Ready, willing and hopefully able.

[Cam-RT]

Hey Finoh...

Dead bodies...Yup, that would "Bitch Slap" some reality into some clients! ;^)

Any way's once "The Self" is SEEN Game Over...as long as one actually see's for themselves and really understands the illusion, they're done. You can't do it intellectually you have to go there...

So this is where We need to confirm where you're at...
Please answer these questions (When ready) and feel free to elaborate as much as you feel fit on each response...

1) Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.

3) How does it feel to see this?

4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion.

5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

[Finoh]

Well this has been an interesting morning 3am local time. I must be thick (dense or slow mentally in US). I was having a look through some previous posts here

In essence what we are dealing with here, is a dysfunction of the thought process that in fact creates what appears to be a separate being ( A thought.) that points toward ownership/identity that in reality doesn't exist...

and suddenly I got that we create this separate being and there isn't one. It is so bloody obvious it is ridiculous now I know what awakened individuals mean when they say it is right in front of us and is so simple and subtle we miss it.

1) Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No and there never has been. Discussing the 'I', me etc is like talking about the quality, volume, taste and smell of water in a mirage..it doesn't exist, never has and never will. I feel like I have been the CEO of the Mirage Water Company and wondered why I wasn't making any money.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.

This thing, the "I" which is not a thing anyway but a mere thought, mere when you know it is a thought but a problem when you don't know it is a thought is this concept of an 'I' that seemingly has a separate existence. In this illusion the 'I" ( a thought) thinks it makes decisions and runs our life when life just runs anyway without any input. The "I" usually shows up after the event and then claims responsibility for the event occurring.

The 'I' starts when we start getting a handle on basic language, usually as a toddler when a lot of reinforcing starts on the me and mine. My teddy, my spoon, my bed etc. Kids go from JImmy is hungry to I am hungry and identification starts with this illusory "I". Gradually as more and more events take place in our lives as we develop the "I" take more and more responsibility and thereby get very entrenched in the existence of the "I" but once 'Santa' is seen as not real that is the end of it. Once it is seen as illusory it will still pop up but will be seen for the powerless illusion it is.

3) How does it feel to see this?

Well it only has just happened so ...put it this way there are sensations going on it the body that are unusual. My internal conversation though is "is it really this simple? Why didn't I see it before." I will wait a few days and post more once I have "gone for test drive and tried it out on the terrain". I would probably say excited stillness is occurring. I think it is something that I will need to sit with for a few days, find a park bench, get a german sounding name and bliss out. What will probably happen is I will be overwhelmed by the ordinariness of it all and just live life as I normally do with no "I" running it.

4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion.

I think the only way to try and describe it would be to use analogies. I favour analogies that show that life happens whether you believe in a separate being or not for example, driving a car and you suddenly swerve to miss something on the road, there was no 'I' present then, it only showed up to claim the event after it happened. When you wake up in the morning prior to thinking everything is perfect just as is then the thinking occurs "I need to do this, I have so much to do today etc".

I think I will post a detailed answer to this question later today.

5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

This particular quote,

In essence what we are dealing with here, is a dysfunction of the thought process that in fact creates what appears to be a separate being ( A thought.) that points toward ownership/identity that in reality doesn't exist...

It just sunk in that this so called separate being is a thought.

Thanks for all your help so far Cam-RT. I am still having "is this it" thoughts.

[Cam-RT]

Beautiful, my friend...

I too took a couple of day's to let it sink in having a couple of false starts, makes you wary of what has happened.

I'll let the other guides gave a look too and see if there are any more questions...

Take Care...

[Finoh]

Apologies for not getting back to you yesterday but I thought (well a thought arose) that I might just have the day off and 'let it sink in'.

As regards question 4.

4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion.

I mentioned earlier in a previous post that I would probably use an analogy. Until around the age of 2 or when we start to get a handle on using words there is just being / nothingness / awareness. Children are fully present in what they do. When a child is playing they are completely focussed on what they are playing at. They are not thinking, I hope I do this right, will I be able to do it next week, what will people think of me the way I am playing, I need better toys to do this really well etc. If their mother approaches while they are playing, they don't have conversations going on in there head about "mum has put on a bit of weight lately, I think she needs to go on a diet or why can't I have a better looking mum like Cindy or why can't she get a job so dad doesn't have to do so much overtime". There is usually just love or excitement there whatever the feeling occurring for them is at the present moment.

Once the child gets to experience the concept of 'I', 'me' and 'mine' then a lot of problems start occurring. The child starts to label things as 'me' and 'not me' and this is constantly reinforced by everyone around them whether by personal interactions or the media etc. A simple example it goes from 'cup' to my cup and gradually over a lifetime a massive build up of these labels occurs, my job, my wife/husband, my home, my beliefs, my church/ temple / mosque etc. All of this reinforces a sense of separation.

We are like a ball made of rubber bands, it feels like a ball, it bounces like a ball and looks like a ball BUT it is not a genuine rubber ball. The rubber bands are analogous to labels, illusory thoughts about the "I" and beliefs of separation. We just keep adding these 'rubber bands' to the ball and the more bands on the ball the more we think it is a real ball. The more rubber bands on the ball the happier we think we will be. It is only when something happens that we question this assumption that it is a genuine rubber ball that we see that maybe it is not the truth. We then start to deconstruct the ball ( "I") sometimes a rubber band at a time sometimes it might be all at once and when we get down to the last rubber band or so we see that it is in fact not a genuine rubber ball. It is NO THING, nothing. At the very core there is no "I" or "You" there.

The 'I' will aways be there in some form or another but it will not have the apparent influence it had before. Life will still be lived and things will go along as normal, probably same job, same friends and interests but the seeking will have stopped. The sense of separation and suffering will gradually or instantly in some cases be dissipated. Life will not be seen though the filter of an illusory "I". It will be like looking at life through a clean windscreen instead of seeing life through a dirty, mud covered, smeared windscreen.

Naturally the way you explain this would depend on who you are talking to and the ear of the auditor would have to be taken into account.

Thanks again for all your guidance Cam-RT. Once it occurred to me that the shift is not the same for everyone and that it can be quite subtle a quiet type of peace has set.

[Cam-RT]

Hello Finoh...

Yes, we were awaiting your response and yet there were no other questions as of yet, was there anything else you wanted to address?

[Finoh]

Sorry for the delay, I can relate to what you said in a previous post,

I too took a couple of day's to let it sink in having a couple of false starts, makes you wary of what has happened.

It still 'feels' if that is the right word a little bit strange. At least the conversation of, "this can't be it, it's too simple", has died down.

Cheers mate
Finoh

[Finoh]

In addition I have nothing else to address, all it clear.