pretence.

At the moment there is still a bit of fear. It's pulling, telling me that I might be making this all up, and that I might wake up tomorrow having totally lost this sense of not being William.

Fear often arises in this process - just check into like you did here, and it soon evaporates. These are just thoughts arising. A thought is real, what's being thought about can be real, or it can be imaginary. Thoughts about 'you' are about an imaginary self.

The mind is making up stories, directing this body and so on. But there is a knowing of being alive, of existing. Would that mean that all that I am is the observer that sees life happening through this body/mind?

Just repeating, the mind wants to label everything. Can you find the observer who is seeing life?

But this mechanism is just functioning without questioning, without doubting. It just is and is does itself.

YES.

I don't constantly 'feel' like being lived, but the belief is stronger than ever before. This pushes 'me' more and more into observer mode,

You don't exist, there is no observer.

Starting to see that it's, although I know I should keep looking for now, going to unfold as there being nothing, no one seeking in the first place.

YES, it's all unfolding automatically :) But keep noticing anywhere where it feels like it's not.

The mind is trying to grab hold of this in the mean time. It is saying things like: "I'm on the safe side", "I feel much better at the moment" and it also caught itself wanting to tell people about it's new discovery, that I don't exist. Not that there's anything wrong with telling, but it's the kind of telling where you're trying to impress someone. Even that all is just it's own little game haha.

YES. Your conditioning, the way you behave, isn't going to change instantly. But as you notice how the 'I' arises and wants to impress, it can be smiled at and just let go, it falls away. Or maybe it doesn't for a while, but whatever, it's all happening automatically.

Must admit that the mind is secretly still hoping for a big bang to happen, so Odemira, time to shake that out. Or not? ;)

Just a thought arising, creating an imaginary 'I' that wants the big event. Creating another BS story. Or superhero one in your case? ;)

Besides discovering what you're not, isn't there also a discovering what you are? I am nothing, I am everything?

Oh William, pass me the Batman cape! ;) When you say "I", what are you referring to?
You don't exist in any shape or form. But the mind's going to try and keep identifying with something, that's it's job until it gives up that job!

So time for some more observations:
In what is being experienced, is there a self in any form that is separate from anything else? Is there an 'I' inside looking at the world 'outside'?

Happy looking!
with love
Odemira

[Spacefrog]

The following post might contain a lot confusion. But we're here to take the trash out right?

Yes, the mind will still think thoughts of William, of 'I' - but they won't be believed any more. Or maybe some of them will be believed for a while, until the illusion is seen through again.

This still makes me feel like there are loose ends. By who won't they be believed anymore? And who sees through the illusion? The illusion itself?

You'll get the batman cape in a second, hold on..

You don't exist, there is no observer.

What about the 'I' of awareness? It is undeniable that there is awareness. There is an undeniable knowing of being alive. I know (using I for the sake of communicating) that this is just language and that it is not what it points to, but it is referring to 'The ultimate subject'.
Please come in on this..

Fear often arises in this process - just check into like you did here, and it soon evaporates. These are just thoughts arising. A thought is real, what's being thought about can be real, or it can be imaginary.

What that can be thought of is real? Isn't thought bound to concepts?
Or do you mean that what's being pointed at through the concept, for example a cup, is real, but not as a cup?

Thoughts about 'you' are about an imaginary self.

The mind is a funny one. It loves making up this story about me and at the same time is trying to get rid of it.

Just repeating, the mind wants to label everything. Can you find the observer who is seeing life?

No, what comes to mind when this phrase is read, is that there is life seeing and being aware of itself.

YES. Your conditioning, the way you behave, isn't going to change instantly. But as you notice how the 'I' arises and wants to impress, it can be smiled at and just let go, it falls away. Or maybe it doesn't for a while, but whatever, it's all happening automatically.

Yes, this is what happens and this is the lightness I was talking about. There is no 'me' to blame for having a certain thought or even when that thought is expressed. But it certainly points to the fact that the mind is still coping with old habits which ask for observation.

Just a thought arising, creating an imaginary 'I' that wants the big event. Creating another BS story. Or superhero one in your case? ;)

This is getting more and more easy to let go of. With the belief growing stronger that there is no one to be enlightened and there never was. The only thing that is going to change is the perspective from which this body/mind experiences the world. Thought structures.

Oh William, pass me the Batman cape! ;) When you say "I", what are you referring to?
You don't exist in any shape or form. But the mind's going to try and keep identifying with something, that's it's job until it gives up that job!

Ok ok, here's the Batman cape.

So time for some more observations:
In what is being experienced, is there a self in any form that is separate from anything else? Is there an 'I' inside looking at the world 'outside'?

This is the job for today. Be back later on with results.

Thank you Odemira.
Love, William

[Spacefrog]

So time for some more observations:
In what is being experienced, is there a self in any form that is separate from anything else? Is there an 'I' inside looking at the world 'outside'?

There is no "I" looking at the world "outside". there is the experience which contains looking, but within the looking there doesn't seem to be an inside or outside. It is all happening within this experience.

Trying to get a little further into this..There is the experience, which contains looking and a triggered thought which tells a story of an 'I' which is looking at an outside world. But this thought is happening within this same experience as looking. It exists together with the looking, dressing up the experience. It is trying to make a distinction by claiming one part of the experience and excluding the rest.

It's so weird to read back what I just wrote. because when I stop for a moment and look, it is the actual experience. A minute later it can be like oh my gosh this is literally mind blowing, in the sense of.. I almost can't believe that the truth is so radically different from what was thought for almost 26 years.

Lights flickering on and off..

[Spacefrog]

Stuff coming up..

There is an illusion of an existing 'someone' in this body/mind. Based upon a thought, an idea created by the mind and projected upon itself and the world.
Especially the idea that this 'someone' is in control of it strengthens the belief of being it, which then strengthens another idea of being only it, the body mind.

[Spacefrog]

By the way this last post is based upon the 'my' experience when we started out this conversation.