Seeking guidance in direct seeing and dissolving the selfing mechanism

[Elad]

Hi Mila!

I will certainly not give up on you. Being lost in thought most of the time is the normal starting place. And - genuinely - for people with more complex developed thinking that is useful in analytical and philosophical contexts, it can be extra challanging cause the mind can find endless counter-arguments and subtle ways to keep thinking and creating stories rather then just attending to what is. And it can be in one way less obvious when it is a sharp mind. In any case, don't give that more thought. Here is what is important:

Notice you are not in control of everything you wrote. It is all evidence of the lack of a self in control. It is not YOUR failure, cause that would assume a failing you. It is just habits happening. Nothing needs to change, just to see it for what it is, again and again.

Here is the next set of questions to work with:

Observing thoughts

Here is a thought exercise. Sit quietly for about 20 minutes and notice the arising thoughts.
Just let them appear as they appear. Try your best to COMPLETELY ignore what they are
saying and just notice how they appear without you doing anything at all.

After this period, continue looking at thoughts in the same way and answer these questions:

Where are they coming from and going to?

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?

Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment
instead?

Can you predict your next thought?

Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?

Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?

Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?

Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

Are you in control of thought or does it happen by itself?

[Milamoh]

Greetings Elad

I hope you are well.

Notice you are not in control of everything you wrote. It is all evidence of the lack of a self in control. It is not YOUR failure, cause that would assume a failing you. It is just habits happening. Nothing needs to change, just to see it for what it is, again and again.

This really hit me - and to use language what I would say is I saw as I read it ... the fact that all that was written was after the fact. What was, had already happened and the one typing about experiences was the character - if you know what I mean - the conglomerate of ... I would also put it this way to you, it felt as if there is experiencing in the frontier and then the interpretation of those experiences ... as this or that... so the "me" or "what is" is thin (I dont know how to put this in any other way) it is really really thin (the happening without interpretation is whats here) and the language and thinking and communication is thick and dense and comes after the thin continues to be itself in the frontline so to speak

Here is a thought exercise. Sit quietly for about 20 minutes and notice the arising thoughts.
Just let them appear as they appear. Try your best to COMPLETELY ignore what they are
saying and just notice how they appear without you doing anything at all.

After this period, continue looking at thoughts in the same way and answer these questions:

Where are they coming from and going to?

They pop in .. I cant tell where they are from. Its like energy arising ... and then mind makes meaning .. colours ... What I noted is some relate to what has already happened, some are really completely random and in the form of images, some are planning type of thoughts. If you indulge my mind I would say the ones from what has already happened are residue from what has already happened just that my mind colours them with meaning and interpretation about what needs to happen, why it happened blah blah but ultimately it is all energy that rises and falls -oh dear! mind is also saying they are exactly what forms the character - only seeing this now as I type, because these are what then gets referenced - giving continuity to "a person"

So this colour is thought what there really is ..is seeing, Taste is thought what there really is is sense, hearing is thought what there really is is ..am pausing here... is there really sound? is it really there...its like there is something but I dont really know what it is seems different from seeing ... energetically seems different ... am listening to cars right now and is it something I see in the mind ... why does it feel like seeing ... its like seeing is not the seeing we talk about ... I need to stay with this one a bit more theres something here ... some funny sense

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?

No, I definitely didnt , gosh so weird what am realising now .. I have done this exercise so so many times - never had goosebumps and some funny sense in the body - oh also had weird energy stuff happening on the bed last night.. I stayed with the sensation and the vibrations, the body was jerking or shaking a bit ... I Just thought maybe its energy releasing ... I dont know really

Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?

This was a bit of a tricky one for me - this is what my felt experience was like - although I say tricky - the answer is no but let me explain. Any planned thought or intention of thought came from an existing experience or some referenced thing, or situation, when I thought I am planning a certain thought - there was already a planner - planning .. but I was seeing that planner too ... more like I was sensing the planner too .. Maybe this planner was claiming to be me thats why I say it was tricky ...

Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?

No

Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?

No

Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

No

Are you in control of thought or does it happen by itself?

Happens by itself

There is no separate self, no one in control, there never has been and never will be!

This is a thought - this is energy that rises when I verbalise this - thats the movement here - then mind gives it meaning

Elad, I had a sense that when I am looking at things I am looking at 1. Mind. 2. Things in mind are made up so ultimately I am looking at nothing ... there is nothing out here is there?

With Love - may I share in this expression
Mila

[Elad]

I hope you are well.

Notice you are not in control of everything you wrote. It is all evidence of the lack of a self in control. It is not YOUR failure, cause that would assume a failing you. It is just habits happening. Nothing needs to change, just to see it for what it is, again and again.

This really hit me - and to use language what I would say is I saw as I read it ... the fact that all that was written was after the fact. What was, had already happened and the one typing about experiences was the character

Great! Clarity deepening.

They pop in .. I cant tell where they are from.

Clear seeing here.

Its like energy arising ... and then mind makes meaning .. colours ... What I noted is some relate to what has already happened, some are really completely random and in the form of images, some are planning type of thoughts. If you indulge my mind I would say the ones from what has already happened are residue from what has already happened just that my mind colours them with meaning and interpretation about what needs to happen, why it happened blah blah but ultimately it is all energy that rises and falls -oh dear! mind is also saying they are exactly what forms the character - only seeing this now as I type, because these are what then gets referenced - giving continuity to "a person"

Good good. The differentiation of thought types can be useful in everyday life, but for awakening, the most important thing is to see that they are all ultimately spontaneous and not chosen/controlled. This also goes for the thoughts/beliefs that explain why some thoughts are there.

So this colour is thought what there really is ..is seeing, Taste is thought what there really is is sense, hearing is thought what there really is is ..am pausing here... is there really sound? is it really there...its like there is something but I dont really know what it is seems different from seeing ... energetically seems different ... am listening to cars right now and is it something I see in the mind ... why does it feel like seeing ... its like seeing is not the seeing we talk about ... I need to stay with this one a bit more theres something here ... some funny sense

You can write more about this if it changes/moves or just let it continue doing its own thing, it will anyhow...

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?

No, I definitely didnt

Right on!

, gosh so weird what am realising now .. I have done this exercise so so many times - never had goosebumps and some funny sense in the body - oh also had weird energy stuff happening on the bed last night.. I stayed with the sensation and the vibrations, the body was jerking or shaking a bit ... I Just thought maybe its energy releasing ... I dont know really

Great, as this "sinks in experientially" all kinds of energetic and bodily stuff can come and go. Just enjoy, let it be, let it pass thorugh, it will come and go on its own.

Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?

This was a bit of a tricky one for me - this is what my felt experience was like - although I say tricky - the answer is no but let me explain. Any planned thought or intention of thought came from an existing experience or some referenced thing, or situation, when I thought I am planning a certain thought - there was already a planner - planning .. but I was seeing that planner too ... more like I was sensing the planner too .. Maybe this planner was claiming to be me thats why I say it was tricky ...

So lets simplify: Try right now several times to count down from 3 and on the count of zero either think a positive thought or a negative thought. Look closely where does the decision come from? Is it something you control, or on closer inspection it just happens?

And do the same with "planning" count down from 3 to 0 and on 0 either plan something or don't. Planning happens - but what decides if planning happens? Is it you or it just happens/happens according to innumerable conditions beyond our understanding?

Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?

No

Exactly

Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?

No

Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

No

Are you in control of thought or does it happen by itself?

Happens by itself

Exactly!

There is no separate self, no one in control, there never has been and never will be!

This is a thought - this is energy that rises when I verbalise this - thats the movement here - then mind gives it meaning

Elad, I had a sense that when I am looking at things I am looking at 1. Mind. 2. Things in mind are made up so ultimately I am looking at nothing ... there is nothing out here is there?

Out here as in outside of what? Or inside of what? Is there anything that is not "experience, neither subject nor object"? Are there any truly existing separate subjects or objects?


And specifically, is it true, that there is no separate self controlling thoughts, feelings, sensations, attention and awareness?

With Love - may I share in this expression
Mila

🤍🙏🍃

[Milamoh]

Greetings Elad

I will certainly not give up on you.

Thank you for this

Good good. The differentiation of thought types can be useful in everyday life, but for awakening, the most important thing is to see that they are all ultimately spontaneous and not chosen/controlled. This also goes for the thoughts/beliefs that explain why some thoughts are there.

I smiled here … I see that you were showing me how meaning (belief) was again being made which created a layer on top of what already just was

So this colour is thought what there really is ..is seeing, Taste is thought what there really is is sense, hearing is thought what there really is is ..am pausing here... is there really sound? is it really there...its like there is something but I dont really know what it is seems different from seeing ... energetically seems different ... am listening to cars right now and is it something I see in the mind ... why does it feel like seeing ... its like seeing is not the seeing we talk about ... I need to stay with this one a bit more theres something here ... some funny sense

You can write more about this if it changes/moves or just let it continue doing its own thing, it will anyhow...

I did more of the seeing into the visual field.. and this is what I sat with, when eyes were open the character was active, possible beliefs active, mind active therefore a little distance is more active and referencing back of there and here active.. so I did the exercise of I see the labels … yes … now I (character active) try to see without the labels.. and for the first time I kind of saw what is meant by things appearing on the screen, as I type the experience itself is fading … like I cant catch it again but ultimately what I am trying to convey is that there seemed to be clarity that mind is placing a frame because when I close my eyes there is blank experience – which also can be seen through one eye open one closed. However even in one eye open one close ..there referencing to the body remained.

I got to the above exercise because I was trying to understand the sound thing and what I got to is that it seems like sound is an immediate ripple… faster than the ripple that happens when I am looking at a moving person. When I am looking at a moving person there seems to be first me (I) character, then another layer of them , the person, then another layer of movement – and this is the ripple. Three ripples in the field, three layers of arising and then meaning made … maybe four layers, but when I am meditating and I am still (character) is still, eyes are shut so less sensory data – the ripple is immediate – meaning less dense
So now I am sitting with all that is happening are ripples – layers of energy ripples, taste a ripple, colour a ripple, sound a ripple, and ripples over ripples could be meaning making or angles of seeing the ripples , angles being seeing a ripple through a ripple, sensing seems to be seeing a ripple through a character that senses, otherwise there cant be sensing? My gosh

So lets simplify: Try right now several times to count down from 3 and on the count of zero either think a positive thought or a negative thought. Look closely where does the decision come from? Is it something you control, or on closer inspection it just happens?

And do the same with "planning" count down from 3 to 0 and on 0 either plan something or don't. Planning happens - but what decides if planning happens? Is it you or it just happens/happens according to innumerable conditions beyond our understanding?

So here again, I did the exercise in the evening after work and I just had the feeling that I am the one planning and intending – I was tired so missed the fact that the ripple was the one doing the exercise ofcourse I would get the sense that I was planning … but now in the wee hours with clean energy – I (Character) did it again, and I sat with the fact that first (I) was active ok tried to see beyond that but the actual trap was this “count down from 3 to )) had already activated an unintended character, doing, point of departure reference point … like there is no winning with this it subtly appeared from conditions of this engagement – so it happens from innumerable conditions indeed,
innumerable conditions beyond our understanding? Yes .. .. some of them I am referencing to this conversation but who knows who and how this conversation came to be – all of it was not planned by me (the character) … I paused here again … just realised I definitely did not plan for this planning conversation to happen it just happened from prior conditions a ripple that was building from ions – happening on its own culminating into this … a ripple… energy moving … shuuu what a thick reality …hmmmmm or not

Out here as in outside of what? Or inside of what? Is there anything that is not "experience, neither subject nor object"? Are there any truly existing separate subjects or objects?

There is no out there and in here or out here, they only exist because the ripple is referencing – in other words moving here and there. Back in our conversation you mentioned that the challenge will be bringing my attention back from thoughts to direct experience – in my direct experience when attention is moving and mind makes meaning of it – then out here and out there is created but all there is ,,is an experience of movement … a ripple

And specifically, is it true, that there is no separate self controlling thoughts, feelings, sensations, attention and awareness?

There is no self there is stillness or what feels like “just this”, "presence", then when a ripple happens (and I don’t know why it happens, or we agreed its "seems" due to innumerable conditions) a ripple can be a thought – there is another ripple that colours it with layers of other ripples like colour, texture, or meaning etc So there are no objects in direct experience, and in the layer after direct experience there are temporary arising of ripples – energy moving I would say … then …blah all story (the ripple was continuing in this typing)

So staying with direct experience - Short answer – there is no separate self

Really appreciate the ripple (Elad) that chooses to share this realisation with the ripple here (Mila)
This is the ripple happening today

[Elad]

Hey Mila

Good good. The differentiation of thought types can be useful in everyday life, but for awakening, the most important thing is to see that they are all ultimately spontaneous and not chosen/controlled. This also goes for the thoughts/beliefs that explain why some thoughts are there.

I smiled here … I see that you were showing me how meaning (belief) was again being made which created a layer on top of what already just was

Right on, exactly.

I did more of the seeing into the visual field.. and this is what I sat with, when eyes were open the character was active, possible beliefs active, mind active therefore a little distance is more active and referencing back of there and here active.. so I did the exercise of I see the labels … yes … now I (character active) try to see without the labels.. and for the first time I kind of saw what is meant by things appearing on the screen, as I type the experience itself is fading … like I cant catch it again but ultimately what I am trying to convey is that there seemed to be clarity that mind is placing a frame because when I close my eyes there is blank experience – which also can be seen through one eye open one closed. However even in one eye open one close ..there referencing to the body remained.

I got to the above exercise because I was trying to understand the sound thing and what I got to is that it seems like sound is an immediate ripple… faster than the ripple that happens when I am looking at a moving person. When I am looking at a moving person there seems to be first me (I) character, then another layer of them , the person, then another layer of movement – and this is the ripple. Three ripples in the field, three layers of arising and then meaning made … maybe four layers, but when I am meditating and I am still (character) is still, eyes are shut so less sensory data – the ripple is immediate – meaning less dense
So now I am sitting with all that is happening are ripples – layers of energy ripples, taste a ripple, colour a ripple, sound a ripple, and ripples over ripples could be meaning making or angles of seeing the ripples , angles being seeing a ripple through a ripple, sensing seems to be seeing a ripple through a character that senses, otherwise there cant be sensing? My gosh

All this can be valuable but can also get you lost in effort to describe subtle experience. The main thing in this exploration is to stay focused on if it really true that a real you doing and controlling things is an illusion.

So lets simplify: Try right now several times to count down from 3 and on the count of zero either think a positive thought or a negative thought. Look closely where does the decision come from? Is it something you control, or on closer inspection it just happens?

And do the same with "planning" count down from 3 to 0 and on 0 either plan something or don't. Planning happens - but what decides if planning happens? Is it you or it just happens/happens according to innumerable conditions beyond our understanding?

So here again, I did the exercise in the evening after work and I just had the feeling that I am the one planning and intending – I was tired so missed the fact that the ripple was the one doing the exercise ofcourse I would get the sense that I was planning … but now in the wee hours with clean energy – I (Character) did it again, and I sat with the fact that first (I) was active ok tried to see beyond that but the actual trap was this “count down from 3 to )) had already activated an unintended character, doing, point of departure reference point … like there is no winning with this it subtly appeared from conditions of this engagement – so it happens from innumerable conditions indeed,
innumerable conditions beyond our understanding? Yes .. .. some of them I am referencing to this conversation but who knows who and how this conversation came to be – all of it was not planned by me (the character) … I paused here again … just realised I definitely did not plan for this planning conversation to happen it just happened from prior conditions a ripple that was building from ions – happening on its own culminating into this … a ripple… energy moving … shuuu what a thick reality …hmmmmm or not

So this languaging of ripples and energy or causes and conditions, can all sometimes be good, but it is not needed. Making it too complicated. All questions I ask here can in essence be answered simple, with one or a few lines. And as long as it doesn't seem simple it is because attention is in thought trying to capture and describe instead of just what is. Try the exercise agan, find out and tell me what is true, try answer sharp, short and clear:


Ok lets simplify: Try right now several times to count down from 3 and on the count of zero either think a positive thought or a negative thought. Look closely where does the decision come from? Is it something you control, or on closer inspection it just happens?

And do the same with "planning" count down from 3 to 0 and on 0 either plan something or don't. Planning happens - but what decides if planning happens? Is it you or it just happens/happens?


Short clear answers please :)


-----

Out here as in outside of what? Or inside of what? Is there anything that is not "experience, neither subject nor object"? Are there any truly existing separate subjects or objects?

There is no out there and in here or out here,

Yes, that's it, simple.

they only exist because the ripple is referencing – in other words moving here and there. Back in our conversation you mentioned that the challenge will be bringing my attention back from thoughts to direct experience – in my direct experience when attention is moving and mind makes meaning of it – then out here and out there is created but all there is ,,is an experience of movement … a ripple

Can you see even the word ripple is a concept on top. We are not looking to be able to describe how reality works - that is science and philosophy, very useful in normal life, but not what awakening is. Return to ONLY if there is actually any separate self controlling anything or not.

And specifically, is it true, that there is no separate self controlling thoughts, feelings, sensations, attention and awareness?

There is no self there is stillness or what feels like “just this”, "presence"

That's it! Just stay with this and let it sink in, without trying to explain further how things work. And see how the further explaining and the belief that it is needed is also just habit of mind happening by itself without choice. Don't try to repress it, just se
e it for what it is.

then when a ripple happens (and I don’t know why it happens, or we agreed its "seems" due to innumerable conditions) a ripple can be a thought – there is another ripple that colours it with layers of other ripples like colour, texture, or meaning etc So there are no objects in direct experience, and in the layer after direct experience there are temporary arising of ripples – energy moving I would say … then …blah all story (the ripple was continuing in this typing)

I like how this ended - bla bla story. Same goes for when I said "innumerable causes and conditions" it was just a story I offered for the moment, a thorn to remove a thorn potentially, but not something to hold on to. We don't need stories and intellectual understanding to see that no self is found.

So staying with direct experience - Short answer – there is no separate self

Exactly!

Really appreciate the ripple (Elad) that chooses to share this realisation with the ripple here (Mila)
This is the ripple happening today

Appreciate you too Mila!! And can you see normal relational thoughts and feelings just happen without any real separate self doing any of it? And we don't need to invent another language to describe it, like ripples, or anything else, all though we can if we want... Phenomenology, the philosopical field of trying to describe experience as simple and direct as possible can be useful in normal conventional life - this is how it is related with in this "character story" anyways..

[Milamoh]

Greetings Elad
I hope all is well with you. Am in a bit of a dark hole – life circumstances a bit turbulent – took me a while to gather the strength to respond – but I remain committed. I had/still have so much resistance – I recognise this feeling that is here , its not even in the form of thoughts or maybe it is – I tried to access and sit with it / or the thoughts – it’s a feeling of wanting nothing – absolutely nothing. Pls don’t worry I am not in danger of myself in anyway
I had tremors again last night … fell asleep in the midst of it I think,

All this can be valuable but can also get you lost in effort to describe subtle experience. The main thing in this exploration is to stay focused on if it really true that a real you doing and controlling things is an illusion.

I had an aha from how you responded here - I saw how the thoughts ("my") have always been the kind that strive to describe experience – through and through and in a sense the statement you made has been helpful because I am finding that I am getting less and less caught in those descriptions because recognition is now more alive

So this languaging of ripples and energy or causes and conditions, can all sometimes be good, but it is not needed. Making it too complicated. All questions I ask here can in essence be answered simple, with one or a few lines. And as long as it doesn't seem simple it is because attention is in thought trying to capture and describe instead of just what is. Try the exercise agan, find out and tell me what is true, try answer sharp, short and clear:

I did the exercise and my experience was a thought arose and there was a sense of watching it, the watching was still

Ok lets simplify: Try right now several times to count down from 3 and on the count of zero either think a positive thought or a negative thought. Look closely where does the decision come from? Is it something you control, or on closer inspection it just happens?

Again only did last night – too much resistance today but the experience was.. I watched what became a thought intention for planning (subtle) then thought was about the plan , I was still, the sense of watching these thoughts was still

an you see even the word ripple is a concept on top. We are not looking to be able to describe how reality works - that is science and philosophy, very useful in normal life, but not what awakening is. Return to ONLY if there is actually any separate self controlling anything or not.

This was clear for me yesterday – I don’t know what I am experiencing today I am even struggling to do the exercises , will try again in the morning - actually I just caught a thought or a thought became a bit clearer , just just now as I am signing off- something like "I dont care" I dont want to do this, why does it matter .... only saw this now ,,,, have been in this "funk" mood since yesterday morning having to go to court...

Please bear with me – I did not want to not show up
Kind and Warm regards
Mila

[Elad]

Dear Milla,


First of all, I understand when life gets intense and a break is needed, so just tell me if that happens. I hope whatever is going on for you will go well.

Greetings Elad
I hope all is well with you. Am in a bit of a dark hole – life circumstances a bit turbulent – took me a while to gather the strength to respond – but I remain committed. I had/still have so much resistance – I recognise this feeling that is here , its not even in the form of thoughts or maybe it is – I tried to access and sit with it / or the thoughts – it’s a feeling of wanting nothing – absolutely nothing. Pls don’t worry I am not in danger of myself in anyway

People sometimes go through nihilistic "weather storms" during this process. What helps is to recognize that any negativity about this or nihilism that comes up is not about direct experience and the insight itself, but rather is based on thoughts and beliefs about it. Just see the process for what it is - and allow weather systems of mood in all colors to move through.

Also, sometimes there is grief in letting go in parts of the fantasy of the separate self. Grief comes and goes. There is nothing wrong with it. Allow it with love.

Just be open and curious what is moving through...

Meet it all with as much love and compassion and curiosity as possible.

I had tremors again last night … fell asleep in the midst of it I think,

Is this resisted or not? Are there thoughts together with the tremors?

I did the exercise and my experience was a thought arose and there was a sense of watching it, the watching was still

Is there an I watching or just wathcing? Is there an I doing the exercise or is it just being done? Is there an I experiencing reading this right now and thinking about it, or it all just is, just happens? You are close - look close and don't fool yourself, be clear about what is actually seen!

Ok lets simplify: Try right now several times to count down from 3 and on the count of zero either think a positive thought or a negative thought. Look closely where does the decision come from? Is it something you control, or on closer inspection it just happens?

Again only did last night – too much resistance today but the experience was.. I watched what became a thought intention for planning (subtle) then thought was about the plan , I was still, the sense of watching these thoughts was still

Right so planning thought just happening without self right?

And the sense of watching - does that refer to some real thing you can locate? Where? Does it have a form? I am not asking you to imagine or try to be profound. Just look what is actually there and what is added with belief/mental activity.

an you see even the word ripple is a concept on top. We are not looking to be able to describe how reality works - that is science and philosophy, very useful in normal life, but not what awakening is. Return to ONLY if there is actually any separate self controlling anything or not.

This was clear for me yesterday – I don’t know what I am experiencing today I am even struggling to do the exercises , will try again in the morning - actually I just caught a thought or a thought became a bit clearer , just just now as I am signing off- something like "I dont care" I dont want to do this, why does it matter .... only saw this now ,,,, have been in this "funk" mood since yesterday morning having to go to court...

That is a good catch!

This "I dont care, I dont want to do this" what is it protecting? Is there anything real that needs this protection?

And what is this referring to, what is behind all this thinking and emoting activity? A self or just activity?

Please bear with me – I did not want to not show up

Thanks for telling me what is going on. We are good.


Here is a little exercise for you also, if you feel like it:


“I” labelling

Get a sheet of paper and draw a line that divides that sheet in half. Label one half 'self' and
the other side 'other'. Sit down and start a timer for 5 minutes. Every time you have a
thought make a mark on the sheet. If that thought is about the self put a mark on the self
side, if it’s about something else, mark the other side. If a thought about food occurs due to
feeling hungry, mark that on the self side. Any thought that refers back to a self should go
on the self side. (I'm bored, I'm tired, is the door locked (my safety) that video was funny (I
was amused), my back hurts, I am frightened) get it?

Let me know how you go and what you notice.

[Milamoh]

Warm Greetings Elad

First of all, I understand when life gets intense and a break is needed, so just tell me if that happens. I hope whatever is going on for you will go well

.

Thank you so much Elad. I know this is a bit of a story and you didn’t ask for it, so I do hope I am not violating your boundaries for sharing…. I really hope I am not. I have 2 sons, had the eldest when I was very young, boundaries have been a big life lesson for me – HUGE and the biggest ones have been through him. How he came, and how I experience him… Took myself for counselling when I was 21 (I think my journey into looking into me started or deepened then) I have been looking since.(2 decades on), court case was me reluctantly allowing and him forcefully pushing me to buy car in my name- beyond my affordability – his business crushed -lost huge money he bumped the car and insurance didn’t pay and now he is unable to pay it … blah blah

People sometimes go through nihilistic "weather storms" during this process. What helps is to recognize that any negativity about this or nihilism that comes up is not about direct experience and the insight itself, but rather is based on thoughts and beliefs about it.Just see the process for what it is - and allow weather systems of mood in all colors to move through.

This is very very very helpful thank you, I tried to access something like this day before attention was just going to the void in my tummy – thank you for this but I see now that there were stories of “why me”

Also, sometimes there is grief in letting go in parts of the fantasy of the separate self. Grief comes and goes. There is nothing wrong with it. Allow it with love.

Just be open and curious what is moving through..

.
Ok this “what is moving through was also there” my conversations with you were also there but I see now that a lot of it was thinking…

I had tremors again last night … fell asleep in the midst of it I think,Is this resisted or not? Are there thoughts together with the tremors?

I will check for thoughts but I remember that there is fear – short answer yes there is resistance and then conscious effort to breathe and let them or let flow, but not the other night – sleep took over, reluctant to say unconsciousness happened, I will check but they are not wild maybe because resistence arises

I did the exercise and my experience was a thought arose and there was a sense of watching it, the watching was still
Is there an I watching or just wathcing? Is there an I doing the exercise or is it just being done? Is there an I experiencing reading this right now and thinking about it, or it all just is, just happens? You are close - look close and don't fool yourself, be clear about what is actually seen!

You know honestly when I read the question am tempted to say it feels like an “I” but in experience there is seeing that it is stillness not a person and it is seen that the body appears in it just like the rest of the images , its like a presence without a story -no am sure, there is no I ... oh gosh I need to sit with this one - when I read the questions there is an I .. its the same feeling of a thought ..when a thought arises ... there experience is not of just happening - not when am reading the question

Ok lets simplify: Try right now several times to count down from 3 and on the count of zero either think a positive thought or a negative thought. Look closely where does the decision come from? Is it something you control, or on closer inspection it just happens?
Again only did last night – too much resistance today but the experience was.. I watched what became a thought intention for planning (subtle) then thought was about the plan , I was still, the sense of watching these thoughts was still

Right so planning thought just happening without self right?

Theres something sticky here , let me narrate exactly whats happening. There is following the instruction its already a movement 3 2 1 (thinking, narrating) then thinking happens looking for what to think… all this is happening based on what was read..
My finding is the self is a thought… the thought that comes from processing the instruction - it is seen that this is after the fact and what was typed was describing what happened

And the sense of watching - does that refer to some real thing you can locate? Where?

Nope, cant locate it, its broad, open , has everything the senses can reach – so to speak

Does it have a form?

No definitely not

I am not asking you to imagine or try to be profound. Just look what is actually there and what is added with belief/mental activity.

So what is found is seeing even if the head has not moved, sees the irritation in the tummy, sees the image made by mind of the tummy as the irritation is being seen and the feeling noticed – oh and is there a subtle thought making the feeling up is it just pressure tension , wondering now if the empty was made uo– oh my Elad, was the mind giving me a thought of empty tummy day before yesterday?

Ok there is seeing now of the first statement you made earlier in this conversation about – went to grab the statement ..“recognize that any negativity about this or nihilism that comes up is not about direct experience and the insight itself, but rather is based on thoughts and beliefs about it” Remember I call it "meaning making" but the seeing that just happened here was more subtle and not seen before... I see it for now – hope to catch more of it

Can you see even the word ripple is a concept on top. We are not looking to be able to describe how reality works - that is science and philosophy, very useful in normal life, but not what awakening is. Return to ONLY if there is actually any separate self controlling anything or not.

There is no separate self – there is this happening now from stillness or presence , this or that

This "I dont care, I dont want to do this" what is it protecting

? The "I" dont care is a thought keeping the "I" in the thought alive .. it seems to be protecting the activity of the "I" ...oh my!

Is there anything real that needs this protection?

No - oh my word... there was noticing of a thought just now " is this for real" can this be what is actually happening ... the thought was seen

And what is this referring to, what is behind all this thinking and emoting activity? A self or just activity?

Just activity BUT there is a question, if this is just activity does it mean there is yet a subtler activity resisting this activity because the experience was felt as dense (this is not me telling a story – am trying to describe what was being experienced and seen?) was the dense more activity ?




Here is a little exercise for you also, if you feel like it:

“I” labelling

Get a sheet of paper and draw a line that divides that sheet in half. Label one half 'self' and
the other side 'other'. Sit down and start a timer for 5 minutes. Every time you have a
thought make a mark on the sheet. If that thought is about the self put a mark on the self
side, if it’s about something else, mark the other side. If a thought about food occurs due to
feeling hungry, mark that on the self side. Any thought that refers back to a self should go
on the self side. (I'm bored, I'm tired, is the door locked (my safety) that video was funny (I
was amused), my back hurts, I am frightened) get it?

Let me know how you go and what you notice.

There was activity for sure, thoughts talking to someone, others talking to themselves eg “I enjoyed this silence” This is peaceful, I wonder what Elad is checking (hahahah) another “whos talking right now” they kind of all had ownership as in were in 1st person. Even the ones placed under "other" seem to be personal eg "what else can be put in pea protein biscuits”

There was also Noticing that there were many quiet gaps too between thoughts and I noticed something wanting to find a place to settle like an agitated sense

There is a sense here that the body is experiencing a lot of heat since some of the ahas.. I am watching that too

Am so grateful, I remain grateful
Mila

[Milamoh]

Warm Greetings Elad

First of all, I understand when life gets intense and a break is needed, so just tell me if that happens. I hope whatever is going on for you will go well

.

Thank you so much Elad. I know this is a bit of a story and you didn’t ask for it, so I do hope I am not violating your boundaries for sharing…. I really hope I am not. I have 2 sons, had the eldest when I was very young, boundaries have been a big life lesson for me – HUGE and the biggest ones have been through him. How he came, and how I experience him… Took myself for counselling when I was 21 (I think my journey into looking into me started or deepened then) I have been looking since.(2 decades on), court case was me reluctantly allowing and him forcefully pushing me to buy car in my name- beyond my affordability – his business crushed -lost huge money he bumped the car and insurance didn’t pay and now he is unable to pay it … blah blah

People sometimes go through nihilistic "weather storms" during this process. What helps is to recognize that any negativity about this or nihilism that comes up is not about direct experience and the insight itself, but rather is based on thoughts and beliefs about it.Just see the process for what it is - and allow weather systems of mood in all colors to move through.

This is very very very helpful thank you, I tried to access something like this day before attention was just going to the void in my tummy – thank you for this but I see now that there were stories of “why me”

Also, sometimes there is grief in letting go in parts of the fantasy of the separate self. Grief comes and goes. There is nothing wrong with it. Allow it with love.

Just be open and curious what is moving through..

.
Ok this “what is moving through was also there” my conversations with you were also there but I see now that a lot of it was thinking…

I had tremors again last night … fell asleep in the midst of it I think,Is this resisted or not? Are there thoughts together with the tremors?

I will check for thoughts but I remember that there is fear – short answer yes there is resistance and then conscious effort to breathe and let them or let flow, but not the other night – sleep took over, reluctant to say unconsciousness happened, I will check but they are not wild maybe because resistence arises

I did the exercise and my experience was a thought arose and there was a sense of watching it, the watching was still
Is there an I watching or just wathcing? Is there an I doing the exercise or is it just being done? Is there an I experiencing reading this right now and thinking about it, or it all just is, just happens? You are close - look close and don't fool yourself, be clear about what is actually seen!

You know honestly when I read the question am tempted to say it feels like an “I” but in experience there is seeing that it is stillness not a person and it is seen that the body appears in it just like the rest of the images , its like a presence without a story -no am sure, there is no I ... oh gosh I need to sit with this one - when I read the questions there is an I .. its the same feeling of a thought ..when a thought arises ... there experience is not of just happening - not when am reading the question

Ok lets simplify: Try right now several times to count down from 3 and on the count of zero either think a positive thought or a negative thought. Look closely where does the decision come from? Is it something you control, or on closer inspection it just happens?
Again only did last night – too much resistance today but the experience was.. I watched what became a thought intention for planning (subtle) then thought was about the plan , I was still, the sense of watching these thoughts was still

Right so planning thought just happening without self right?

Theres something sticky here , let me narrate exactly whats happening. There is following the instruction its already a movement 3 2 1 (thinking, narrating) then thinking happens looking for what to think… all this is happening based on what was read..
My finding is the self is a thought… the thought that comes from processing the instruction - it is seen that this is after the fact and what was typed was describing what happened

And the sense of watching - does that refer to some real thing you can locate? Where?

Nope, cant locate it, its broad, open , has everything the senses can reach – so to speak

Does it have a form?

No definitely not

I am not asking you to imagine or try to be profound. Just look what is actually there and what is added with belief/mental activity.

So what is found is seeing even if the head has not moved, sees the irritation in the tummy, sees the image made by mind of the tummy as the irritation is being seen and the feeling noticed – oh and is there a subtle thought making the feeling up is it just pressure tension , wondering now if the empty was made uo– oh my Elad, was the mind giving me a thought of empty tummy day before yesterday?

Ok there is seeing now of the first statement you made earlier in this conversation about – went to grab the statement ..“recognize that any negativity about this or nihilism that comes up is not about direct experience and the insight itself, but rather is based on thoughts and beliefs about it” Remember I call it "meaning making" but the seeing that just happened here was more subtle and not seen before... I see it for now – hope to catch more of it

Can you see even the word ripple is a concept on top. We are not looking to be able to describe how reality works - that is science and philosophy, very useful in normal life, but not what awakening is. Return to ONLY if there is actually any separate self controlling anything or not.

There is no separate self – there is this happening now from stillness or presence , this or that

This "I dont care, I dont want to do this" what is it protecting

? The "I" dont care is a thought keeping the "I" in the thought alive .. it seems to be protecting the activity of the "I" ...oh my!

Is there anything real that needs this protection?

No - oh my word... there was noticing of a thought just now " is this for real" can this be what is actually happening ... the thought was seen

And what is this referring to, what is behind all this thinking and emoting activity? A self or just activity?

Just activity BUT there is a question, if this is just activity does it mean there is yet a subtler activity resisting this activity because the experience was felt as dense (this is not me telling a story – am trying to describe what was being experienced and seen?) was the dense more activity ?




Here is a little exercise for you also, if you feel like it:

“I” labelling

Get a sheet of paper and draw a line that divides that sheet in half. Label one half 'self' and
the other side 'other'. Sit down and start a timer for 5 minutes. Every time you have a
thought make a mark on the sheet. If that thought is about the self put a mark on the self
side, if it’s about something else, mark the other side. If a thought about food occurs due to
feeling hungry, mark that on the self side. Any thought that refers back to a self should go
on the self side. (I'm bored, I'm tired, is the door locked (my safety) that video was funny (I
was amused), my back hurts, I am frightened) get it?

Let me know how you go and what you notice.

There was activity for sure, thoughts talking to someone, others talking to themselves eg “I enjoyed this silence” This is peaceful, I wonder what Elad is checking (hahahah) another “whos talking right now” they kind of all had ownership as in were in 1st person. Even the ones placed under "other" seem to be personal eg "what else can be put in pea protein biscuits”

There was also Noticing that there were many quiet gaps too between thoughts and I noticed something wanting to find a place to settle like an agitated sense

There is a sense here that the body is experiencing a lot of heat since some of the ahas.. I am watching that too

Am so grateful, I remain grateful
Mila

[Elad]

Dear Mila,

You are very sincere and things are moving well. Just let it continue, which it will, by itself, including the sincerity and earnestness. It is just there when it is there.

Thank you so much Elad. I know this is a bit of a story and you didn’t ask for it, so I do hope I am not violating your boundaries for sharing…. I really hope I am not. I have 2 sons, had the eldest when I was very young, boundaries have been a big life lesson for me – HUGE and the biggest ones have been through him. How he came, and how I experience him… Took myself for counselling when I was 21 (I think my journey into looking into me started or deepened then) I have been looking since.(2 decades on), court case was me reluctantly allowing and him forcefully pushing me to buy car in my name- beyond my affordability – his business crushed -lost huge money he bumped the car and insurance didn’t pay and now he is unable to pay it … blah blah

Wow I am sorry. That sounds really rough. And yes, sounds like you are being challenged to learn about boundaries and facing what is, rather then what we wish would be, even with those we love most.

People sometimes go through nihilistic "weather storms" during this process. What helps is to recognize that any negativity about this or nihilism that comes up is not about direct experience and the insight itself, but rather is based on thoughts and beliefs about it.Just see the process for what it is - and allow weather systems of mood in all colors to move through.

This is very very very helpful thank you, I tried to access something like this day before attention was just going to the void in my tummy – thank you for this but I see now that there were stories of “why me”

Very human :)

Also, sometimes there is grief in letting go in parts of the fantasy of the separate self. Grief comes and goes. There is nothing wrong with it. Allow it with love.

Just be open and curious what is moving through..

.
Ok this “what is moving through was also there” my conversations with you were also there but I see now that a lot of it was thinking…

And thinking is also part of what just "flows through"/ is experienced. We need not make thinking go away. Just see thinking as thinking, rather then being totally lost in content of thinking (and when that happens, that happens, no controller).

I did the exercise and my experience was a thought arose and there was a sense of watching it, the watching was still
Is there an I watching or just wathcing? Is there an I doing the exercise or is it just being done? Is there an I experiencing reading this right now and thinking about it, or it all just is, just happens? You are close - look close and don't fool yourself, be clear about what is actually seen!

You know honestly when I read the question am tempted to say it feels like an “I” but in experience there is seeing that it is stillness not a person and it is seen that the body appears in it just like the rest of the images , its like a presence without a story -no am sure, there is no I ... oh gosh I need to sit with this one - when I read the questions there is an I .. its the same feeling of a thought ..when a thought arises ... there experience is not of just happening - not when am reading the question

Yes so popping in and out of recognition seems to be happening. One moment it is clear there is no self in control, the next it feels like there is. A little like getting caught up in a captivating movie, remembering it is a movie, then getting caught up again. We don't need that to change. Just see also that happens without self. No self choosing it being one way one moment and the other way the other moment. No self failing or succeeding. No self awake, no self asleep. Awakeness happens, asleepness happens. Confusion happens. Recognition happens. Nothing stays.

Can you see this?

Ok lets simplify: Try right now several times to count down from 3 and on the count of zero either think a positive thought or a negative thought. Look closely where does the decision come from? Is it something you control, or on closer inspection it just happens?
Again only did last night – too much resistance today but the experience was.. I watched what became a thought intention for planning (subtle) then thought was about the plan , I was still, the sense of watching these thoughts was still

Right so planning thought just happening without self right?

Theres something sticky here , let me narrate exactly whats happening. There is following the instruction its already a movement 3 2 1 (thinking, narrating) then thinking happens looking for what to think… all this is happening based on what was read..
My finding is the self is a thought… the thought that comes from processing the instruction - it is seen that this is after the fact and what was typed was describing what happened

Even simpler. Just see: if you right now either start planning something or start singing a song, whatever happens just happens, without self. And even if the story of how a self did it comes right after, also that comes without a self choosing it. There is no self inside the illusion of self, no mater who good it is. There is no real people in a movie on the screen, no matter how captivating it is.

And the sense of watching - does that refer to some real thing you can locate? Where?

Nope, cant locate it, its broad, open , has everything the senses can reach – so to speak

Right no separate witness, just experence open without a center and without bounderies.

Does it have a form?

No definitely not

Right on.

I am not asking you to imagine or try to be profound. Just look what is actually there and what is added with belief/mental activity.

So what is found is seeing even if the head has not moved, sees the irritation in the tummy, sees the image made by mind of the tummy as the irritation is being seen and the feeling noticed – oh and is there a subtle thought making the feeling up is it just pressure tension , wondering now if the empty was made uo– oh my Elad, was the mind giving me a thought of empty tummy day before yesterday?

Ok there is seeing now of the first statement you made earlier in this conversation about – went to grab the statement ..“recognize that any negativity about this or nihilism that comes up is not about direct experience and the insight itself, but rather is based on thoughts and beliefs about it” Remember I call it "meaning making" but the seeing that just happened here was more subtle and not seen before... I see it for now – hope to catch more of it

That is great more and more ways are recognized that lostness in thought happens

Can you see even the word ripple is a concept on top. We are not looking to be able to describe how reality works - that is science and philosophy, very useful in normal life, but not what awakening is. Return to ONLY if there is actually any separate self controlling anything or not.

There is no separate self – there is this happening now from stillness or presence , this or that

Yes yes.

This "I dont care, I dont want to do this" what is it protecting

? The "I" dont care is a thought keeping the "I" in the thought alive .. it seems to be protecting the activity of the "I" ...oh my!

Is there anything real that needs this protection?

No - oh my word... there was noticing of a thought just now " is this for real" can this be what is actually happening ... the thought was seen

And what is this referring to, what is behind all this thinking and emoting activity? A self or just activity?

Just activity

Thats it - that's the gateless gate. Let it happen. Really there is no you who can let it happen or not let it happen. What or where would this "I" be to do it or not do it??


Fear happens, excitement happens, recognition happens.

BUT there is a question, if this is just activity does it mean there is yet a subtler activity resisting this activity because the experience was felt as dense (this is not me telling a story – am trying to describe what was being experienced and seen?) was the dense more activity ?

Seems like there is a trying to get this through analysis here. Just let go. Just see it all happen. And really no you to let go. Whatever is really here now, happening now, is there a self separate from it? Where would it be?

“I” labelling

Get a sheet of paper and draw a line that divides that sheet in half. Label one half 'self' and
the other side 'other'. Sit down and start a timer for 5 minutes. Every time you have a
thought make a mark on the sheet. If that thought is about the self put a mark on the self
side, if it’s about something else, mark the other side. If a thought about food occurs due to
feeling hungry, mark that on the self side. Any thought that refers back to a self should go
on the self side. (I'm bored, I'm tired, is the door locked (my safety) that video was funny (I
was amused), my back hurts, I am frightened) get it?

Let me know how you go and what you notice.

There was activity for sure, thoughts talking to someone, others talking to themselves eg “I enjoyed this silence” This is peaceful, I wonder what Elad is checking (hahahah) another “whos talking right now” they kind of all had ownership as in were in 1st person. Even the ones placed under "other" seem to be personal eg "what else can be put in pea protein biscuits”

There was also Noticing that there were many quiet gaps too between thoughts and I noticed something wanting to find a place to settle like an agitated sense

There is a sense here that the body is experiencing a lot of heat since some of the ahas.. I am watching that too

Am so grateful, I remain grateful
Mila

Great - just keep looking and seeing the open free spontaneous nature of everything - including hesitation and contraction.

[Milamoh]

Greetings Elad

Thanks for holding the space. I hope you are well

“Wow I am sorry. That sounds really rough. And yes, sounds like you are being challenged to learn about boundaries and facing what is, rather then what we wish would be, even with those we love most.”

This stayed in my consciousness since I read it – there were thoughts about what boundaries and why boundaries are needed if all is what it is – these thoughts were seen but they went on….

I want to share that there is something with snakes and dreams "here" – they have accompanied "me" in dreams since 2019 and beyond but more so since 2019 and have never beaten "me" but always symbolic, always threatening , sometimes still, sometimes small ones sipping through from inside "me" to the outside – could even relate some of "my" awake life to what happened in dreams, Last night for the first time not only did the snake bite me – right hand , and left a whole on the left hand but when I wiggled it off it enveloped me -swallowed me, but there was someone else looking at all this …
Seems like an obvious one hey

“Yes so popping in and out of recognition seems to be happening. One moment it is clear there is no self in control, the next it feels like there is. A little like getting caught up in a captivating movie, remembering it is a movie, then getting caught up again. We don't need that to change. Just see also that happens without self. No self choosing it being one way one moment and the other way the other moment. No self failing or succeeding. No self awake, no self asleep. Awakeness happens, asleepness happens. Confusion happens. Recognition happens. Nothing stays.Can you see this?

There is seeing that things are coming and going for sure and that seeing keeps seeing this AND it is true that there is also seeing that theres waking up from content of thoughts showing there was being lost in them, more so past three days the thoughts /activity was very thick dense…

Even simpler. Just see: if you right now either start planning something or start singing a song, whatever happens just happens, without self. And even if the story of how a self did it comes right after, also that comes without a self choosing it. There is no self inside the illusion of self, no mater who good it is. There is no real people in a movie on the screen, no matter how captivating it is.

This is true – today I was with my sister and niece I almost laughed so hard as presence came forward because in that moment there was seeing the robotic nature (so to speak) and all of a sudden the background of where we were (my sisters bedroom) looked so inserted and static and them moving and talking seemed like an animation – there was an urge to laugh… but lasted for a short bit , what did seemed lasting and different was the struggle felt to make conversation

And what is this referring to, what is behind all this thinking and emoting activity? A self or just activity?
Just activity

This is what was seen with sister and niece

Thats it - that's the gateless gate. Let it happen. Really there is no you who can let it happen or not let it happen. What or where would this "I" be to do it or not do it??

Just in thoughts hehehe with no power to do, thoughts come and go heheh

BUT there is a question, if this is just activity does it mean there is yet a subtler activity resisting this activity because the experience was felt as dense (this is not me telling a story – am trying to describe what was being experienced and seen?) was the dense more activity ?

Seems like there is a trying to get this through analysis here. Just let go. Just see it all happen. And really no you to let go. Whatever is really here now, happening now, is there a self separate from it? Where would it be?

its all just happening ... no one making it so and there is noticing that the above (there is a question) was just more activity and buying into it. just noticing activity

Great - just keep looking and seeing the open free spontaneous nature of everything - including hesitation and contraction.

Will revisit all exercises and started on gateless gatecrashers book this morning .... ahhh just saw through the thoughts that said "I lost momentum these past few days" but there was a pause and then seeing that all that was thinking what will be will be heheheh

Warm kind regards
Mila

[Elad]

That is great Mila

Actually there is a sense here that the seeing is there, the gateless gate has been crossed, and if there is anything making it unclear, it is only clinging to ideas about how "awakening should feel/be"?

What comes up in response to this?

Try saying out several times:

"The gateless gate is crossed, awakeness is here, there is no I who was aseep and now is awake, and there will never be"

And just see what happens and report.

[Elad]

Oh and regarding "boundaries". Yes it is paradoxical. In one sense nothing is need cause there is no one to need it. You could call that "the absolute level". At the same time at another level, we could call it the conventional level, or the relative/relational level, all normal things continue. You are conventionally Mila, I am conventionally Elad. And If I try to do something you don't feel good with, you might need to express your boundary, your yes and no. And you might be good at this or not, and it might be developed more with time. This is an inbuilt paradox of awakening. Waking up does not equal growing up. Learning skills and maturing continues after awakening. It is just seen/known that ultimately there is no separate self doing any of it. Buddhism is good at describing this interplay of "the absolute level and the relative level". As long as you don't take either level as belief, but rather just see what truly IS, it will be clear that always there was never separate selves controlling things and at the same time all the normal aspects of psychology, growth, learning and so forth are still relevant for normal life.

[Milamoh]

Greetings Elad

Actually there is a sense here that the seeing is there, the gateless gate has been crossed, and if there is anything making it unclear, it is only clinging to ideas about how "awakening should feel/be"?

There is definitely a deepening of seeing and a sense that recognition is happening sooner and sooner, as if thought cant get away without being seen as thought.
To answer the awakening expectations thing : It is true that there was always a fear that awakening will be energetic here since feelings have always been deep – but right here there is seeing that all this is thought and what was – was and what is ,,,is ..including thought … all as it is and no "I" doing it

"

The gateless gate is crossed, awakeness is here, there is no I who was aseep and now is awake, and there will never be"

Short answer : Blank happened. Eventually a thought was seen and it goes like this “I don’t know what to think of this “….
theres wanting to just laugh … "I" have had random seconds of something that feels like joy or an opening or something – visceral experience of joy peeping or relief or something … but seconds here and there. There is also a sense of fear around occuring thoughts about the week ahead and then theres recognition that these are thoughts and they are creating and obscuring what is here now ...(all that was in realtime)

Regarding the absolute and the relative ... I understood and that was helpful thank you... I thought of the well known "chop wood carry water"?

Thank you so much Elad…
Clinging to this experience is being felt – theres a not wanting to let go
Its all seen with compassion
Kind warm warm regards

[Elad]

Hi dear Mila,

Beautiful, quite clear!

Clinging to this experience is being felt – theres a not wanting to let go
Its all seen with compassion

Beautiful noticing and sincerity. What is clinging to what?

Explore in direct experience and let me know.



And here are a couple exercises for you to just "deepen" (deepening, exploration and discovery continue endlessly):


In these exercises you can answer each question separate, or answer them in one general answer of what each exercise clarifies/shows...



Time Exercise

There is a general assumption that there is linear time that started (if started at all)
somewhere very far in the past and advances to the distant future. The present moment
(now) is considered to be a very small fragment of time, or an event that is moving forward
on a linear line, coming from the past and advancing to the future.
But is there an experience of the ’now’ moving along the line of time?
Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?
Is there any actual or direct experience of one event following another?
How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?
Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?
How long does the ‘now’ last?
Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?
When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?
What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?
So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?




Palm Flipping Exercise


1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.
2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.
Watch like a hawk.
Don't go to thoughts – examine your direct experience. Do this as many times as you like,
and each time inquire:-
How is the movement controlled?
Does a thought control it?
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought
MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.
Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or
down?


Nature Exercise

Go out into nature and spend some time watching the movement of the whole. See how
clouds move, trees swing, leaves wiggle, grass moves, insects, birds - all move all the
time.
Then move focus to sensations and see how they too are in constant motion, thoughts
come and go, sounds, colours, sensations come and go.
Notice that everything is part of one movement.
Then close your eyes and see if there is a line between you and out there, between you
and life itself. If yes, where is the boundary?
Is there an inside and an outside of Life?
Is there something which is not included in the movement of the whole?
Is there a witness that is watching life happening from a distance?
Is witnessing part of the one movement too?
Is there anything which is not just happening?
Go out, come back and tell me what you found.