Oh - wow -that was quick. I was just returning to post what had just occurred to me after all that - sharing. I don't know about being 'right' just my experience/interpretation of things.
Actually, I was just having a good laugh with myself ... it occured to me -how rediculous it is to believe that a complete ILLUSION - NEEDS - UNDERSTANDING - hilarious!!! ... that is likely the basis of all stories ... and one of the great underpinnings of an I.
Life is pure genious - not sure I would have seen that without 'you' - eg this dance - Rohit ! That is worth gold! I am deeply grateful for this - thankyou Rohit .
On a practical note - you might want to check with Illona re another guide.
Aloha,
b
New here - is a guide available ?
Re: New here - is a guide available ?
Not sure why that last post didn't register - perhaps it will soon enough.
Re: New here - is a guide available ?
Hi,
I am willing to walk with you if you would like.
It might be helpful to look at your process like this: There is a difference between all of your experience, your story, the feelings and memories...the content of all of this...and the process of "seeing". If someone could hug you into seeing, someone would already have stopped by. The content, the programming, all of your history, etc., are not as important from the other side of the gate (it's a bad analogy, but a way of communicating) as it is before you cross it.
All of your content and experience, including the seeking and the doubt and the pounding on the sofa and crying and all of that, is very real. Organizing and working with the "stuff", putting it all in order, "healing" etc...are good to do, and this is a separate process from seeing.
I had a teacher for a long time who could be very harsh and violent. He would say that the part of me I was trying to protect was not worth keeping, and in fact it was in the way. He used to tell me I gave way too much importance to words and feelings.
You are closer than you think.
You have expectations of what it means to be cared for and treated with kindness. You have expectations that this needs to all be in order, and then seeing can happen. Who is inside you that owns this? Turn around inside yourself and what is there?
Short direct answers will help you much and keep you from getting stuck in the content of thoughts.
I am willing to walk with you if you would like.
It might be helpful to look at your process like this: There is a difference between all of your experience, your story, the feelings and memories...the content of all of this...and the process of "seeing". If someone could hug you into seeing, someone would already have stopped by. The content, the programming, all of your history, etc., are not as important from the other side of the gate (it's a bad analogy, but a way of communicating) as it is before you cross it.
All of your content and experience, including the seeking and the doubt and the pounding on the sofa and crying and all of that, is very real. Organizing and working with the "stuff", putting it all in order, "healing" etc...are good to do, and this is a separate process from seeing.
I had a teacher for a long time who could be very harsh and violent. He would say that the part of me I was trying to protect was not worth keeping, and in fact it was in the way. He used to tell me I gave way too much importance to words and feelings.
You are closer than you think.
What is inside of you that needs to be understood, resonated with? Suppose I gave you a big hug and you cried it all out...I am hugging the body, you feel hugging, you hear sobbing, and inside labeling is going on, internal dialogue. "This feels good. Finally someone understands me. Is my nose running? Gross." And all of this is happening. Now you look inside and look for "you". Can all of this happen without you having the thought "I" am having this experience? You want to find out if there is some real thing inside you that is not thought reflecting back experience a millisecond later.Actually, I was just having a good laugh with myself ... it occured to me -how rediculous it is to believe that a complete ILLUSION - NEEDS - UNDERSTANDING - hilarious!!! ... that is likely the basis of all stories ... and one of the great underpinnings of an I.
You have expectations of what it means to be cared for and treated with kindness. You have expectations that this needs to all be in order, and then seeing can happen. Who is inside you that owns this? Turn around inside yourself and what is there?
Short direct answers will help you much and keep you from getting stuck in the content of thoughts.
Re: New here - is a guide available ?
Ilona had emailed me that Anki/Lisa would be working with me =?
Re: New here - is a guide available ?
What the hell - since you wrote all that about my content - here is my response.
No - I actually don't have expectations "that ALL this NEEDS to be in order, and then seeing can happen." However it doesn't hurt either. I would refer you to read the first testimonial on the web site ... the person said they expected to be kind of knocked around into 'truth' however they said ..."I felt supported and SENSITIVELY EXTENDED throughout our dialogue and that SAYS A HUGE AMOUNT ABOUT YOUR LEVEL OF SKILLS and UNDERSTANDING". I would agree with them ... it is not necessary - however it doesn't hurt either.
All Rohit - would have had to do was to clearly acknowledge he understood the impulse to content and how it seems important - however that is not what will be helpful here (for this process) ... instead he just ignored what was shared. it's ok . "If someone could have hugged you into seeing, someone would have already stopped by". - felt like a jab. You actually made my content much more real by going on extensively about it - with rather "gross" images. I wish I had watched the sharing on the site before jumping in - however it didn't play out that way. I know your sharing was well intended. At the same time, I don't feel my honesty was 'sensitively' handled at all - I feel it was reacted to as content - with justifying content. I offered up the names of several guides whose work I really liked - however, that was brushed aside ... and I was told I should just do it on my own = here is the exit. Wow - that hurt. Oh well more content to ignore. I feel the idea of this site is brilliant. It is likely in a huge growth spurt due to the batgap interview.
I would love to work with Elizabeth, Valerie or Anki - who I was told would be contacting me - but that didn't happen - so - unless one of them is willing - which I doubt after this kind of - content - then I'll just be on my way. This was certainly unexpected - however it is what is.
Obviously my being honest has not been appreciated. It could have been handled without jabs.
No - I actually don't have expectations "that ALL this NEEDS to be in order, and then seeing can happen." However it doesn't hurt either. I would refer you to read the first testimonial on the web site ... the person said they expected to be kind of knocked around into 'truth' however they said ..."I felt supported and SENSITIVELY EXTENDED throughout our dialogue and that SAYS A HUGE AMOUNT ABOUT YOUR LEVEL OF SKILLS and UNDERSTANDING". I would agree with them ... it is not necessary - however it doesn't hurt either.
All Rohit - would have had to do was to clearly acknowledge he understood the impulse to content and how it seems important - however that is not what will be helpful here (for this process) ... instead he just ignored what was shared. it's ok . "If someone could have hugged you into seeing, someone would have already stopped by". - felt like a jab. You actually made my content much more real by going on extensively about it - with rather "gross" images. I wish I had watched the sharing on the site before jumping in - however it didn't play out that way. I know your sharing was well intended. At the same time, I don't feel my honesty was 'sensitively' handled at all - I feel it was reacted to as content - with justifying content. I offered up the names of several guides whose work I really liked - however, that was brushed aside ... and I was told I should just do it on my own = here is the exit. Wow - that hurt. Oh well more content to ignore. I feel the idea of this site is brilliant. It is likely in a huge growth spurt due to the batgap interview.
I would love to work with Elizabeth, Valerie or Anki - who I was told would be contacting me - but that didn't happen - so - unless one of them is willing - which I doubt after this kind of - content - then I'll just be on my way. This was certainly unexpected - however it is what is.
Obviously my being honest has not been appreciated. It could have been handled without jabs.
Re: New here - is a guide available ?
I am very sorry - that was my conditioning just being very - jabby. Is there a delete button? The "i" felt hurt and apparently had to take a swipe at 'someone'. I am really sorry. It wasn't helpful at all.
Re: New here - is a guide available ?
Is it possible to start a new thread? This thing is dead and gone ... .
Re: New here - is a guide available ?
Apology accepted.
I was told by Lisa you withdrew your request for Lisa after Ilona checked that she was available.
If you want to work, I am willing to keep going, with the following understanding 1) that I am guiding and you are answering questions, and doing the work to the best of your ability. 2) That you put aside what "you" think is the work, and just work on the questions and work on seeing. You don't get to make all the decisions, to start a new thread, to determine what is good, what is shit, what is a jab....because....there is no "you" to make the evaluation. Since you haven't seen this yet, your "self" is pitching a fit to distract from the process of seeing it as illusion. There is no judgment in this at all. I'd love for you to wake up and to see, but you need to get over yourself just a little and trust that all here are all for this happening.
Your feelings validate your precious sense of self, which you know you are trying to see that it is not there, and thus be freed from it. These emotional flareups do not prove that the self is real, or needs to be validated, which I thought you actually "saw" for a second, thus why I quoted it.
I had to get over myself as well in my own process, and I actually used one of my own flareups for the work.
You got angry before, frustrated. Close your eyes and ask yourself "who" got angry? Does this offended "self" actually exist, or is it a thought labeling some experiences just after they happen?
I was told by Lisa you withdrew your request for Lisa after Ilona checked that she was available.
If you want to work, I am willing to keep going, with the following understanding 1) that I am guiding and you are answering questions, and doing the work to the best of your ability. 2) That you put aside what "you" think is the work, and just work on the questions and work on seeing. You don't get to make all the decisions, to start a new thread, to determine what is good, what is shit, what is a jab....because....there is no "you" to make the evaluation. Since you haven't seen this yet, your "self" is pitching a fit to distract from the process of seeing it as illusion. There is no judgment in this at all. I'd love for you to wake up and to see, but you need to get over yourself just a little and trust that all here are all for this happening.
Your feelings validate your precious sense of self, which you know you are trying to see that it is not there, and thus be freed from it. These emotional flareups do not prove that the self is real, or needs to be validated, which I thought you actually "saw" for a second, thus why I quoted it.
I had to get over myself as well in my own process, and I actually used one of my own flareups for the work.
You got angry before, frustrated. Close your eyes and ask yourself "who" got angry? Does this offended "self" actually exist, or is it a thought labeling some experiences just after they happen?
Re: New here - is a guide available ?
I don't know what is going on - I was told by Illona not long ago - after - I explained that you had written me that she still said Anki would be contacting me. Apparently the timing of emails got all screwed up. This has become way too convoluted.
Your 'right' - whatever that is ... your last paragraph feels particularly true. I just can't focus enough to continue today.
Your 'right' - whatever that is ... your last paragraph feels particularly true. I just can't focus enough to continue today.
Re: New here - is a guide available ?
Lisa explained to me that when you withdrew your request, she took on other projects and is now tied up. I responded to you and my note that I had done so did not post electronically...so we have several people behind the scenes attempting to coordinate. My impression is that the other guides you mentioned are probably not going to spare the "Zen stick" much at this point, but that's just my impression.
In my work I use an approach called No-Fault Psychology. We are where we are, no judgment, and we view learning as simply learning, and we did the best we could with what we had at the time, and we move forward. I do not judge, but observe as objectively as possible. The "if hugging could cause seeing" comment is very sincere. I do not like to see people suffer, nor do I like to hear them cry. Yet no matter how much I would like to change that for you, I can only be effective by helping you to see things about yourself, or in this case to just see no-self. What people often think they need is not what will help, and often does the opposite by strengthening the illusions and the little demanding ego that is ruining their life.
Trust that I care for you and do not wish you to suffer. The demands we place on ourselves, each other, an life to be DIFFERENT THAN IT IS RIGHT NOW is what causes psychological suffering.
With that said...
Maybe today can be a new day and bring with it some new hope and clarity, and we can put the past behind.
If we review where you are, you had said that the "self" was a bunch of thoughts, and that it was funny that the "self" which does not exists reacts as it does, demands to be validated and special, to the point where nobody understands, or understands it exactly in the manner it must be understood, is constantly being jabbed at.
In my work I use an approach called No-Fault Psychology. We are where we are, no judgment, and we view learning as simply learning, and we did the best we could with what we had at the time, and we move forward. I do not judge, but observe as objectively as possible. The "if hugging could cause seeing" comment is very sincere. I do not like to see people suffer, nor do I like to hear them cry. Yet no matter how much I would like to change that for you, I can only be effective by helping you to see things about yourself, or in this case to just see no-self. What people often think they need is not what will help, and often does the opposite by strengthening the illusions and the little demanding ego that is ruining their life.
Trust that I care for you and do not wish you to suffer. The demands we place on ourselves, each other, an life to be DIFFERENT THAN IT IS RIGHT NOW is what causes psychological suffering.
With that said...
Maybe today can be a new day and bring with it some new hope and clarity, and we can put the past behind.
If we review where you are, you had said that the "self" was a bunch of thoughts, and that it was funny that the "self" which does not exists reacts as it does, demands to be validated and special, to the point where nobody understands, or understands it exactly in the manner it must be understood, is constantly being jabbed at.
Re: New here - is a guide available ?
You know I reread the original threads with Rohit last night ... and I saw that there was really nothing at all wrong with his approach - and I was shocked at how different it looked! I clearly didn't understand the process - however my thoughts and perceptions about what was going on were way off. I recall having said that I felt "edgy" in the prior writing ... it must have taken over - thoughts and perceptions. I am left with a very strange sense that I cannot trust what the mind it saying about what it believes it is perceiving - about anything - 'good' or 'bad'. I feel like I am attempting to right myself in a room full of distorted mirrors.
I - thought - I was making a simple request - it turned into a nightmare ... and I realize I am now labeled as a big problem - 'behind the scenes'. It is not a great feeling. I appreciate your kindness in writing back and extending yourself as you have. I don't know how to function when I realize I - really - cannot trust what the mind is telling me about anything ... and I am left feeling very very strange. I feel very humiliated and it feels too painful to continue.
I came here very interested and I just feel shocked and devastated - it certainly seems like life doesn't want me here at all - at the same time even these words/descriptions are clearly both pointless and meaningless. It's very wierd - I'll have to see if there is another way to - orient - realizing my thoughts and perceptions are simply very distorted. I guess Leela had a blast with this dance.
Meanwhile, I'm going surfing.
Thank you very much for your kindness,
Aloha
I - thought - I was making a simple request - it turned into a nightmare ... and I realize I am now labeled as a big problem - 'behind the scenes'. It is not a great feeling. I appreciate your kindness in writing back and extending yourself as you have. I don't know how to function when I realize I - really - cannot trust what the mind is telling me about anything ... and I am left feeling very very strange. I feel very humiliated and it feels too painful to continue.
I came here very interested and I just feel shocked and devastated - it certainly seems like life doesn't want me here at all - at the same time even these words/descriptions are clearly both pointless and meaningless. It's very wierd - I'll have to see if there is another way to - orient - realizing my thoughts and perceptions are simply very distorted. I guess Leela had a blast with this dance.
Meanwhile, I'm going surfing.
Thank you very much for your kindness,
Aloha
Re: New here - is a guide available ?
All of the following is said in love. You are in your own way, and do not know what is needed.
What is lacking here is responsibility. You were doing fine. You got peeved, behaved rather poorly considering the gift people are trying to give you, you get demanding and more peeved. This should not feel good.
Will help if you shift from labeling "good" and "bad" to "effective" and "ineffective" at getting certain result. Too judgmental your way. You get lost in your stuff, lash out at others, and this is ineffective for relationships and for this work.
Cut the crap with the 'life" does not want you to be here. OWN that YOU are preventing yourself from showing up and from being "bothered" to do the work, because it doesn't suit the way you would like to feel, your personal history and story which you use to validate your behaviors.
Turn the tables, teach me how to surf. I am responsible to show up, shut up for a few minutes, and let you show me what I need to do. The fact that my dad didn't like me doesn't really matter. The fact that I am afraid is relevant yet can be overcome, because I see how well you surf, so there is hope. You will say to stand on the board like so, see when wave gets like this you go. If I say that "life" doesn't want me to surf, you will call bullshit in 2 seconds. The fact that falling off hurts my feelings....if this outweighs my desire and passion to be free with the ocean...I'm not going to stick with it. It is not your fault, or the ocean's fault. I just failed to continue.
What is lacking here is responsibility. You were doing fine. You got peeved, behaved rather poorly considering the gift people are trying to give you, you get demanding and more peeved. This should not feel good.
Will help if you shift from labeling "good" and "bad" to "effective" and "ineffective" at getting certain result. Too judgmental your way. You get lost in your stuff, lash out at others, and this is ineffective for relationships and for this work.
Cut the crap with the 'life" does not want you to be here. OWN that YOU are preventing yourself from showing up and from being "bothered" to do the work, because it doesn't suit the way you would like to feel, your personal history and story which you use to validate your behaviors.
Turn the tables, teach me how to surf. I am responsible to show up, shut up for a few minutes, and let you show me what I need to do. The fact that my dad didn't like me doesn't really matter. The fact that I am afraid is relevant yet can be overcome, because I see how well you surf, so there is hope. You will say to stand on the board like so, see when wave gets like this you go. If I say that "life" doesn't want me to surf, you will call bullshit in 2 seconds. The fact that falling off hurts my feelings....if this outweighs my desire and passion to be free with the ocean...I'm not going to stick with it. It is not your fault, or the ocean's fault. I just failed to continue.
Re: New here - is a guide available ?
Really ??? !!!
That is a HUGE amount of interpretation!!!
I did - show up .... I only wished - I had read and realized I could have requested a guide whose - style - I felt resonant with. What has happened beyond this is simply stunning!
I - "HONESTLY" - interpreted my experience and - HONESTLY - felt that my guide was not reading much of what I shared and that his style was quite "laser" like as someone who loved his work felt. Perfect - I/my conditioning felt differently - what a terrible person that makes me.
I went off line - sent a personal message to Illona - asking - what my options might be - given how I -"honestly" felt ... and I also sent a similar message - off line to my guide. I tried very hard to be kind and appreciative. WOW - what I got back was just shocking. The guide insisted that I tell him why I wanted another guide on line - by answering 4 questions - so I did.
Meanwhile - Illona first told me via e-mail - "you do the math" and figure it out for myself - that "I knew enough" ... it was obvious she was also quite irritated in her first e-mail response ... and clearly that didn't change. Then she lied and told me she didn't have time to work with me while picking up a new paritcipant the next day. It was obvious she was completely irritated with me and didn't want to work with me at all. No big deal - just say it like it is! So much for "honesty". I knew after her email that my request for information abut my options - had triggered some bizarre mess.
You know it is hard enough to ask for ones needs - and then to be slammed by this whole - 'enlightened community' - amazing! Beyond being great theater ... Whatever this process was - it certainly showed me seeing thru the "I" doesn't mean conditioning is done.
You keep - trying - to be kind - however I feel that you actually - love - your - tough love stick - which I felt from the beginning -and of course later you -kindly- informed me how upset all the guides were behind the scene. This kind of reactivity - all over a simple request for information on what my options might be - is pure insanity. You let me know how much you got from a 'cruel' teacher - that alone is rather frightening. No wonder you believe in that approach.
There was a LOT of backlash at me for - ASKING AN - HONEST - QUESTION - EG making the - request. The fact is - I have ZERO power in the situation - and your accusing me of "demanding" and in a previous post how dare I "make decisions" ... I am in NO position to make any decisions here - that is more than obvious.
I did 'lash out' after experiencing all the reactivity from the top down. The way my - request - was handled was rediculous from the get go. Eg there was plenty of reactivity from every corner. Let's see "cut the crap" ...really - this is all life - and I certainly do own that - I don't feel at all like showing up - after experiencing all of this DISOWNED SHADOW. There is a whole lot of MARTYRDOM going on around here.
It is amazing that this is freely offered ... however I certainly have had my ears full of the shadow side of this - 'FREE OFFERING'. No there is a price tag - the honesty - is only allowed to be great appreciation. My initial request was very respectful and appreciative and it was responded to like I arrived with a shot gun at headquarters. Sad.
YES - LET'S TURN THE TABLES ! If someone came to me for surf lessons ... I WOULD NEVER APPROACH THEM - like they are "responsible to show, SHUT UP ... and let (me) show what (they) need to do". Unbelievable way to approach someone about anything. And if they - got scared - and said for ANY reason - life whatever - that they didn't want to surf ... I would say I really understand - surfing can be really scary business - and they could stop for any reason - and I would say that was life happening. So NO I WOULDN'T CALL IT BULLSHIT in 2 seconds - THAT IS WHAT YOU WOULD DO - and are doing. So have at it. The "I" is always the issue and in the way etc - big deal.
No problem, I continue to have great respect for what is being attempted here - I just realize like everywhere shadows can still lurk - and very few have the courage to admit it.
Life is too big and amazing to carry on with this garbage - there is certainly no modeling of owning anything on your all side of the fence. It's fine the ocean is huge and all is very well here.
That is a HUGE amount of interpretation!!!
I did - show up .... I only wished - I had read and realized I could have requested a guide whose - style - I felt resonant with. What has happened beyond this is simply stunning!
I - "HONESTLY" - interpreted my experience and - HONESTLY - felt that my guide was not reading much of what I shared and that his style was quite "laser" like as someone who loved his work felt. Perfect - I/my conditioning felt differently - what a terrible person that makes me.
I went off line - sent a personal message to Illona - asking - what my options might be - given how I -"honestly" felt ... and I also sent a similar message - off line to my guide. I tried very hard to be kind and appreciative. WOW - what I got back was just shocking. The guide insisted that I tell him why I wanted another guide on line - by answering 4 questions - so I did.
Meanwhile - Illona first told me via e-mail - "you do the math" and figure it out for myself - that "I knew enough" ... it was obvious she was also quite irritated in her first e-mail response ... and clearly that didn't change. Then she lied and told me she didn't have time to work with me while picking up a new paritcipant the next day. It was obvious she was completely irritated with me and didn't want to work with me at all. No big deal - just say it like it is! So much for "honesty". I knew after her email that my request for information abut my options - had triggered some bizarre mess.
You know it is hard enough to ask for ones needs - and then to be slammed by this whole - 'enlightened community' - amazing! Beyond being great theater ... Whatever this process was - it certainly showed me seeing thru the "I" doesn't mean conditioning is done.
You keep - trying - to be kind - however I feel that you actually - love - your - tough love stick - which I felt from the beginning -and of course later you -kindly- informed me how upset all the guides were behind the scene. This kind of reactivity - all over a simple request for information on what my options might be - is pure insanity. You let me know how much you got from a 'cruel' teacher - that alone is rather frightening. No wonder you believe in that approach.
There was a LOT of backlash at me for - ASKING AN - HONEST - QUESTION - EG making the - request. The fact is - I have ZERO power in the situation - and your accusing me of "demanding" and in a previous post how dare I "make decisions" ... I am in NO position to make any decisions here - that is more than obvious.
I did 'lash out' after experiencing all the reactivity from the top down. The way my - request - was handled was rediculous from the get go. Eg there was plenty of reactivity from every corner. Let's see "cut the crap" ...really - this is all life - and I certainly do own that - I don't feel at all like showing up - after experiencing all of this DISOWNED SHADOW. There is a whole lot of MARTYRDOM going on around here.
It is amazing that this is freely offered ... however I certainly have had my ears full of the shadow side of this - 'FREE OFFERING'. No there is a price tag - the honesty - is only allowed to be great appreciation. My initial request was very respectful and appreciative and it was responded to like I arrived with a shot gun at headquarters. Sad.
YES - LET'S TURN THE TABLES ! If someone came to me for surf lessons ... I WOULD NEVER APPROACH THEM - like they are "responsible to show, SHUT UP ... and let (me) show what (they) need to do". Unbelievable way to approach someone about anything. And if they - got scared - and said for ANY reason - life whatever - that they didn't want to surf ... I would say I really understand - surfing can be really scary business - and they could stop for any reason - and I would say that was life happening. So NO I WOULDN'T CALL IT BULLSHIT in 2 seconds - THAT IS WHAT YOU WOULD DO - and are doing. So have at it. The "I" is always the issue and in the way etc - big deal.
No problem, I continue to have great respect for what is being attempted here - I just realize like everywhere shadows can still lurk - and very few have the courage to admit it.
Life is too big and amazing to carry on with this garbage - there is certainly no modeling of owning anything on your all side of the fence. It's fine the ocean is huge and all is very well here.
Re: New here - is a guide available ?
My teacher "loved" me enough, and cared for me enough to be ruthless and harsh and violent if that was what was needed.
What I thought was needed was for him to "love" me that way "I" wanted to be loved, in the right way, right order, right time....based on my whim.
He told me that this was the problem, that all my life I attempted to manipulate people into doing this, and explained it to me. I liked to be charming, a mommy's boy, and when that approach didn't work for me, and because I wasn't willing to go out in the real world and face pain and fears, I would either retreat to fantasy, or quit (and fail) to punish others who wouldn't give to me what I was unwilling to work for myself.
He said that what I wanted was to be coddled, and that if he did that, I would never reach outside of my programming and find out what I was or am capable of.
He said he didn't love the stick - he loved results. Me too.
Your quitting, your insistence on being a special snowflake who is so complex and can only be understood by the Great Ones, is a punishment to no one but yourself.
Psychological patterns hide in plain sight...no mysteries here. You are obvious, and you are demanding of special treatment.
I have no reason to harm you in order to get something...I have what I need and like.
Absolutely the very best to you on your journey. Regardless of where it takes you, you will have to cross this bridge again...to get out of your own way, stop fucking around and making drama and do the work.
What I thought was needed was for him to "love" me that way "I" wanted to be loved, in the right way, right order, right time....based on my whim.
He told me that this was the problem, that all my life I attempted to manipulate people into doing this, and explained it to me. I liked to be charming, a mommy's boy, and when that approach didn't work for me, and because I wasn't willing to go out in the real world and face pain and fears, I would either retreat to fantasy, or quit (and fail) to punish others who wouldn't give to me what I was unwilling to work for myself.
He said that what I wanted was to be coddled, and that if he did that, I would never reach outside of my programming and find out what I was or am capable of.
He said he didn't love the stick - he loved results. Me too.
Your quitting, your insistence on being a special snowflake who is so complex and can only be understood by the Great Ones, is a punishment to no one but yourself.
Psychological patterns hide in plain sight...no mysteries here. You are obvious, and you are demanding of special treatment.
I have no reason to harm you in order to get something...I have what I need and like.
Absolutely the very best to you on your journey. Regardless of where it takes you, you will have to cross this bridge again...to get out of your own way, stop fucking around and making drama and do the work.
Re: New here - is a guide available ?
Oh my - still carrying on - with your endless stories about 'me' (?) This is better than the soaps.
Illona suggested I leave = I was/am - following directions - which you all are really big on ... and which is something you - John - have failed to notice about 'me' ... this whole story about me being a special snowflake blah blah - talk about drama ! .... And - according to you - "I" need "great ones" (?) ... the 'ones' I've learned the most from have been the 'simplest' of people - living in very remote jungles ...knowing nothing of the word 'enlightenment'. Sadly, - or not - the ones who are so overly sure of - what they have to offer - and how screwed up another is - are the scariest 'teachers' of all.
Still - I am so glad - we have one thing we can agree on - I have nothing to offer - and I love that about me! What a relief! Life without a care! Being a super mess has some very real advantages! Suits me just fine.
It is also clear - you have no interest in what I have said - but far more in making me into some character - that you can blame, demonize and ...claim needs ever so much ' help'. Meanwhile, - life cares nothing of this blah blah And clearly - I do have what "I" need - and what I like - that is always the case - now isn't it (?)... It is just obvious this site is not it. Or any other for that matter. You all cured me of that desire. Or not. Thank you ever so much - that was short and sweet.
So - John - why don't - you - quit making - all this drama ??? I know you want to be really sure that - I - get it - how terrible a being I am - my goodness - what special gifts! No worries I absolutely agree - and receive - your certainties about me - with open arms. Yum Yum! I hope that makes you happy - oh I forgot you already are.
And then there are all the guides telling each other what a shit I am ... reassuring each other and all the - travelers of the same - what a way to handle something that would have been as simple as saying ... - you know we don't do that here - we feel that would be a distraction - perhaps you might just want to stop and then start again at another time ... But oh no - no such simple wisdom here - too many enlightened ones - for something that obvious. It doesn't matter this is just dream drama and we're all being danced - and if you think your enlightened and I'm lost - sounds like you've got another bridge to cross ... gate to go thru - or some other enlightenment or un-enlightenment - story to tell.
Finally, "fucking around" happens until it doesn't - and who the hell do you think - you are - to have any idea about an imaginary - when -where - or how it - should happen ... or even to - whom - it should happen. I forgot - your the enlightened/psychological and endlessly - caring - expert.
Anyway - - WHO CARES !!!??? Why do - you - bother going on and on about - me - .... I said aloha long ago ... like one guide says - I am wasting the important guides time. All this defensiveness coming from these guides - a 'teacher' once talked about this - and here it is in living color - eg -that's what happens - in a lot of collectives - if someone doesn't go along with the scripted program - the spiritual justifications start to fly and ... the entire community will go in for a mob linching and all sorts of defensive justifications - the back rooms are lovely places for such goings on - aren't they?
By the way, come on - there is no imaginary "bridge" to cross ... no gate to enter or get thru .... still it is sure fun thinking it is so .... and struggling endlessly to get there. Talk about drama. But as you say - the problem is all 'me' and my special snowflake complex. Your spending a lot of time analyzing behavior and in so doing you are - making it very very - real. So you've convinced me now - and I'll be sure to look for a - VERY special teacher - to 'help' melt "me" down - or I guess you feel it would be better if it was a bludgeoning - ok. Your the enlightened expert.
Meanwhile life is happy as pie and so am 'i' .... it doesn't give one hoot about all this shit hurling back and forth - it's just more entertainment. So I suggest having a good laugh!
Hey - while your at it why not - just delete the thread - since those in - 'real' power here - are so bothered by it. Your "right" and i am "wrong" ... that's the current story line - but hey - didn't 'you' warn about that?
Life has allowed this dance ... it's not 'worried' about 'me' ... it doesn't - think - something is 'wrong' - or right'. You could consider being just as generous ... it's just a - thought.
Really John - and anyone silly enough to be reading this trash - lighten up - go have some fun - quit telling such rediculous and 'dramatic' stories about no -one ...or even about "me" - or ... keep going - and enjoy the ride - both are fine - really very fine - with or without - your delightfully crazy little - "i". Poor thing - it get's blamed for everything!
Bye Bye.
Illona suggested I leave = I was/am - following directions - which you all are really big on ... and which is something you - John - have failed to notice about 'me' ... this whole story about me being a special snowflake blah blah - talk about drama ! .... And - according to you - "I" need "great ones" (?) ... the 'ones' I've learned the most from have been the 'simplest' of people - living in very remote jungles ...knowing nothing of the word 'enlightenment'. Sadly, - or not - the ones who are so overly sure of - what they have to offer - and how screwed up another is - are the scariest 'teachers' of all.
Still - I am so glad - we have one thing we can agree on - I have nothing to offer - and I love that about me! What a relief! Life without a care! Being a super mess has some very real advantages! Suits me just fine.
It is also clear - you have no interest in what I have said - but far more in making me into some character - that you can blame, demonize and ...claim needs ever so much ' help'. Meanwhile, - life cares nothing of this blah blah And clearly - I do have what "I" need - and what I like - that is always the case - now isn't it (?)... It is just obvious this site is not it. Or any other for that matter. You all cured me of that desire. Or not. Thank you ever so much - that was short and sweet.
So - John - why don't - you - quit making - all this drama ??? I know you want to be really sure that - I - get it - how terrible a being I am - my goodness - what special gifts! No worries I absolutely agree - and receive - your certainties about me - with open arms. Yum Yum! I hope that makes you happy - oh I forgot you already are.
And then there are all the guides telling each other what a shit I am ... reassuring each other and all the - travelers of the same - what a way to handle something that would have been as simple as saying ... - you know we don't do that here - we feel that would be a distraction - perhaps you might just want to stop and then start again at another time ... But oh no - no such simple wisdom here - too many enlightened ones - for something that obvious. It doesn't matter this is just dream drama and we're all being danced - and if you think your enlightened and I'm lost - sounds like you've got another bridge to cross ... gate to go thru - or some other enlightenment or un-enlightenment - story to tell.
Finally, "fucking around" happens until it doesn't - and who the hell do you think - you are - to have any idea about an imaginary - when -where - or how it - should happen ... or even to - whom - it should happen. I forgot - your the enlightened/psychological and endlessly - caring - expert.
Anyway - - WHO CARES !!!??? Why do - you - bother going on and on about - me - .... I said aloha long ago ... like one guide says - I am wasting the important guides time. All this defensiveness coming from these guides - a 'teacher' once talked about this - and here it is in living color - eg -that's what happens - in a lot of collectives - if someone doesn't go along with the scripted program - the spiritual justifications start to fly and ... the entire community will go in for a mob linching and all sorts of defensive justifications - the back rooms are lovely places for such goings on - aren't they?
By the way, come on - there is no imaginary "bridge" to cross ... no gate to enter or get thru .... still it is sure fun thinking it is so .... and struggling endlessly to get there. Talk about drama. But as you say - the problem is all 'me' and my special snowflake complex. Your spending a lot of time analyzing behavior and in so doing you are - making it very very - real. So you've convinced me now - and I'll be sure to look for a - VERY special teacher - to 'help' melt "me" down - or I guess you feel it would be better if it was a bludgeoning - ok. Your the enlightened expert.
Meanwhile life is happy as pie and so am 'i' .... it doesn't give one hoot about all this shit hurling back and forth - it's just more entertainment. So I suggest having a good laugh!
Hey - while your at it why not - just delete the thread - since those in - 'real' power here - are so bothered by it. Your "right" and i am "wrong" ... that's the current story line - but hey - didn't 'you' warn about that?
Life has allowed this dance ... it's not 'worried' about 'me' ... it doesn't - think - something is 'wrong' - or right'. You could consider being just as generous ... it's just a - thought.
Really John - and anyone silly enough to be reading this trash - lighten up - go have some fun - quit telling such rediculous and 'dramatic' stories about no -one ...or even about "me" - or ... keep going - and enjoy the ride - both are fine - really very fine - with or without - your delightfully crazy little - "i". Poor thing - it get's blamed for everything!
Bye Bye.
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