I'm ready to know the truth.

[jimw]

Yes, it seems true. But I still want to know what IS noticing, because there is definitely awareness and noticing happening. Can awareness be happening without anything being aware? I feel that something is aware.

There is just awareness happening. The mind tries to label it as something, as that's what it does, it is a big labeling machine.

I see objects, I hear sounds, I see and feel a body, I perceive thoughts, I see fingers typing on a keyboard, forming words is happening, breathing is happening, there is awareness of all this, but I don't find a definite "me."

Excellent. And do you know why you find nothing ? It is because there is nothing to find ?

A water bottle is seen (by this body?) but I don't find a someone who sees it.

Spot on. You can't find someone to see it - because there isn't a someone! Do you see ?

Thinking of an elephant happened, and there was no me controlling that.

Again, spot on. There was no "me" to control the thinking. It just happened right ? There was no mini-Stephanie pushing a 'thinking' button. Thinking just happened.

Thinking of an elephant happened, and there was no me controlling that.

Again, no "me" or "I" to be found.

I have looked and looked can't find an actual self, only thoughts about a self

You've hit the nail on the head. Well done. There is no self. Only ever a thought, a label, a concept, an idea. It is not real. Welcome to reality. Here and now. And now. And now. And now. No "me", no "I". And again. And now.

but I still don't feel any kind of profound shift has happened.

Are your expectations that there would be a great shift anything more than concepts ? Isn't the idea of a great shift, just that, an idea ?

[jimw]

Hey Stephanie - how are you doing ?

[Stephaniet]

Hey Stephanie - how are you doing ?

Hi, I'm still here, just looking and looking at my thoughts and trying to differentiate them from reality. I do find a subtle belief in a separate self in the body. In other words, I feel like my body and mind is a separate self. It exists separately from other bodies and other objects, it is what allows thoughts, consciousness, etc. to be. Do you have any thoughts about the feeling of the body and mind being the self?

[jimw]

Hi, I'm still here, just looking and looking at my thoughts and trying to differentiate them from reality. I do find a subtle belief in a separate self in the body. In other words, I feel like my body and mind is a separate self

Stephanie - they are not YOUR thoughts. They are are just thoughts.

.Do you have any thoughts about the feeling of the body and mind being the self?

The this process has to work, is that I ask you questions (which point to what is true). Not the other way around.

A thought or a belief about something, anything, is not directly that thing. It is a label. Tell me, which of these thoughts is real: Chair, School, Santa Claus ? Is it the case that our thoughts / beliefs are all true ?

In other words, I feel like my body and mind is a separate self. It exists separately from other bodies and other objects, it is what allows thoughts, consciousness, etc. to be

Isn't your mind just a bunch of thoughts ? Are these tangible, real, always what really is ?

Where is 'self' in your body ? What happens if you break it down ? Where is this 'self' - Head ? Arms ? Legs? Bones ? Muscle ? Brain ? Cells ? Brain Cells ? Proteins ? Molecules ? Atoms ? Electrons ? Protons ? Quarks ? Leptons ?

Or could it be that there are just ideas, just beliefs (labels), just thoughts (labels), just sensations occurring along with sense organs and a nervous system ? All happening now as you read this ?

[Stephaniet]

"I" feel like I'm starting to "get it." I had the realization last night that there is a body here and thoughts and feelings and sensations, but no owner, no manager of these things. I can't find the owner. I'm going to spend the day trying to abide in direct experience only and not take thoughts to be real, and see if this realization deepens.

Thanks so much for your help so far, Jim. It is so kind of you to try to help others see this.

[jimw]

Hi Stephanie - happy to guide, if you keep looking!

I had the realization last night that there is a body here and thoughts and feelings and sensations, but no owner, no manager of these things

Excellent. That is fantastic. Where is the "owner" ? Could is be there is no owner......

I'm going to spend the day trying to abide in direct experience only and not take thoughts to be real, and see if this realization deepens

Stephanie have a clear focused look at the following questions and tell me what comes up straight away, no pondering, or analytical thinking:

(1) Stephanie - do you really need to wait for anything ? Isn't there a lack of "me" or "I" or the label "Stephanie" already present, here and now ? ?

Before you said

I have looked and looked can't find an actual self, only thoughts about a self, but I still don't feel any kind of profound shift has happened.

(2) Could the thought that you need to wait for something, a shift of some sort, be just that ? A thought ? A label ? An illusion that waiting has to occur ?

[Stephaniet]

Stephanie have a clear focused look at the following questions and tell me what comes up straight away, no pondering, or analytical thinking:

(1) Stephanie - do you really need to wait for anything ? Isn't there a lack of "me" or "I" or the label "Stephanie" already present, here and now ? ?

Before you said

I have looked and looked can't find an actual self, only thoughts about a self, but I still don't feel any kind of profound shift has happened.

(2) Could the thought that you need to wait for something, a shift of some sort, be just that ? A thought ? A label ? An illusion that waiting has to occur ?

Yes, the lack of a "me" is already here, I don't need to wait to see that. I guess I feel like I need to wait and see if this "sticks" to test it out so to speak.

[jimw]

Yes, the lack of a "me" is already here

That's great ! There is no "me" here, right ?

I guess I feel like I need to wait and see if this "sticks" to test it out so to speak.

Look at these questions with all you've got and answer right 'from the gut' as it were, not the head.

Stephanie - isn't the case that there has never been a "me" ?

Stephanie, you said that the lack of "me" is already here. Is there anything other than the here and now ? Isn't 'future' just an idea, another concept, another label, another illusion ?

[Stephaniet]

Stephanie - isn't the case that there has never been a "me" ?

Stephanie, you said that the lack of "me" is already here. Is there anything other than the here and now ? Isn't 'future' just an idea, another concept, another label, another illusion ?

Yes, if there is not a me here now, then there was never a me and there will never be a me in the future, because past and future are only thoughts, not real.

[jimw]

Yes, if there is not a me here now, then there was never a me and there will never be a me in the future, because past and future are only thoughts, not real.

Yes, exactly !

Read your own statement back - what sensations arise ?

[jimw]

also Stephanie, could you please write down for me later today / tomorrow what it feels like now the beliefs have fallen away ?

[Stephaniet]

Yes, if there is not a me here now, then there was never a me and there will never be a me in the future, because past and future are only thoughts, not real.

Yes, exactly !

Read your own statement back - what sensations arise ?

I find it funny, ridiculous really, that I was so convinced there was a separate, real "Stephanie" for so long. It also feels very free to be released from the belief in a self. Things feel lighter and simpler. I feel much more grounded in the moment, directly experiencing what is actually happening as opposed to being lost in thoughts.

[Stephaniet]

also Stephanie, could you please write down for me later today / tomorrow what it feels like now the beliefs have fallen away ?

Will do.

[Stephaniet]

also Stephanie, could you please write down for me later today / tomorrow what it feels like now the beliefs have fallen away ?

I feel less reactive, there is more of a distance or space around things that used to bother me. I'm feeling a little unsure of how to live life with no self motivating me. Will I become apathetic? If there is no doer and life is just happening, where is the motivation to do anything? There is still a feeling of a me needing to make things happen, make decisions, take action, even though I know that me doesn't exist. So I'm just watching and trying to release those types of thoughts when they arise.

[jimw]

I find it funny, ridiculous really, that I was so convinced there was a separate, real "Stephanie" for so long. It also feels very free to be released from the belief in a self. Things feel lighter and simpler. I feel much more grounded in the moment, directly experiencing what is actually happening as opposed to being lost in thoughts.

Stephanie - that's fantastic. It is not always an easy ride after no-self is seen, but what you begin to see is REALITY - in all it's glory or otherwise !

I feel less reactive, there is more of a distance or space around things that used to bother me. I'm feeling a little unsure of how to live life with no self motivating me. Will I become apathetic? If there is no doer and life is just happening, where is the motivation to do anything? There is still a feeling of a me needing to make things happen, make decisions, take action, even though I know that me doesn't exist. So I'm just watching and trying to release those types of thoughts when they arise.

Stephanie, I suspect that you have 'gone through the gate'. Don't worry, this isn't the 'end of road' - It’s the first step of an awakened, authentic life. It can be very freeing!

Could you please answer the following questions for me ? You don't need to think about them, just right out whatever comes up.

1) Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever? how about self, is there anything that is separate from everything else?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.

3) How does it feel to see this? describe in detail.

4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it.

5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look? was there a specific moment when seeing happened or was it gradual? what exactly happened?