The Gate

Fantastic!
tick tock away :)

Hi Becca,

Try to find the clock...

1. Going just by the tick tock sound, do you find a clock present?

Thoughts say yessssss it's a clock right there, but pausing thoughts and going by sound there is no clock there, just sound.

2. Is there any direct/actual experience of a clock in the sound?

No.

3. Does the sound come self-labeled as originating from the clock?

No.

4. Do you find a clock hidden in the sound?

No.

5. Do you find a clock beyond the sound?

No, though i was not really sure what to do with this one.

6. In your direct/actual experience of the sound, do you find any evidence that the sound is caused by a clock?

No. Only thoughts say this is a clock.

Were you able to establish that in your direct/actual experience of the tick tock sound, that there was a clock?

No. No clock. Though it feels kind of weird, because I remember I put a clock there.

Were you able to find a division between hearing and sound?

No. Hearing seems to happen by itself simultaneous with sound.

Were you able to establish where hearing ended and sound begin, or was there just pure experience labeled as sound?

Just sound happening.

For a sound to be ‘known’ then there must be a ‘knowing’ (experience) of sound! Can a dividing line be found between the ‘knowing’ (experience) of the sound and the sound (known) itself? Or is there only ‘knowing known’?

I generally associate the word 'known' with the ability to recognise something e.g. in this case that sound = a clock. But that requires thought. I don't think you meant that kind of known in this question (right?)

If you mean, is there a separate 'process' to be aware of sound, or is sound and awareness of sound the same thing in my direct experience, then I experience it together, no separation detectable.

---

I've played around with other sounds like the commuter train, and same results.

And for extra experience I also tried this with a feeling that came up when I recalled a bad experience at work this week. Someone said something and I felt 'humiliated'.

I sat there and noticed the feeling, I looked for 'humiliated' in the feeling. Was there 'humiliated' hidden in that sensation?

No. It was just a sensation. It was really interesting to just let the sensation hang out there just a sensation, not self labeled, no 'humilation', nothing but a tight sensation that was there, and eventually went away.

I am very much looking forward to your next guidance! Thank you.

Grant

This is really excellent looking Grant, very precise. Extra credit for ‘humiliated.’ This is exactly how beliefs naturally surface to be seen and exposed.

Keep returning to the body in this way especially with what we could call charged events or moments and notice the mismatch between thought or label and direct experience. Is there a connection?

The sensation often simply wishes to move through, not be restricted or rationalized.


But back to the clock…

If you mean, is there a separate 'process' to be aware of sound, or is sound and awareness of sound the same thing in my direct experience, then I experience it together, no separation detectable.

Ah so is there a hearer??

Do you experience a sound getting closer to your range of hearing before you actually hear it? Where is it experienced?

Hi Becca,

Ah so is there a hearer??

On investigation, they just seem to appear. So no detectable hearer.

Do you experience a sound getting closer to your range of hearing before you actually hear it?

There is quiet sounds, louder sounds, Doppler shifted sound, that thought has learned and associated with distance and orientation. But on investigating there is only sound happening appearing, or not. I can't tell if there is a range. Just happening or not.

Where is it experienced?

I have no idea really. It's just here. I could try and label it, but that's just another label isn't it. Am I supposed to know?

Because whatever sight, thought, sensation, sound, taste, smell appears on or in, I just know it happens, but that is all I can really tell you.

I close eyes and open them and a world bursts in. I don't know where that occurs, or how. But it does.

Where is it experienced?

This is a sticky question for me. I keep thinking I am supposed to find something. If I keep looking I will find something that is experiencing all this.

Sounds are here. Appearing. In what I don't know.

I've done some direct looking before, and in direct experience I know sounds don't come from objects in direct experience. They are just 'here'. No thing is involved. They just appear.

I guess I am still looking for a thing like a 'me' that all the sensations are appearing to. Like I can't accept that it is just nothing behind it all.

It's very confusing.

Hi again Becca,

I am just sitting here listening to a storm and high winds and everything moving.

Again, it is happening without my help, without my doing, just coming and going, and it all doesnt care whether I know where it is coming from or going to.

I notice I am quite annoyed that I don't know where everything is appearing in. I feel like I should know something as basic as that, but I don't.

I read back on what you have said...

Now, now, now. What is here without the thought story.

What is behind 'annoyed'?

There's nothing but a sensation without the thought story.

I guess I am still looking for a thing like a 'me' that all the sensations are appearing to. Like I can't accept that it is just nothing behind it all.

Haha, the ‘I’ will never accept not being the center of all things. In control of all things.

But experientially the world does not arrive with an explanation attached.There is no direct experience of where seeing occurs. No direct experience of a “center” receiving it. No little mini-me behind the eyes.

The bursting-in happens effortlessly.

‘In the seen there is simply the seen’

‘In the heard there is simply the heard’

Not the heard IN anything or by anything or anywhere, as you have seen.


That irritation you feel, really examine it. Look at it, look behind it. What is it protecting?

Not knowing where experience appears is not a failure. You’re grasping because the scaffolding never existed and a reorientation needs to happen, is happening.

Whose thoughts are all these?

Hi Becca,

... experientially the world does not arrive with an explanation attached.

I appreciate you saying this. It's quite a comfort to leave this as a mystery and not to have to answer it.

That irritation you feel, really examine it. Look at it, look behind it. What is it protecting?

It's getting harder to bring this feeling back, and it seems like I'm making up stories to just answer the question.

But, it seems it is protecting a thought like 'what am I supposed to do now? What is my role here?'

It's a thought. The feeling is protecting a thought.

Whose thoughts are all these?

Immediately a thought jumped in with 'Mine!'.

I also realise that if you asked 'whose sounds are these' are these, I would have answered I don't know, they just appear.

So... why would thoughts be different.

They do seem more personal though.

Thank you again for your patient guidance.

Grant

Hi Grant,

But, it seems it is protecting a thought like 'what am I supposed to do now? What is my role here?'

It's a thought. The feeling is protecting a thought.

Which comes first?

And does any thought need protecting?

What is the body afraid would happen?

Immediately a thought jumped in with 'Mine!'.

I also realise that if you asked 'whose sounds are these' are these, I would have answered I don't know, they just appear.

So... why would thoughts be different.

They do seem more personal though.

I know a few times during this dialogue you have mentioned recognizing that you are not in control of thoughts, but let’s hone in and see if we can figure out what makes them any different from a sound appearing and disappearing.

Here is a thought exercise. Sit quietly for about 30 minutes and notice the arising thoughts. Just let them appear as they appear. Try your best to COMPLETELY ignore what they are saying and just notice how they appear without you doing anything at all.

Where are they coming from and going to?
Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?
Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?
Can you predict your next thought?
Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?
Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?
Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?
Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organized sequence? Or is that just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that ‘one
thought follows another thought’?

Hi Becca,

I'm having a good look at this one. I will reply to each of the questions a bit at a time as I test them out.

Where are they coming from and going to?

I don't find anything. No source that I can see, or sense. And they fade into nothing.

Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?

Tried a variety of periods. For example, I put out the strong intention to only have positive thoughts for 10 mins.

Nope can't do it. There is no controlling thoughts that come in. Tried shorter periods too. No control even for 30 seconds. Hilarious!

Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?

This is an interesting one. If I count to myself 1 2 3 4.. I know what is coming next did I chose that? That's not random.

But... did I chose the thought that started the count?

And the other numbers that followed did I chose them, or are they just conditioned responses to the first unchosen thought.

To answer the question it appears thoughts come in. No choice involved. Sometimes following familiar patterns. Often random stuff. And if I could chose I would chose not to have all the random stuff.

---

I'll continue with the other questions, and I am also having a look at whether there really is any difference between thoughts that I think I initiated and thoughts that just pop up. I believed there is a difference, but after the looking, maybe there isn't.

Hope you are having a great week.

Thank you.

Grant

Just another random thought. But I am sharing this one.

I got into work today after doing the exercise on the train and sat down at the computer and a thought...

"I think for a living. It's my job. "

Am I doing any of this. How can I notice on one hand, I don't control thoughts, and I then come to work and pretend like all my thoughts are ordered and deliberate.

I'm not worried, just noticing how crazy this all seems. I am glad I have your guidance here.

Grant

Hi Becca,

Here's the rest of the exercise results.

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?

No. They appear by themselves without effort on my part.

It is quite interesting that some seem more deliberate or personal while others don't. Both just appear.

Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

No.

Which comes first?

The feeling. Then a thought speculating on a reason.

And does any thought need protecting?

Strangely no.

What is the body afraid would happen?

I am not sure.

Very good Grant.

“1 2 3 4…” appears orderly and predictable.
But predictable is not the same as chosen. :)

Before “5” appeared, did you manufacture it? Or did recognition of the pattern simply continue automatically?

To answer the question it appears thoughts come in. No choice involved. Sometimes following familiar patterns. Often random stuff. And if I could chose I would chose not to have all the random stuff.

Exactly.
Yet thoughts appear regardless of preference.

Now look even closer. When a “decision” seems to happen, is that different?

For example “I’ll count now.”

Did you choose that impulse before it appeared?
Or did the intention itself simply arise uninvited?

"I think for a living. It's my job. "

Am I doing any of this. How can I notice on one hand, I don't control thoughts, and I then come to work and pretend like all my thoughts are ordered and deliberate.

lol

Do you actually pretend?

Or does highly conditioned, highly trained thinking simply happen?

The tennis pro is not internally issuing commands for every muscle contraction. The cat instinctively stalks and catches a mouse. The best moments at work probably already happen when “you” disappear into the task completely, right? Do ‘solutions’ to ‘problems’ simply appear, on the drive or train, in the shower, in the flow?

Afterward thought says “I did that.” But during it? Its just happening.

While working today, occasionally pause and look…
Before a useful thought appears, did a ‘you’ create it?

Watch it directly in tiny ordinary things:
reaching for the phone,
scratching an itch,
eating,
shifting posture,
deciding to stand up…

See if the sequence is ever
1. a separate controller,
2. independently authoring a thought,
3. before the thought appears.

And if not, relax and move over to the passenger seat. I promise everything still will go on as before…
;)

-Becca

Hi Becca,

See if the sequence is ever
1. a separate controller,
2. independently authoring a thought,
3. before the thought appears.

No, I can't find one if I look. And there are entire periods where it all flows and happens and those seem like the times when things are at their best.

I am working in a place where there is complex and difficult dynamics between people and organisations. Sometimes things that have been really hard and unpleasant shift all by themselves.

I see those moments and think did I do that? Did they finally get it? But deep down I know I didn't do it. It mysteriously orchestrated itself. Yes there was a role to play, but the big change wasn't me or my doing.

Ok. I don't author thought, I don't make decisions, I'm not in charge.

I'm left with a few questions here.

How come I feel so dissatisfied with life? It is not in my control after all. How futile to be unhappy with something you have no control over!

I feel so stuck now. I don't control anything, but I feel like life is on hold and is not all it could be. I feel like I should do something, but it also seems futile to try.

This is confusing and frustrating.

And if not, relax and move over to the passenger seat. I promise everything still will go on as before…

I am realising I am in the passenger seat for almost everything.

But there seems like a piece (conditioned thoughts?) that believes it should make life choices and has expectations about where those choices should lead.

Thank you again for your guidance. I can't express how much I appreciate you helping me.

Grant