Seeing through

[poppyseed]

Hi Irene,
Good looking! Let’s look directly at this assumed boundary between “inside” and “outside.”

The border is where all colour disappears (at the edges of the field of vision).
Thought says ‘everything that is seen visually is outside of me.’
Paying attention to the border brings up feeling of tingling at the skin of the face. Thought says ‘the tingling is the location of the border’.
I can’t find the border further than this.

Please find a quiet place, sit or lie down, close your eyes, and attend only to sensations.
Ignore thoughts and mental images as much as possible.

1. Take something cold from the fridge – like a can of cooldrink. When you touch the can, what does more accurately describe your experience:
a. Your fingers feeling cold because of touching a cold can; or
b. Coldness - sensation labelled “cold”?
With eyes closed, where does the cold appear? Observe the order in which the details appear

2. Sit comfortably on a chair. Close your eyes and relax. Pay attention only to the feeling of your body. Just notice the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images. Keep your eyes closed and look:
Can it be known how tall the body is?
Does the body have a weight or volume?
In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form? Do sensations have a definite size, shape, or weight?

Is there a boundary between the body and the chair? At the point where your body contacts the chair, are there two things there, a body and chair, or one, sensation (labelled “body on chair”)?
Can a boundary be found between the body and clothing?
Is it "my" body, or is it just a body?
Is there an inside or an outside? If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly? If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?
What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to? What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?
Without thought or mental imagery, can a body be found? Or are there only sensations appearing?
Can the 'body' do things?

Look very carefully, especially with the last question. You can look several times during the day while doing other things (like washing hands, showering, walking, lying down, etc) before replying.

Now bring attention to the tingling you previously called “the border.”
Does the tingling itself say “this is the edge of me”?
Does it contain an inside and an outside?
Does it form an actual continuous boundary?
Or is there sensation, followed by thought saying “skin,” “face,” “border,” and “me”?
Please report what is directly found, not what must logically be there.
We’ll do an open eyes exploration next time…
Love
Rali

[Storienie]

Hi Rali, here is my daily looking. It’s hard to remember to look during work or other activities, but when I sit down to it here is what I find.

1. Take something cold from the fridge – like a can of cooldrink. When you touch the can, what does more accurately describe your experience:
a. Your fingers feeling cold because of touching a cold can; or 
b. Coldness - sensation labelled “cold”? 
With eyes closed, where does the cold appear? Observe the order in which the details appear

b. Coldness sensation labelled “cold”
When ignoring thoughts, there is no other details than coldness. Even location seems to be thought, because it involves a mental image of space.

2. Sit comfortably on a chair. Close your eyes and relax. Pay attention only to the feeling of your body. Just notice the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images. Keep your eyes closed and look:
Can it be known how tall the body is?

No. Without looking at thoughts or mental images, the only thing left is feeling and seeing blackness, which don’t say anything about how tall the body is.

Does the body have a weight or volume?

The body just comes up as sensations of feeling. Without looking at thoughts, there is nothing else there apart from feeling.

In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form? Do sensations have a definite size, shape, or weight?

Without looking at thoughts, there is no definite body at all. There are sensations (feeling) floating in space with gaps of no sensation between them.

Sensations seem to be located at places, but I can’t take them apart from a mental image about a location (thought). The size of sensations is perceived, but I wouldn’t call them ‘definite’, more ‘blurry’ or ‘vague’

Is there a boundary between the body and the chair? At the point where your body contacts the chair, are there two things there, a body and chair, or one, sensation (labelled “body on chair”)?

One sensation (feeling) labelled “sitting on chair”.

Can a boundary be found between the body and clothing?

No, there is just sensation labeled “clothes on skin”.

Is it "my" body, or is it just a body?

Just the label “body” for the feelings of the body. When thinking “My body”, attention is directed to the same feelings as with the label “body”.

Is there an inside or an outside? If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly? If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?

With eyes closed and without paying attention to thoughts, there is no inside or outside.

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to? What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

There are sensations (feeling) of tingling, heartbeat, touching, breathing, moving. (Not paying attention to thoughts)

Without thought or mental imagery, can a body be found? Or are there only sensations appearing?

Just sensations appearing.

Can the 'body' do things?

No, sensations appear and there is no ‘body’ without the label appearing (which is thought).

Now bring attention to the tingling you previously called “the border.”
Does the tingling itself say “this is the edge of me”?

No

Does it contain an inside and an outside?

The tingling does not contain inside or outside, it’s just tingling.

Does it form an actual continuous boundary?

No, it’s like other sensations, floating in space with gaps in between. Attention is directed to some tingling and the rest falls away.

Or is there sensation, followed by thought saying “skin,” “face,” “border,” and “me”?

Yes, that’s it.

[poppyseed]

Hi Irene
This is very clear looking. You found no body apart from sensations and thought-labels. You also found no actual boundary, inside, or outside in the sensations themselves. Wonderful!

There are sensations (feeling) of tingling, heartbeat, touching, breathing, moving. (Not paying attention to thoughts)

Yes! The actual experience of the body is thought. Thought points to sensation and colour and labels it a ‘body’, but a body cannot be found as actual experience, only thoughts about a body.

There is one phrase to examine more closely:

Sensations floating in space.

When thought and mental imagery are ignored, is “space” actually experienced? Can space itself be found? Or are there simply sensations, with thought adding location, distance, gaps, and space?

Let’s take the body investigation one step deeper, especially around the assumed link between the seen image and felt sensations. Please go slowly and do each step before moving to the next. Take your time. Don't move to the next step until the previous one is clearly seen. Repeat the exercise several times.

Stand in front of a bigger mirror.
1. First, close the eyes and feel the sensations labelled ‘body’.

2. Then open the eyes and look into the mirror while still paying attention to the sensations. Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror? Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is?

3. While still paying attention to the sensations move one hand and observe the movement from the mirror. Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and image of movement in the mirror?

4. Now do the same movement with the hand, but this time look at the hand directly, not from the mirror. Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’? Or only thoughts suggest it?

5. Now, pay attention only to the image in the mirror. Does the image by itself suggest in any way that is ‘you’ or ‘your body’? Does the image itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘body’ at all? Or are there only colours and shapes?

6. Where the mirror ends, some parts of the body (probably legs) cannot be seen. Just by the image in the mirror, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest so?

7. Now turn away from the mirror and look forward (don’t look directly to any body parts). Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations?

8. Start to walk slowly.
Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?
Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all?
Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?
Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’?
Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?

9. Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labelled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?
Please report what is directly found at each step.

Love
Rali

[Storienie]

Hi Rali,
I’ll continue with the exercise this evening, but here is the looking for the first questions. It’s not entirely clear so I’m sending it in advance in case there is anything you want to point me to before I go on.

When thought and mental imagery are ignored, is “space” actually experienced? Can space itself be found? Or are there simply sensations, with thought adding location, distance, gaps, and space?

“space” is only a mental image and a label. When thought is ignored, there is sensations and the absence of sensations, but no “space”.

Looking again and examining “the absence of sensations”, I don’t find an absence of sensations. I find different sensations depending on what attention focuses on. “The absence of sensations” is a mental image/ thought of a location of sensations and the gaps found.

I’m not clear on this. It’s hard to distinguish the mental image of space from sensations. It’s clear that “space” is a label for a mental image. When ignoring thought, it seems like sensations are without a location, but it’s hard to be sure. I don’t know if it’s possible to fully ignore thought when looking for a location of sensations.

I’m not sure I’m expressing myself clearly, but what I’m trying to see is whether a sensation occupies the whole field of awareness (by which I don’t mean an “awareness” exists, but that all that appears is sensation, fully occupying attention) and whether it’s possible to feel only that, separate from the simultaneous mental imagery of a location, which makes it seem like the sensation has a location.
I pay attention to the sensation of “feet touching the ground” and simultaneously the sensation of “tingling of the skin of the face” is there and “hands holding the phone” and “body sitting on the couch”. All of it seems to be there at the same time, attention shifting from one to the other making them appear stronger or softer or not at all. When focusing only on the feeling of these sensations, they blend into each other and there is no thought about location.

[Storienie]

2. Then open the eyes and look into the mirror while still paying attention to the sensations. Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror? Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is?

No, the sensations and the images are both perceived- I almost write ‘superimposed in space’. Thought starts labeling ‘here’ and ‘inside’ and imagining whether feeling is ‘outside of the body the same as seeing’.

There is definitely sensation/ feeling.
There is also seeing.
There is also thought linking the two.
There is no sensations in the image seen.

Doing the exercise again and there is definitely no “connection” that isn’t thought. There is sensation, image, and thought.


I’ll leave it here and do the exercise a few more times tomorrow. I still doubt whether it is clearly seen or not.

[poppyseed]

Hi Irene
This is clear enough.
Notice what is happening now: thought is asking whether the seeing is clear, whether sensation has a location, whether thought has been fully ignored :)), and whether the exercise has been done correctly.
But before following those questions, actually, this is a good time to look at the idea of focus and attention. You say attention shifts between sensations, making some seem stronger and others weaker. Close your eyes and sit quietly for 10-15 minutes. Watch what focus does. Focus on focusing, attention itself.

Can the thing called “attention” be found?
Is there an entity moving it? Do you move it, or it moves by itself? What moves attention? Is thought in control of attention?
Can you decide what it will land on next?
Hold focus on breath - see how it moves to thoughts, sensations, feelings, sounds.
Is this something you control?
Or does a sound, sensation, image, or thought simply become prominent, and afterward thought says, “attention moved there”?
Is there anything more than sensation + thought that says “I’m doing this”?

Where is the “you” in the looking? What is looking made of?
There is what IS happening and the description of it (aka thought/attention). But where exactly is the look-er?

Try this now... Sit quietly and notice what becomes prominent next. A sound may stand out. Then a sensation. Then an image. Then a thought.
Was there a controller choosing the sequence?
Could the next focus be known before it happened?
Now look at the labels themselves.
“Sensation,” “seeing,” and “thought” are useful words for describing experience.
But are three separate things actually found?
At this moment, can a boundary be found where seeing ends and sensation begins?
Can a boundary be found where sensation ends and thought begins?
Or are those divisions added afterward by thought for the sake of describing what happened?
Do not replace the old story with a new story such as “everything is one” or “all is awareness.”
Just look. Before anything is named… Are there separate categories?
Is there an observer sorting experience into seeing, feeling, and thinking?
Or do the labels arrive after what is already happening?
And about doubt:
Can the one who doubts whether this is clearly seen be found?
Or is there simply a thought saying, “I still doubt whether this is clear”?
Please report what happens while looking, not what should be true.

Once this is clear, continue with the rest of the questions about body.

Love
Rali

[Storienie]

Hi Rali,
This is as far as I got yesterday. I will continue with the rest of the questions today!

Can the thing called “_**attention**_” be found?

No. What can be found is a sensation and thoughts/ labels for ‘attention’ or ‘focus’ or spacial imagery on top of the sensations.

Is there an entity moving it? Do you move it, or it moves by itself? What moves attention? Is thought in control of attention?

Sensations and thoughts appear by themselves. Thoughts appear that say ‘move attention here’ at the same time or before sensations appear (or increase in intensity). I can’t find anything that makes the thoughts or the sensations appear.
Sometimes sensations appear without a thought labeling attention.

Can you decide what it will land on next?

A thought can precede a sensation, but I don’t see that the thought causes the sensation.

Hold focus on breath - see how it moves to thoughts, sensations, feelings, sounds.
Is this something you control?

No, there is just feeling and hearing the breath.

Or does a sound, sensation, image, or thought simply become prominent, and afterward thought says, “attention moved there”?

Yes, or a thought says “now i will move attention… here” and then the sensation becomes prominent.

Is there anything more than sensation + thought that says “I’m doing this”?

No.

Where is the “you” in the looking? What is looking made of? **There is what IS happening and the description of it (aka thought/attention).** But where exactly is the look-er?

There are thoughts saying “you” “looker”, imagery of space in the head, feelings of tingling, feeling of breathing.

Other than that, there is no extra “looker” or “watcher” apart from the thoughts, seeing and feeling. There is a thought saying “there must be something more to find, how can things be seen if there is no one to see them?”. But I don’t find anything that observes, just sensation and colors.

[Storienie]

Hi Rali,

Here are the answers to the rest of the questions. I’m a bit tired, so perhaps looking into these questions at another time will be helpful.

Was there a controller choosing the sequence?

Not at all.

Could the next focus be known before it happened?

No, it all happens by itself, also focus.

Now look at the labels themselves.
“Sensation,” “seeing,” and “thought” are useful words for describing experience.
**But are three separate things actually found?**

First reaction is confusion. Thought says “Of course they are separate!”.

Hearing and thinking about hearing aren’t very different in experience. Seeing and hearing are different. That’s not the question though.

In experience, everything happens in the same place/space. That’s the “superimposed” thing I was having trouble with earlier. Thought labels direction, location, and the type of thing experienced (colour, sound, sensation). They are all different from each other, like in different dimensions, but are all things experienced in the same realm.

My writing doesnt sound very clear, perhaps your other questions will make it clearer. I am not sure how to approach this.

At this moment, can a boundary be found where seeing ends and sensation begins?

No, sensation and seeing are both there, superimposed.

Can a boundary be found where sensation ends and thought begins?

Also no, again superimposed.

Or are those divisions added afterward by thought for the sake of describing what happened?

In don’t notice thought adding divisions. Thought labels ‘feeling’ quite clearly with the word ‘feeling” and hearing with ‘sound’. Seeing just happens without labeling it seems. Thoughts and mental images pop up while looking around, not labeling ‘seeing’ but just going on in content about something random.

Before anything is named… Are there separate categories?

Before anything comes into attention, there are no separate categories already there. When something comes to attention, the sensation/seeing/hearing/thought appear. There are no separate categories standing separate from attention.

Is there an observer sorting experience into seeing, feeling, and thinking?

Things seem to appear as a sound/feeling/thought. Nothing is sorting stuff.

Or do the labels arrive after what is already happening?

After or simultaneously, yes.

Can the one who doubts whether this is clearly seen be found?

No, there are just thoughts expressing doubt.

Or is there simply a thought saying, “I still doubt whether this is clear”?

Yes

Please report what happens while looking, not what should be true.

This is what I’m finding while looking! A thought usually has an answer ready, but I check in experience before every answer.