The Gate

Hi Blanca

The object only exists as color, sensation, and the label bowl. There is no inherent "bowl-ness" beyond the shape.

Awesome looking! :)

Today in the shower, I looked around and saw blue (stone), felt warm and wet (water), felt slimy texture (shampoo), smelled a fragrance (soap), heard soft pattering (water falling on the floor), felt happy (thought + pleasant sensation).

Thank you for doing such wonderful looking! :) It is now to incorporate that looking into your everyday….make it a habit.

How does it feel to see what actually is?
Now, notice even subtler labelling – like “blue”, “warm”, “wet”, “slimy”.

When you say “blue”, what is actually there?
Is “blue” itself experienced? Or is there just colour, and the word “blue” is added?
Same with “warm” or “slimy”… Is “warm” the experience? Or is there a sensation, and “warm” is a label for it?
Look very carefully. Can raw experience be described exactly by words?
Or do words only point toward it (approximation of experience)?
Report what you find.

Experience can be likened to an abstract painting and if you look at an abstract painting you start to see shapes etc within the painting itself. Those shapes aren’t really there…but they SEEM (appear) to be. So from that perspective...do the shapes really exist? Are there many colours or just colour, just seeing

That is why I asked you to use the format of the cup of coffee example – that structure reveals the (whole) story (thought content) vs DE. Maybe you can give me one example of daily activity broken down to DE with each of your replies so we can make looking a habit. Like this:

Taking a shower
Seeing blue stones, simply = colour (seeing)
Feeling the warmness wetness of the water, simply = sensation (feeling)
Feeling the slimy texture of shampoo, simply = sensation (feeling)
Smelling the fragrance of the soap, simply = smell (smelling)
Hearing the soft pattering of water falling on the floor, simply = sound (hearing)
Feeling happy simply = thought (thinking) + sensation (feeling)
Thinking how amazing it is to be in DE, simply = thought (thinking)

Love
Rali

Hi Rali - Thank you for your thoughtful and kind response!

How does it feel to see what actually is?

It feels effortful, but mildly pleasant. In other words, it is still something I have to do intentionally and willfully, so it requires more effort than my normal way of thinking that is automatic. It feels pleasant in that it almost invokes a childlike curiosity that isn't there when I normally look.

When you say “blue”, what is actually there?
Is “blue” itself experienced? Or is there just colour, and the word “blue” is added?
Same with “warm” or “slimy”… Is “warm” the experience? Or is there a sensation, and “warm” is a label for it?

I think "blue" is just a wavelength that my eye takes in and my mind labels "blue." But someone else might see it differently. For example, some people are color-blind and don't see blue. Or it may be that someone else sees my "blue" as more of a grey color. Same with texture and temperature. Temperature can be relative. Someone who is really cold my experience my water temperature as cool to the touch. And someone else might describe the texture of the shampoo as "silky" or "viscous," rather than slimy. There might be technical definitions for something (like maybe blue is a wavelength of light of a particular size or viscous requires a certain percentage of liquid vs. solid particles), but that's not what comes to mind when I label something. I just label it automatically most times.

Okay, I see what you mean. :) My mind is applying labels to raw sensations that are inherently devoid of judgments like these. So the words can only point to an approximation of experience. They are the map, not the territory.

do the shapes really exist?

Not really, no. The colors and canvas exist, but not the interpretation my mind imposes on them.

Maybe you can give me one example of daily activity broken down to DE with each of your replies so we can make looking a habit.

Washing the dishes
Turning on the water and checking it for warmth = Sensation (feeling)
Looking for the nearest dirty dish = see seeing
Holding the dish under the water = Sensation (feeling)
Smelling the soap I use on the dishes = smell (smelling)
Hearing the water running = hear (hearing)
Feeling annoyed that there are so many dishes = sensation (feeling)
Mind wandering through different thoughts in the background = thought (thinking)

Does this reflect what you meant for this exercise?

Hi Blanca

Yes, that’s very good, but notice something.

Okay, I see what you mean. :) My mind is applying labels to raw sensations that are inherently devoid of judgments like these. So the words can only point to an approximation of experience. They are the map, not the territory.

Yes. You initially moved into explanations (wavelengths, colour blindness, definitions).
That’s all thought about experience. But right now, forget everything you know about “blue”.
Look at something.
Is a “wavelength” experienced? Or is there just colour/seeing?
Same with “warm”… Is relativity experienced? Or just sensation?
Stay with what is actually present, not what is known about it.

Your dishwashing example is good.
Now look closer at this part:

Feeling annoyed that there are so many dishes = sensation (feeling)

What is actually present there? Is “annoyance” found? Or is there sensation + thoughts about it?
Does the sensation announce in any way that it is “annoyance” or that is just an interpretation/ a conditioned thought?

Please keep giving me an example of a daily activity with each of your replies
Love
Rali

Hi Rali -

Yes. You initially moved into explanations (wavelengths, colour blindness, definitions).
That’s all thought about experience. But right now, forget everything you know about “blue”.
Look at something.
Is a “wavelength” experienced? Or is there just colour/seeing?
Same with “warm”… Is relativity experienced? Or just sensation?

It's funny how quickly and automatically I move to thoughts, even when I'm trying to just experience. I have a tendency to intellectualize everything. To answer your questions. No, a wavelength is not experienced in any meaningful sense. It is literally just seeing with a label applied on top. Relativity certainly isn't experienced. There is just sensation and label.

What is actually present there? Is “annoyance” found? Or is there sensation + thoughts about it?
Does the sensation announce in any way that it is “annoyance” or that is just an interpretation/ a conditioned thought?

It is definitely a conditioned thought. But I do feel it as an unpleasant sensation in my nervous system. I'm trying to get to the point where I see "unpleasant" as a label, but can't seem to because body experiences seem more real than anything else.

Please keep giving me an example of a daily activity with each of your replies.

Eating Cereal
Feeling hungry (sensation = feeling)
Looking for box of cereal and bowl (sensation = seeing)
Lifting box of cereal (sensation = feeling)
Grabbing bowl (sensation = feeling)
Hearing cereal pour into bowl (sensation = sound)
Smelling milk as i put it in the cereal bowl (sensation = smell)
Eating a bite of cereal (sensation = taste, feeling)

Hi Blanca
Good, this is very clear.

But I do feel it as an unpleasant sensation in my nervous system. I'm trying to get to the point where I see "unpleasant" as a label, but can't seem to because body experiences seem more real than anything else.

Right now, when that sensation is there… Where exactly is it located? Does the sensation have a clear boundary? Does it have a real location or location is also a label (mapped over the imagined body part)? Look carefully
Does it stay the same, or is it changing?
Look closely… Does the sensation itself say “I am unpleasant”? Where exactly is the "nervous system" in DE?
Or is there raw sensation plus a thought saying “this is unpleasant”
Stay with the raw sensation only, without the label. What is it actually like, before the word “unpleasant” is added?

Here are a couple of exercises that might help with that:
1. Take something cold from the fridge – like a can of cooldrink. When you touch the can, what does more accurately describe your experience:
a. Your fingers feeling cold because of touching a cold can; or
b. Coldness - sensation labelled “cold”? With eyes closed, where does the cold appear?
Observe the order in which the details appear
2. Sit comfortably on a chair. Close your eyes and relax. Pay attention only to the feeling of your body. Just notice the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images. Keep your eyes closed and look:
Can it be known how tall the body is?
Does the body have a weight or volume?
In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?
Is there a boundary between the body and the chair? At the point where your body contacts the chair, are there two things there, a body and chair, or one, sensation?
Is it "my" body, or is it just a body?
Is there an inside or an outside? If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly? If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?
What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to? What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?
Can the 'body' do things?

Look very carefully, especially with the last question. You can look several times during the day while doing other things (like washing hands, showering, walking, lying down, etc) before replying.

Feeling hungry (sensation = feeling)
Looking for box of cereal and bowl (sensation = seeing)
…
Hearing cereal pour into bowl (sensation = sound)

Very good! I just want to clarify that on this forum we label as a sensation only what is felt. For the rest of the senses we have colour/seeing, sound/hearing, taste/tasting, smell/smelling. This is not because I want to be particular, but to avoid confusion, because a lot of people read the threads as a means of an inquiry. As labels are not given but agreed upon, let’s stick to the DE labels:
Looking for box of cereal and bowl, simply = colour/seeing
Keep these coming! You're getting good at seeing the story vs DE
Love
Rali

Where exactly is it located? Does the sensation have a clear boundary? Does it have a real location or location is also a label (mapped over the imagined body part)? Look carefully
Does it stay the same, or is it changing?
Look closely… Does the sensation itself say “I am unpleasant”? Where exactly is the "nervous system" in DE?
Or is there raw sensation plus a thought saying “this is unpleasant”
Stay with the raw sensation only, without the label. What is it actually like, before the word “unpleasant” is added?

Actually no, it doesn't have a clear boundary. In therapy, they sometimes ask you to locate where you feel an uncomfortable sensation in the body, and I ALWAYS found this question confusing because I experienced it as a vague uncomfortable sensation in my body but I couldn't find it. So I would answer, but it always felt like I was making it up or lying. This is helping me understand why! There isn't a fixed location to the sensation at all. My identification of it in my nervous system is more an academic classification based on what I've learned about nervous systems than an actual direct experience! The direct experience is just the feeling that I discern to be unpleasant. Before the label, it's I genuinely don't know what it's actually like. I actually only just started recognizing it's even there. In the past, I wouldn't even be consciously aware of it. I would only react negatively to others without really understanding why, if that makes sense.

a. Your fingers feeling cold because of touching a cold can; or
b. Coldness - sensation labelled “cold”? With eyes closed, where does the cold appear?

The cold appears both at the can and at my fingertips, but I experience them as one thing that I label cold.

Can it be known how tall the body is?

No, not that I can experience directly.

Does the body have a weight or volume?

No, not that I can experience directly. Although sometimes if I'm tired, I will feel a sensation that I label as "heavy."

In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

No not at all, though I feel what I think are the edges of my body sometimes. But I don't feel a shape directly.

Is there a boundary between the body and the chair? At the point where your body contacts the chair, are there two things there, a body and chair, or one, sensation?

There is just the sensation. But my mind labels it as chair + body.

Is it "my" body, or is it just a body?

This one is difficult for me to even answer. I feel it as both my body and just a body. I feel both and don't know why.

Is there an inside or an outside? If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly? If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?

When I close my eyes and just LOOK I can't detect what is inside or outside. It all feels inside. Specifically inside my skull. But where in my skull, I don't know. The outside feels like the outside of my skin.

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to? What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

The word body as I experience it is just the collection of sensations I'm aware of.

Can the 'body' do things?

Yes. The body does things all the time outside of our conscious control.

Very good! I just want to clarify that on this forum we label as a sensation only what is felt.

Does this mean felt in the physical sense (like through touching)?

Reading a book in bed
Picking up a book (touch)
Smelling the pages (smell)
Seeing the words (seeing)
Interpreting the words (thought)
Seeing an image as a result of my interpretation (thought)
Feeling happy and at peace (thought + label)
Hearing my husband snoring next to me in bed (hearing)

Hi Blanca

This is very good looking. Let’s focus on two small things.
You said:

I feel it as both my body and just a body.

Look carefully:
What makes it feel like “my” body?
Is there anything in direct experience that says “this is mine”? What would the difference between the sensations “just body” and “my body” be in DE? The labels?
Check if the “my” exists anywhere outside of thought.

Does this mean felt in the physical sense (like through touching)?

Yes — here “sensation” means what is directly felt (like touch, pressure, temperature, etc.)
Now look at this:

Although sometimes if I'm tired, I will feel a sensation that I label as "heavy."

Does the sensation itself contain “heavy”, “tired” or “unpleasant”?
Or are those labels added after?
Stay with raw sensation again:
Without any words what is actually there?

One more:

When I close my eyes and just LOOK I can't detect what is inside or outside. It all feels inside. Specifically inside my skull. But where in my skull, I don't know. The outside feels like the outside of my skin.

Let’s take a closer look at the idea of the head, where it is believed thinking, seeing and all the other senses occur, but can a head be found as actual experience?

Please IGNORE all thoughts and mental images of ‘head’ and ‘fingers’ and just answer from actual experience. Close your eyes and take in a couple of deep breaths to settle the dust and keeping your eyes closed...
Press a finger down onto the top of the ‘head’. Notice what is actually present.
Is it a head, or is it just a sensation (labelled ‘pressure’) and thoughts ABOUT a head?

Do the same with a finger on each side of the head.
Is a head actually found, or are there just sensations again?
And is there anything between the pressure points, or are there just thoughts about something being in between them

Without thought, how big is your head?
Without thought, does it have an inside or an outside?
Without thought, does it have a location?

Yes. The body does things all the time outside of our conscious control.

We’ll look at this next…
Love
Rali

Hi Rali -

What makes it feel like “my” body?
Is there anything in direct experience that says “this is mine”? What would the difference between the sensations “just body” and “my body” be in DE? The labels?
Check if the “my” exists anywhere outside of thought.

I suppose I feel this is my body because I feel myself inside of it, but no one else is. But there isn't anything that I can directly experience beyond this that points to it being "mine." Only the thought label of mine.

Does the sensation itself contain “heavy”, “tired” or “unpleasant”?
Or are those labels added after?
Stay with raw sensation again:
Without any words what is actually there?

The sensation itself doesn't include a label, it's just something I recognize from previous patterns of sensations as "tired." I suppose it's just a label I applied to a sensation or collection of sensations. Without any words, there are just sensations that I label unpleasant. I understand this, but I haven't quite internalized it yet. I still attach to the label.

can a head be found as actual experience?

Ha! That was kind of cool, I just noticed it as a single sensation. Not fingers and head. When I did this, it was harder to feel my head. It didn't seem to exist at all.

And is there anything between the pressure points, or are there just thoughts about something being in between them

No there didn't seem to be anything between the fingers. Just the sensation of pressure. I didn't even have the thought about something being in between them. My awareness just focused on the pressure.

Without thought, how big is your head?
Without thought, does it have an inside or an outside?
Without thought, does it have a location?

Without thought, I have no idea how big my head is. But I'm having a harder time grasping the second and third questions. To me, it just stubbornly feels like of course there is an inside. It's where the voice in my head comes from. Where the thoughts live. In terms of a location, it's on my neck. Yes, these were more difficult.

Hi Blanca
Good looking! But let's address the elephant in the room :)

To me, it just stubbornly feels like of course there is an inside. It's where the voice in my head comes from. Where the thoughts live. In terms of a location, it's on my neck.

Right now, check directly. A thought appears…
Where exactly does it appear?
Can you find a location for it?
Does the thought come from somewhere?
Travel somewhere?
Or does it just… appear?
You said:

it’s on my neck

Check directly... Can a “neck” be found in actual experience right now?
Or is there just sensation + a thought/image “neck”?

Now look at the thought itself:
Does the thought actually appear on the neck?
Or is “on the neck” just another thought about it?

Look very carefully! A thought appears… does it have weight? Shape? A physical position?
Or is the location something added afterward by thought?
Don’t go with what feels obvious. Look at what is actually present.

Close your eyes and look again:
You say:

inside the head

Can an actual “inside” be found?
Where is the boundary between “inside” and “outside”? (Don’t think, LOOK!) Can you see it, touch it,… (not imagine it like the watermelon)? We are not talking about the sensation labelled “head or neck touching” as sensations don’t have borders (as you already saw)
Is there a line? A border? Or is there just sensations and thoughts about “inside”

That feeling of “it must be inside”, is that direct experience or a very familiar thought + mental image?
Look carefully. Don’t try to answer correctly. Just look and describe what is actually found.
Let's make it clear:
feels like, seems slike = thought
Nothing in DE is seems like or feels like - it's either here (clear as a day) or not.
Furthermore, you say:

where the voice in my head comes from

How is it known that thoughts have a voice, and that the voice is your voice?
How is it known that thoughts appear in your head and become the ‘voice in your head’?
Have you ever been able to record thoughts as they spontaneously arise and then play them back in order to hear them, and to hear that they are in your voice?
So do thoughts actually have a sound? Or is the ‘voice in the head’ simply thoughts about sound (a mental sound like with the watermelon)?
Can thoughts be felt, smelled, tasted, heard or seen, or are they just known?

Love
Rali

Where exactly does it appear?
Can you find a location for it?
Does the thought come from somewhere?
Travel somewhere?
Or does it just… appear?

It's definitely a thought that comes from somewhere. The thought doesn't seem to come from anywhere except habit, I think. It disappears when I'm not trying to locate myself.

Can a “neck” be found in actual experience right now?
Or is there just sensation + a thought/image “neck”?

There is a sensation and a thought/image of a neck. But I also think to myself, well of course it's a neck. If I went to the doctor and pointed at the part of my body where the neck is and I complained of a discomfort. The doctors would identify that as a neck. I know that's not the same thing as experiencing a neck, but it's where my mind keeps going to.

Does the thought actually appear on the neck?
Or is “on the neck” just another thought about it?

This is interesting. No, the thought doesn't appear in the nick. Only the sensation!

does it have weight? Shape? A physical position?
Or is the location something added afterward by thought?

I think of my thoughts as living in my head, but I also think that is a location that I apply retroactively.

Can an actual “inside” be found?
Where is the boundary between “inside” and “outside”? (Don’t think, LOOK!) Can you see it, touch it,… (not imagine it like the watermelon)? We are not talking about the sensation labelled “head or neck touching” as sensations don’t have borders (as you already saw)
Is there a line? A border? Or is there just sensations and thoughts about “inside”

No, there doesn't seem to be a boundary, just a thought that says inside. But my mind keeps thinking that the very outside layer of my skin is the border. This one is difficult for me to experience in any other way.

How is it known that thoughts have a voice, and that the voice is your voice?
How is it known that thoughts appear in your head and become the ‘voice in your head’?
Have you ever been able to record thoughts as they spontaneously arise and then play them back in order to hear them, and to hear that they are in your voice?
So do thoughts actually have a sound? Or is the ‘voice in the head’ simply thoughts about sound (a mental sound like with the watermelon)?
Can thoughts be felt, smelled, tasted, heard or seen, or are they just known?

No, actually. The "voice in my head" is just a thought labeled as such. Ha! I never realized it. It's just an old pattern of thought where if I don't immediately see a mental image in my thought that's a "voice." But of course there is no voice! Neat realization!

Hi Blanca

Very good looking!

There is a sensation and a thought/image of a neck. But I also think to myself, well of course it's a neck. If I went to the doctor and pointed at the part of my body where the neck is and I complained of a discomfort. The doctors would identify that as a neck. I know that's not the same thing as experiencing a neck, but it's where my mind keeps going to.

Yes, labels are useful for communication (like in the case with the doctor) but it doesn’t mean that “neck” exists on its own (like the apple) – there are sensations labelled “neck” and there is colour (which you can see in the mirror). There are also mental images of bones and skin, which are just thoughts. So it’s important to make a clear distinction between labels, DE and mental images/thoughts.
When it comes to labels and their usefulness, the analogy with the icons on your computer desktop comes handy. They are used as a visual representation of what is actually a binary code – zeros and ones - so you can make use of them. But is the icon of email really a box with mail in it?

No, there doesn't seem to be a boundary, just a thought that says inside. But my mind keeps thinking that the very outside layer of my skin is the border. This one is difficult for me to experience in any other way.

Yes, “skin” is there as a sensation and colour, but do they contain an inside and an outside or is that added by thought? Forget your biology knowledge, we are just interested in DE – what is here as senses, what is actually here. The rest is a story – be it scientific/new age/ spiritual/etc. It’s about what kind of desktop you are running :))

No, actually. The "voice in my head" is just a thought labeled as such. Ha! I never realized it. It's just an old pattern of thought where if I don't immediately see a mental image in my thought that's a "voice." But of course there is no voice! Neat realization!

That’s very good looking here! And we’ll come back to “my thoughts” (the thinker) after we look fully into “body”
Now…

Yes. The body does things all the time outside of our conscious control.

Here is an even deeper investigation of the body. Please follow each step, don't leave out any. Take your time. Don't move to the next step until the previous one is clearly seen. Repeat the exercise several times.
Stand in front of a bigger mirror.
1. First, close the eyes and feel the sensations labelled ‘body’.
2. Then open the eyes and look into the mirror while still paying attention to the sensations. Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror? Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is?
3. While still paying attention to the sensations move one hand and observe the movement from the mirror. Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and image of movement in the mirror?
4. Now do the same movement with the hand, but this time look at the hand directly, not from the mirror. Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’? Or only thoughts suggest it?
5. Now, pay attention only to the image in the mirror. Does the image by itself suggest in any way that is ‘you’ or ‘your body’? Does the image itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘body’ at all? Or are there only colours and shapes?
6. Where the mirror ends, some parts of the body (probably legs) cannot be seen. Just by the image in the mirror, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest so?
7. Now turn away from the mirror and look forward (don’t look directly to any body parts). Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations?
8. Start to walk slowly.
Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?
Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all?
Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?
Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’?
Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?
9. Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labelled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?

Love
Rali

But is the icon of email really a box with mail in it?

No, it’s only a representation of email. Not the email itself.

do they contain an inside and an outside or is that added by thought? Forget your biology knowledge, we are just interested in DE – what is here as senses, what is actually here.

If using only what I can experience directly through my senses, I cannot discern and inside or outside. Only a feeling I label skin.

Then open the eyes and look into the mirror while still paying attention to the sensations. Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror? Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is?

No, there is no real connection between the image in the mirror and the sensations I label body.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and image of movement in the mirror?

If I just focus on what I directly experience, there is no real connection between the sensations I feel as my hand and what I see in the mirror. Though I do feel a faint breeze on my hand from the movement.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’? Or only thoughts suggest it?

There is the faint breeze again, but other than that, I feel no more connection to my hand’s movement through direct experience than I did when I watched it in the mirror.

Does the image by itself suggest in any way that is ‘you’ or ‘your body’? Does the image itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘body’ at all? Or are there only colours and shapes?

The image is just shapes and colors but it does not suggest a body inherently. Though my brain turns it into a story of “my body.” Also, the body does have clear contours. I can detect visually what is “mine” and not mine.

#6 - There is only thoughts and a mental image and a sensation of the legs. I suppose everything about me is like this. Sensation, thought, and/or mental image that my mind turns into the story of me! There is nothing in the image alone to suggest there is something more than what I can see.

#7 There is only sensations. At first I thought I detected some fuzzy darkness in the out edges of my vision - almost like a frame of what I see, but when I checked again, it wasn’t there.

#8 This one was a little trickier for me because I can feel that slight breeze from movement and I can see in my peripheral vision that I am moving relative to the wall on my right. I can feel the pressure of my feet hitting the floor. Though I suppose that’s not really direct experience of the whole complicated act of walking. There is just sensation and label.

Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labelled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?

There is an image labeled room. When I think about it just through experience, there is just sensation without a reference point. It’s clearly my mind adding the label room and adding the label movement.

This was a tough one, Rali! Sometimes I think I’m just starting to glimpse a tiny bit into what you are pointing towards, but then my mind immediately snaps back into place like it’s treading a well-worn groove. Does that go away gradually with practice? I can never understand if this is something that you strengthen by repetition. Or if it doesn’t work this way.

As always, I am grateful for your patience.

Hi Blanca
This is very good looking. Now let’s address this part:

Sometimes I think I’m just starting to glimpse a tiny bit into what you are pointing towards, but then my mind immediately snaps back into place like it’s treading a well-worn groove.

Look carefully:
What is “snapping back”?
Is there something actually moving?
Or is there just a clear seeing and then thoughts appearing again?
Does anything really “go away”?
Or does what is always here simply get covered by thoughts?

Does that go away gradually with practice? I can never understand if this is something that you strengthen by repetition. Or if it doesn’t work this way.

Right now … Do you need practice to see that there is no actual “voice” in thoughts? That there is no clear boundary between inside and outside?
Or is that already obvious when you look?

This isn’t something you build over time. It’s something you notice, again and again, in direct experience. Each time you look, it is already the case. Nothing is being strengthened. Nothing is being developed. Just seen or not seen.

When you have two opposing views (i.e. view of reality) you have to keep checking their validity. What we are used to do is to check if a new idea fits with the rest of our beliefs and disregard it if it doesn’t (confirmation bias). This method saves energy so it was used for a really long time. Now we’ve added a second method for dealing with opposing concepts – to check with our senses which one truly describes what is happening. The “stubbornness” comes from that confirmation bias as you have not just one thought but a system of thoughts forming your view/belief system of reality. It’s obvious that there will be resistance to that. So to reduce the resistance you need to painstakingly examine all thoughts one by one as they appear in order for thoughts to self-organise and form a new core of beliefs. And I underlie self-organise as this is not in your control, it just happens. I’ve basically introduced a virus thought (LOOK!) that causes all thoughts to be reorganised around the experience :)

Let’s address thinking as in:

My mind, my body, my thoughts and my feelings.

For the next exercise I want you to sit somewhere quiet and observe thoughts.
A thought appears.
In that moment is there anyone or anything which recognises the thought or is being aware of it?
Can you see anything that is separate from the thought and does the thinking?
Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear? Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead? Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?
Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?
Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?

Is there anything that is responsible for the thoughts like a traffic cop saying which one to go and which one to stay? Can the flow of thoughts be changed?
Where do thoughts appear from? Where are they coming from and going to? Do they appear randomly or in a structured way? Watch like a hawk.

Write down a sequence of 5 thoughts in the order that they appear. Now check:
Could you predict the order of their appearance?
Did you know which will be the second or the fourth?
Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing? Can you stop thinking a thought in the middle? How long does that last? Test it for the fun of exploration.
It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence. Or is it just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that "one thought follows another thought"?

Are thoughts 100% true?
What are you, when you don't think about what you are?
Love
Rali

Hey Blanca
I just wanted to let you know that I'm flying today and tomorrow so I will be able to answer after Friday

Love
Rali

Hi Rali - I apologize for not responding yesterday. I was so exhausted I went to bed very early. Although even as I went to bed, I found myself asking "what is exhaustion?" Just a label over a sensation in my body. Then I thought, whose body? But I was too tired to keep looking. Still, I think the virus analogy makes a lot of sense to me.

And thank you for letting me know you'll be offline for a couple of days. It is very thoughtful as I might have gotten a bit worried. I hope you had a good flight and arrived at your destination safely.

Look carefully:
What is “snapping back”?
Is there something actually moving?
Or is there just a clear seeing and then thoughts appearing again?
Does anything really “go away”?
Or does what is always here simply get covered by thoughts?

Upon looking again, you're right that it doesn't "snap back." It's closer to "I'm able to open my eyes to see the truth but then my eyelids immediately close again." It is indeed that thoughts come back to obscure the seeing.

Right now … Do you need practice to see that there is no actual “voice” in thoughts? That there is no clear boundary between inside and outside?
Or is that already obvious when you look?

I would say that I don't need practice to see that there is no voice in thoughts. But seeing that there is no boundary between inside and outside is a lot harder. It's like the first one is something I can see well because it's right next to me, but the second one I have to strain and squint to see because it's further away.

It’s obvious that there will be resistance to that. So to reduce the resistance you need to painstakingly examine all thoughts one by one as they appear in order for thoughts to self-organise and form a new core of beliefs. And I underlie self-organise as this is not in your control, it just happens. I’ve basically introduced a virus thought (LOOK!) that causes all thoughts to be reorganised around the experience :)

I see now why you said at the start that this would likely be a gradual and subtle process. That used to make me feel impatient, but I don't anymore.

In that moment is there anyone or anything which recognises the thought or is being aware of it?

My mind stubbornly insists that it is me that recognizes it.

Can you see anything that is separate from the thought and does the thinking?

No, I don't see anything like this directly, though I imagine something in front of "me" as the thought/image. Almost like an invisible screen the thought is projecting onto.

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear? Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?

No, though don't we influence what we think about? For example, I could have looked to my left and seen something that sparks a thought about whatever I laid eyes on. Even if I dont' know why I turned my head to the left, it still impacted my next thought.

Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?
Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?

Ha! I wish... :) But no, I can't. At best, I can suppress a thought by training my attention elsewhere.

Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?

Oh my goodness, my brain glitched when I read this. NO I CAN'T. I don't know why the other questions didn't naturally lead me to conclude this, but it still surprised me.

Is there anything that is responsible for the thoughts like a traffic cop saying which one to go and which one to stay? Can the flow of thoughts be changed?
Where do thoughts appear from? Where are they coming from and going to? Do they appear randomly or in a structured way?

I think sometimes about how when a disturbing or negative thought comes to mind, another thought will emerge that attempts to "interrupt" the negative thought, so in a way it feels like yes, there can be a cop there trying to direct the traffic, but mostly no, the traffic cop isn't there. One thing I do recognize for certain is that the thoughts mostly don't come from anywhere and they disappear right back into nothingness once they've cycled through my awareness. They definitely appear mostly randomly, though many times I can follow a "train of thought" that led to me to thinking about what I ended up thinking about, if that makes sense.

Could you predict the order of their appearance?
Did you know which will be the second or the fourth?
Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing? Can you stop thinking a thought in the middle? How long does that last? Test it for the fun of exploration.
It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence. Or is it just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that "one thought follows another thought"?

That was an interesting exercise. I definitely couldn't predict their order of appearance or what thought would emerge second or fourth or any order. No, I can't stop a thought from popping into my head. Though I would have said before that you could. But I just thought to myself "Don't think of a pink elephant" and of course all I could think about is a pink elephant. I couldn't even interrupt it a little. But it does feel like I can purposely distract away from thoughts, which is kind of like stopping or changing my thoughts. And yes, the idea that the thoughts follow logically and sequentially is just another thought. Only a couple of the thoughts I wrote down were even connected to one another.

Are thoughts 100% true?
What are you, when you don't think about what you are?

My thoughts are not 100% but they are 100% real as mental events, and my mind sometimes interprets real = true. Never realized that before! :)

When I don't think about what I am, I am nothing. Just awareness. But I think constantly about "myself' so it feels like "I'm" always there.