Looking for my true nature

[Anastacia42]

Yes, Davide, good noticing.

When the me is involved in thoughts these sensations are very common.

That's because any "I" or "me" is a lie.

"I" is simply the body Sensation of lying plus an untrue thought or label, "me," or "I."

Stay aware if how it FEELS to see what these exercises point to.

Here's your next pointer. I realize you "know" this, but do it anyway please, with body awareness.


Label-Reality Correlation

There is a belief that labels have a one-to-one correspondence with something called "reality." But there isn’t. Just like it is a generally accepted belief that labels like "good" and "bad" are inherent characteristics of "things." But actually, they are not.

When you look at the word label ‘GREEN’, what is the actual experience?

Is the red color "experienced" or is color green "experienced" as the label suggests?

Do the labels have a one-to-one correspondence with "reality?"

Or do the labels suggest something else other than what is here now (red color)?

Is green-ness an inherent attribute of the "experience" of the red color; or is green just a word label on the experience of the red color?

If the label ‘GREEN’ is replaced with the label ‘GOOD’ or ‘BAD’, is the redness affected in any way as the labels suggests?

Does redness become "good" or "bad," or do the labels have no effect whatsoever on ‘reality’?

Loving,

[NappingCat]

Hello Stacy! Hope everything is ok and you're doing fine.

These days I'm trying to feel as much as possible and to stay with every every sensation that appear. The distinction between "direct" stuff (colors, forms, sounds, smells, pressure etc.) and thoughts is quite clear. When feelings appear they are seen as bodily sensations + some thoughts labeling.

Doubts appear as thoughts and feel so "sticky" because they are part of the big story of Davide, so they look more "coherent" with the whole picture. Looks like the more a me-thought is coherent and integrated with other thoughts regarding the Davide story, the more it pulls you into the story and it's seen as believeble and "true". If many thoughts reflect each other like mirrors, they all sustain each other and have more power to capture attention.

The mind feels confused about many things and it's still trying to understand everything. Poor mind :-)

Have a nice day, hope to hear from you soon!

Love,

Davide

[NappingCat]

Sorry Stacy, I only now realized you already replied me, I just didn't see it because it was on page 2. I will do the exercise and report back.

Love,

Davide

[Anastacia42]

Good. we're moving Friday, but I seem to be keep up.

Loving

[NappingCat]

When you look at the word label ‘GREEN’, what is the actual experience?

"GREEN" is just a word, I can hear a voice that says green and maybe an image appears of a splash of green, but it's not like the experience of green.

Is the red color "experienced" or is color green "experienced" as the label suggests?

What is experienced is just this and it's very immediate. "Red" and "green" are just labels that arrive later and only exist in toughts. Even the word "color" is a label, altough less specific. It's just what seems to be different qualities of what appears. Thoughts come later and say things like "there's color here" and "this is green".

Do the labels have a one-to-one correspondence with "reality?"

No. Labels just try to pinpoint reality but they fail. There is an infinite series of reds and greens and all these colors fall under some simple and catch-all word. Words are an approximation of reality at best.

Or do the labels suggest something else other than what is here now (red color)?

Labels point at concepts. The label "green" points at the "concept of green" more than at the actual experience of green. The label "green" also suggests that there is "not green" and the two don't overlap.

Is green-ness an inherent attribute of the "experience" of the red color; or is green just a word label on the experience of the red color?

"Green" is just an arbitrary label. The words "green" and "red" could be swapped with no consequences if everybody agreed on doing so.

If the label ‘GREEN’ is replaced with the label ‘GOOD’ or ‘BAD’, is the redness affected in any way as the labels suggests?

No. The labels do not affect in any way the things they try to describe. Reality is already there and the labels only come after. How could they influence or affect what is already there and it's always changing? Labels are always late.

Does redness become "good" or "bad," or do the labels have no effect whatsoever on ‘reality’?

They have no effect whatsoever on what is. "redness" would be the same "redness" independently from the name the mind gives it.

This is what came up. Thank you as always.

Love,

Davide

[Anastacia42]

While your answers are philosophically true,, that's a bit beyond what we're pointing to here. Keep it simple & don't overthink it.

When you look at the word label ‘GREEN’, what is the actual experience?


Red. You see red, not green.

Red is experienced. Simple.

Yes, the labels arrive after the visual of just this.

Okay, onward!

Remember, LOOK & report what you SEE, not what you think.

Actual/Direct Experience - Apple

Have a look at an apple (or any fruit you like.) If you have a ‘real’ apple, you can use it for this exercise. Google for a picture of an apple.



When looking at an apple, there's color; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."

What is known for sure? Color is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought.

Actual experience is sound, thought, color, smell, taste, sensation and the fact of thought arising, but not its content.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.

This is what is meant by "looking in actual experience." What you know for sure, and, is always here.

Taste labeled ‘apple’ is known
Color labeled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labeled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labeled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known

However, is an apple actually known?

Have fun and let me know what you find out.

Loving,

[NappingCat]

Hi Stacy!

While your answers are philosophically true,, that's a bit beyond what we're pointing to here. Keep it simple & don't overthink it.

Roger 🫡

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

They describe a pattern? A pattern made of colors, shapes, sounds, sensations etc. But a pattern is just another thought, so maybe they only describe other thoughts.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

There's color, shape, light and then a thought about an apple.

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

Not really. Only direct things like color, sound, sensation etc can be "found".

However, is an apple actually known?

No. Only the elements the "apple" experience are known. Everything else is just thoughts ABOUT something labeled as "apple". The thoughts just appear and are always about something else. Color, sound, smell etc. are not about something else, they appear and are immediately "known". You're right: the appearing of a thought is immediately known, the content not so much.

Have a nice day!

Love,

Davide

[Anastacia42]

Davide. that's beautiful, one of the best set of answers to this I've ever seen. Good work.

Next up;:

.Palm Flipping Exercise

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.

2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.

Watch like a hawk.

Don't go to thoughts – examine your direct experience.

Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:

How is the movement controlled?

Does a thought control it?

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

How is the decision made to turn the hand over?

Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

Who or what ​ chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

Loving

[Anastacia42]

Davide. that's beautiful, one of the best set of answers to this I've ever seen. Good work.

Next up;:

.Palm Flipping Exercise

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.

2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.

Watch like a hawk.

Don't go to thoughts – examine your direct experience.

Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:

How is the movement controlled?

Does a thought control it?

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

How is the decision made to turn the hand over?

Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

Who or what ​ chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

Loving

[NappingCat]

Hi Stacy!

This exercise was interesting, looks like there are still some beliefs related to thoughts supposedly controlling the body.

How is the movement controlled?

The movement just happens spontaneously, the body knows how to do it.

Does a thought control it?

Not exactly. Sometimes looks like a thought appears and the the hand moves. For example the thought "I will count to three and then move the hand... 1, 2, 3" appears and then the hand actually moves. But that thought just appeared with no one deciding it, it came out of nowhere. So maybe the body sometimes is reacting to thoughts, but it's not like the thoughts are controlling it, it's more like a chain reaction.

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

No, as always there are only sensations like color, sound, sensation etc. and thoughts, but no one controlling them. Everything just appears and disappears.

How is the decision made to turn the hand over?

There is no decision, there's just a thought (sometimes) and then movement happening. Apparently the thought causes a reaction in the body, but the thought is not deciding anything, it's just a thought.

Who or what ​ chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

No one decided. There's conditioning in the body and so the right hand was used without anyone or anything deciding about it.

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

No, movement and thoughts happen and sometimes it look like a thought causes a reaction in the body and the hand moves, but the thought itself just appeared without anyone causing it.

This exercise was fun, thank you!

Love,

Davide

[Anastacia42]

Good. Glad you enjoyed it.

Remember, we're looking for a shift in perception.

The *idea* of "self" is a lie feeling of contraction plus the lie thought of a "self." That's it.

"Enlightenment is an accident. Meditation makes us accident prone."

Sunryu Suzuki

We cannot predict it and we cannot make it happen. We can only practice the conditions in which it is more likely.

This frustrates the mind because it wants everything to be linear and logical and step-by-step, but this is not. It is non linear and unpredictable.

Above all, do not *believe* anything. Just LOOK

You can read Gateless Gatecrashers for examples. Download it from the Books link here.

Much love

[NappingCat]

Hi Stacy!

Yeah, in the story the me wants to awaken. There are thoughts like "I need to awaken to end this suffering" and "I need to understand what needs to be done in order to awaken". It's a story about a character on a path that wants something so badly. In this story there are expectations like "suffering will end" and also "I will know something rare" or "Once I'll attain awakening I'll be special". It's a sad story about this Davide character that must always be different or do something with the promise that he'll be happy if he does what needs to be done. There's some pity and love for this character, he's so restless and desperate, he just wants to find peace.

There's also doubt. Thoughts like "This is not true", "you are deluding yourself", "you're just avoiding reality", "everyone will think you're crazy".

The more things are being examined, the more bodily sensations that get labeled as "anxiety" and "shame" are seen. Maybe they were just there before and there's just less distraction, I don't know.

I've almost finished reading the Liberation Unleashed book, then maybe I'll read the Gateless Gatecrashers one. In the LU book the stories of the different people who saw through this are very moving. I know it's real and it can happen. In the story of Davide it already happened some time ago, but was in part "forgotten".

I'm trying to feel feel feel as much as possible. I'm not sure how to deal with doubts and expectations. I know it's just more thought stuff but it's still believed somewhat and generates contraction.

As always thank you for helping me out, I really appreciate it.

Love,

Davide

[Anastacia42]

Okay. Here are a couple of resources. One for "got it, lost it." And a set of videos on doubt.

Watch these, please:

https://youtu.be/vJQcD588g2w

and

https://youtu.be/PUDzrCLlrj4

Pernille on doubt:

https://youtu.be/a_8N331jpA4?si=wHE8KmhO7n9uwLPp

Let me know what questions you have.

Loving,

[Anastacia42]

Are you ghosting or still there?

Loving,

[NappingCat]

Hi Stacy! Sorry for disappearing, I've been very busy with work lately. You were moving right? Hope everything went well.

I watched all the material you sent me and more. The Pernille & Todd playlist on doubt and the 2nd fetter was very helpful. Doubts are just more thought stuff. As Todd said in another video "A doubt is just the thought that there's a better explanation somewhere for what already is".

A few days after the shift I had I wrote a list of doubts that were still popping up as thoughts. I've read it again this morning and it's clear that a lot of those are just part of the story that's being told. Doubts like "I need to be logical", "Math is real" or "Evolution theory says I'm an individual" are at most "relative truths" that belong to the world created by the story, they can't really talk about what's directly here.

I'm also reading Greg Goode's "The Direct Path" (Ilona recommended it in her book) and doing the practical exercises that point to deconstruct what is believed to be real.

There are still some sticky points, here are two questions that come keep coming up:

- Regarding sounds: why is there the feeling that there is an origin of that sound and that origin is localized somewhere in space? What is that feeling? For example when a sound appears there is also the feeling that it comes from somewhere (from the left/right/up/down, from far away or close), what is that? Is it similar to how space is perceived in vision/images?

- What are past and future? I know that there is only this moment and it's not even a moment, it's just this. I know that past and future appear only in the form of thoughts and images, but did past really happen? Is what these thoughts and images point to real? Feels like there are thoughts like "The past is real and really happened" or "Time exists and it flows in every moment", "Everything exists in time", "This exists in time". Is there something that can be seen about this kind of thoughts?

Love,

Davide