Yes, I seem to have gotten myself confused with all this talk about the I sense and the spirit self. I admit that the I sense is also a fabrication made of the I thought and sensations. It is just that I have gotten so used to assuming that is "me" that I seem to keep falling back into doing exactly that.
Yes, and that will keep happening, because, guess what, there is no "you" to stop it from happening. Its habit and conditioning, same as everything else. The difference is, you can now notice it happening and go "Ah, there it goes again, well, what do you know?" The sense of I doesnt die, or dissapear, it is just seen that its an illusion ,and doesnt refer to anything real. the sense of I, concept of I, is a useful tool, thats all.
I looked into this again yesterday and continued doing it in bed after I woke up in the middle of the night while I was half awake. All that could be seen was that that sliver of life or immediate seeing that seems to be the only reality was impersonal with no trace of an "I". But our attention is immediately drawn to the thoughts and sensations at which point the feeling or thought of an "I" immediately arises.
Whos attention is is immediately draw to the thoughts and sensations? As mentioned above, its not bad or wrong if an I thought arises, it is what it is.
Somehow seeing this does not seem to have the impact necessary for me to completely give up the notion of an "I" as untrue. All that I can do is keep trying. At the same time I keep recalling what is said about this that liberation is here and now and that if one truly sees this clearly, then an immediate release from the "I" should follow. What exactly am I still not seeing? I admit that trying to see this clearly seems difficult to me. Whoever said that seeing this is a simple matter [Ramana Maharshi is supposed to have said that] must be off his rocker!
What are you still not seeing? I dont know. If you see that thoughts are automatic, decisions and actions are automatic, emotions are automatic, and theres no "you" doing any of them, then thats it.
Its like, when you were a child, you believed in santa claus. You believed that he came down the chimney at christmas, got all excited at the idea of presents. Then, when you found out it was a lie, you had an extra bit of information to work on. Thoughts still come up about santa claus, but you now know its a lie. You may even participate in continuing the lie to your own children, or dress up as santa for a xmas party, or whatever, while still knowing all the time that its a lie, a story. Similarly with self. You have gone along all your life believing in a separate self. When you see its not true, the belief is dropped. You still get thoughts about self, you still participate in the lie with other people, but whenever you look, you can see that its a lie, an illusion.
Returning to the other questions you asked me, such as personal volition, I do not see much difference between actions done while thinking about it and so called automatic actions. Thought do appear or seem to control action [or at least the main decision made before a sequence of actions carried out to some purpose] but since thoughts and decisions themselves appear out of nowhere and the I as the supposed originator is only added on as an afterthought, I can understand that our so called ideas of "control" are merely empty concepts.
You understand it, but do you SEE it? Do you see it in action? Do you recognise how automatic all your actions are? Look throughout the day until you do.
My reaction to what you said here was interesting. At first I was pissed, mildly angry. How dare you insinuate that I was not being totally honest! Then I started to laugh, is my mind playing tricks on me? Why should I feel pissed or defensive if there was not at least some truth to what you have said? But I still fail to understand something, I have spent over 20 years looking at this and over the years my reasons and motivation for doing so have changed or become more refined. Lying to myself consciously is the last thing I want to do, so why is it so difficult to really see this?
Its not exactly about lieing to yourself. I dont know what you have invested in your beliefs. It may scare the shit out of you that you dont exist, and theres no special self, no special thing to fall back on, so you cling to the idea of a spirit self. Thats dishonesty. Or it may be something else. Or you may be being totally honest, I dont really know.
It doesnt matter what thoughts come up about this. Just look and see if its true that theres no self? The mind will try and find all sorts of answers, but none of them will suffice, only seeing it clearly will.
Heres a test for your honesty. Tell me what comes up for you when you read the next sentence, I dont want the "correct" answers, but your immediate reactions to it
There is no self, in any way, shape or form. None, Never has been, never will be. You dont exist as a separate entity.
