seeking freedom

[graceabounds]

Good. The key point is here:

Look closely at that feeling that you can organize thoughts.

You already saw that you can’t choose the first thought and that you can’t predict the next thought. Now another thought appears l, for example “I should think positively.”

Did you create that thought, or did it simply appear like every other thought?

If it just appeared, where is the controller?

Take your prayer example. Tomorrow morning, don’t focus on whether you pray. Instead, watch for the very first thought, something like “Time to pray.”

Did you produce it, or did it simply arise?

The same applies while writing your article. Thoughts like “Start here” or “Edit that paragraph” may seem organized, but can you find anything actually organizing them, or is organization itself just another pattern appearing?

Adults appear more controlled than babies because conditioning is more complex, not because a separate controller has appeared.

So now take a look. When the thought arises, “I should redirect this negative thought,” did you create that thought? Or did it simply appear?

If it simply appeared, what exactly is doing the guiding? Answer only from direct experience. :)

[danielak]

Hi Becca,

I guess it's not a feeling that comes up when I look at the thought I can organize thoughts, but just another thought. I guess an assumption/pattern.

Yesterday I was trying to see how the sequenced thoughts happens, which looks like its predictability is a choice (made by a chooser) about the next thought, but I guess it's just pattern. no? That is what you're trying to say, no?
I cannot predict or choose the next thought even if it's a thought that I' know I'll have, like the prayer or what I'm gonna cook for lunch or about a task at work I have to do. I can tell that this thoughts are gonna come tomorrow, but The organization of them happens by itself, the patterns happens by itself.

If it simply appeared, what exactly is doing the guiding?

I cannot tell. I guess no-one, it's happening by itself.
So, when you ask me these questions I can see it clearly that thoughts just arise, but most part of my day I'm in auto pilot and it really feels that I'm the controller, like this clarity that there is no thinker doesn't happen naturally. I guess it's a process, yes?
Yesterday I watched for the first time the monthly meeting with Ilona. It was quite interesting. While she was saying that the seeker is trying to stop te suffering . For a moment I had am insight that the problem with the seeker is the thought that we need to seek lol. that was interesting. Even though I could see that, I'm still trying to make sense of all these.
And, just to you know, today I'm going for a trip with some friends, so it's possible that I won't write you back by Sunday or Monday. For sure if you send a msg I'll read and gonna be reflecting on it during my trip, but to write back, I like to have a quiet time alone and I don't think I'll gonna have that.
Thank you very much Becca! I'm enjoying this very much!!

[graceabounds]

Lets pivot to the body and see if this shines some light on that autopilot controller feeling:

1. Place both hands on a table in front of you, palms down.
2. When you have done that, rest for a moment and then raise one hand in the air but not the other.

Don't go to thoughts, examine your direct experience.

Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:
What is it exactly that is choosing which hand to raise?
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is doing the choosing?
What is it that is controlling the hand?
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
Can anything be found that makes the hand move?
How is the decision made?

:)

[graceabounds]

Looking back I gave you a similar exercise already, so here is some more to chew on for the weekend, until there is space to write…

Imagine for a moment a scene, one of a little mountain stream which is tumbling down a hillside gully, not far from its source. It has been raining and so the level is quite high.

Consider in your mind's eye, if you can, how it flows to the right over a little rock (where, had the level been lower, it would probably have gone around the rock), then the flow goes to the left over a tree bow, and then slows a little in a broader place, before splashing over a small cascade into a pool, and so on down the mountain side.

Does it choose any of its directions? Is it even really a separate entity different from the water deposited in it, the rocks, the depressions in the ground etc? Is it even the same entity moment by moment, or more the product of weather conditions and water, like an ever-changing pattern?

1. Can you find anywhere where 'Daniela’ autonomously intervenes into life, choosing something that is not the product of all the elements; that is not a part of the overall flow?

2. Now please consider a regular decision made such as what to wear in the morning, or what to eat for lunch, and describe to me what happens. There are environmental factors, there are color preferences (but where did those come from?? any autonomous intervention there?), practical issues (such as what is available), available time for preparation, purpose (eg; need to fill up for the day, or to look nice or presentable for that person!) etc. Where in there is an autonomous entity intervening in the flow of life? Can you find someone somewhere?

3. Can anything be found for which 'Daniela' is responsible – if so responsible to what and for what?

[danielak]

Hi Becca,

So, I did the hand exercise. It was interesting to notice it. I was moving my hands slow, then fast, changing the position of my hands as I was doing the movements. And I could not notice where was the controller. Again, it feels that there is an intentionality, the reason I was doing this movement was because you suggested , other wise I wouldn't be doing it. But at the same time I could not find what made me do it at the exactly moment, or the way I was moving the hand, or for how long, which hand started.... and also at some point I stoped and was doing other movement with my hands..I don't know where this decision came from.
After it, I'm trying to be more conscious about how my thoughts just appears and disappears or my body movements. It's clearer observing this when you give me an exercise to do, but I want to see if I can notice it during my day too.
I'll write later about the other exercise.
Thank you very much and I hope you had a great weekend!

[danielak]

1. Can you find anywhere where 'Daniela’ autonomously intervenes into life, choosing something that is not the product of all the elements; that is not a part of the overall flow?

This makes sense. And I get your point. the circumstances are part of my "decisions" or who I am. But as the stream example, the fact that the environment constitute the stream, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I can see more clearly that I don't have all the control I thought I had, about what I think, my movements, my choices... but I still feeling that there is a conscious intention... as to do the exercises you suggest me. At the same time it doesn't mean that my decisions are not part of overall flow. for sure they're influenced by circumstances.

Where in there is an autonomous entity intervening in the flow of life? Can you find someone somewhere?

No, I can't find this individual entity being influenced by the circumstances or intervening in life...as the stream example, I can't separate it from the environment, but all this combination of factores makes a stream exist. and that is what makes me sense that there is an I, a combination of body, mind, thoughts, experiences, circumstances ... But I guess this's not direct experience, right? So, I go to your next question

Can anything be found for which 'Daniela' is responsible – if so responsible to what and for what?

If I'm all that, there is not a piece that is responsible. I cannot find an entity.
Not sure if I understand what you mean by responsible, making decisions? Even though I cannot find a Daniela, I still have the idea that I'm making decisions , and it's about the circumstances that happens around me, for what is a good question..for feeling good, for what I think it's right...this's getting vage..not sure if I got it.

[graceabounds]

Even though I cannot find a Daniela, I still have the idea that I'm making decisions

Ok. Let’s look more precisely there.

The aim of the following exercise is to discover whether the function of choice can really be found or confirmed in actual experience. The idea of making ‘choices‘ is a very clear example of a function that we wrongly identify as the basis of our identity.

Here's what’s needed - a chair, a table and two different drinks. Any two drinks you like are okay for this: coffee, tea, milk, water, juices, smoothies, beer, wine, etc.

Preparation - Place the two drinks side by side on the table in front of you, sit comfortably on the chair and mentally label them as drink A and drink B.

Experiment - Finding the function of choice
Sit for a few moments, take a few relaxed breaths and let the dust settle. When you feel ready:
1. Look at drink A and at drink B. Think about their respective qualities, the things you like about them, compare and weigh the pros and cons of each. See if a preference is manifesting for one or the other.
2. Count to 5.
3. Choose one of the drinks. Pick it up and take a sip.

Questions:
Remember that we’re looking for some kind of function, a something, an ‘I’ which is doing the ‘choosing’.
In step 1 when thinking about their respective qualities, did you ‘choose’ the qualities? Or did they kind of appear by themselves? If some preferences manifested, did you ‘choose’ these preferences? Or did they just pop up by themselves?

In step 2 when you counted to 5, if the preferences took the back seat while the numbers took the front seat, did you ‘choose’ this sequence of event? Did you ‘choose’ to shut down the preferences to give way to the counting? Did you directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Have you seen this function in action?

In step 3 where you made a choice, did you actually witness or directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Did anything arise that announced, ‘I am the chooser’? If so, what does this function look like?

Sometimes we describe this sense of choosing as a ‘feeling’: It feels like ‘I’ did the ‘choosing’. But the question is, can a feeling ‘choose’? Is it in the nature of a feeling to ‘choose’?

[danielak]

when thinking about their respective qualities, did you ‘choose’ the qualities? Or did they kind of appear by themselves?

No, I didn't choose the qualities. When I thought of coffee, it came to me the smell, warmth, the taste, that wakes me up... they appeared to me, but based on a memory. Same with water.

f some preferences manifested, did you ‘choose’ these preferences? Or did they just pop up by themselves?

Before seeing this exercise I was already ready to have my morning coffee. So reflecting about before the exercise I didn't choose to have a coffee, it just pop up. And while doing the exercise I tried to consider the qualities of water to check what I really wanted. And the choice was made by a preference that just appeared.
I'm seeing that preferences just pop up and it can look like I'm choosing...

Did you ‘choose’ to shut down the preferences to give way to the counting?Did you directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Have you seen this function in action?

I didn't even noticed that I had to shut down the preference to count. I had to do the exercise again to notice it. And it was true, while counting I wasn't thinking about the preference, it happened "automatically" or better saying, by itself. There was no mental function choosing.

did you actually witness or directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Did anything arise that announced, ‘I am the chooser’? If so, what does this function look like?

Not at all! My direct experience was looking at the coffee and the water and noticing their qualities, the qualities appears in my mind based on my memory (because I know coffee I could remember the smell and taste and the sensation). I noticed that I had "made the decision" even before doing the exercise, I was ready for my coffee already. But there wasn't a chooser. There was a component of conditioning. That is what I do every morning.

can a feeling ‘choose’? Is it in the nature of a feeling to ‘choose’?

A feeling cannot choose, but a choice can be made based on how it feels, right? Like the coffee, it makes me feel awake, the taste feels good so the choice of having a coffee appears, or if I feel thirsty a preference for water would show up, right? It's so tempting to say that because I'm thirsty I'm choosing to drink water! That is actually happening right now, and I can see that the desire to go grab a glass of water simply appears... gosh, it makes sense, but requires getting used to this new perspective...