I think I'm ready

[Derek]

emotions especially, I feel I really have no control over where/when they occur.

Yes. Now you've seen that they come and go without the intervention of any kind of self deciding what experience will come next and then "pulling levers" to make it happen. There is no inner controller.

I've also noticed that when the "me" thoughts arise, my focus comes "inward" from the looseness/observant state (towards my eyes), and that often my abdomen will be clenched.

Now that is a good observation! You've started to see the mental movements from which the illusion of a self is created. That pulling of the attention inward into a small area is one of those movements.

Once the irritation occurred, who decided to try and take a deep breath and refocus? Are these just mental patterns?

Well -- are they? Take a look and see! Are these "decisions" really any different from emotions that flow of their own accord? At what point does the "I" label get applied?

[anonymous2012]

So further reflection:
I have caught myself constructing this persona of Thomas at times, thinking of things to say to people, thinking of how I wished things had been differently in the past, etc. When I catch myself, I'm able to stop it in it's tracks, although it of course comes up again later. It seems that when I am in the "construction mode" my awareness is turned completely "inwards" as opposed to the de-focused, broader awareness I can momentarily have during meditation. There is no real awareness of my surroundings, my body, etc it's like an internal movie. Also, I find it very, very hard to turn off my "internal radio", I've got music in my head all the time.
Sitting in meditation last night, I think I started to get a sense of the awareness as sky/thoughts as cloud metaphor, but it was fleeting and difficult to maintain. At times, it felt like my awareness was almost "behind" my eyes/mind.
Still no major breakthrough, but I am not giving up.

[anonymous2012]

Are these "decisions" really any different from emotions that flow of their own accord? At what point does the "I" label get applied?

I will work on this.

[Derek]

Yes, that's it. You've seen that the thought-stream turns out to be on automatic pilot.

But then occasionally it appears as though a self intervenes.

Actually, that movement is also part of the same automatic process!

So look closely at how "selfing" works.

What happens to create the illusion that, at certain moments, a "self" has suddenly appeared on the scene?

[anonymous2012]

What happens to create the illusion that, at certain moments, a "self" has suddenly appeared on the scene?

I'd like to say that I've been working hard at this question, as I have absolutely nothing for an answer, but to be honest I've seemed to allow myself to slip back into old patterns. I am going to meditate and see what I can come up with. Two steps forward, one step back I guess.

[Derek]

It's a matter of direct observation.

What happens in mind and body when an "I" appears on the scene and apparently intervenes in the thought-stream?

You've noticed that the attention is pulled inward. You've noticed that the word "I" appears. So what else is going on? In particular, what causes the apparent self to jump in at that particular point? Do you have any control over the point at which the "I" appears?

[anonymous2012]

It's a matter of direct observation.

What happens in mind and body when an "I" appears on the scene and apparently intervenes in the thought-stream?

You've noticed that the attention is pulled inward. You've noticed that the word "I" appears. So what else is going on? In particular, what causes the apparent self to jump in at that particular point? Do you have any control over the point at which the "I" appears?

This has taken me a bit to observe, but it seems the "I" comes from a number of places.
Fist, simply habit, "I'm" so used to the idea of a self that, without effort, I don't even question it.
Second, memories. The persistence of this habit/pattern of self over time stored in memories is very reinforcing (even if incorrect). Memories themselves even build this sense of self (MY memories of MY life of MY experiences).
Third, the senses. I identify myself as separate from others/everything else as I have no direct experience from them. I can watch someone get hit with a baseball, and on some level empathize and relate to their pain, but there is no direct feeling of their experience, which reinforces our separateness.
I haven't noticed any intention of creating this self, it seems very automatic, and pattern/habit like. How can I change this behavior? How can I quit the habit of self?

[Derek]

These are excellent observations.

Yes, the mind appropriates a memory here, a thought there, and out of such slight evidence it fabricates the illusion of a solid and persistent self.

And you're right about the whole thing being automatic.

Now, there's no need to change anything. The desire to change what is observed is itself a habit. And even out of such a fleeting desire, the mind can easily create the illusion there's a self to claim responsibility for the desiring.

So just watch this process of "selfing" in action.

Do you see any evidence that there is an actual, solid self there?

[anonymous2012]

Do you see any evidence that there is an actual, solid self there?

No. I see this mind creating fantasies, day-dreams. I see this mind being critical of itself, the choices it makes. I still see a sense of self being generated, although at times it is very seriously challenged. I see evidence for a constructed, fluid self I guess. :)

[Derek]

This is unnecessary suffering. Take a look at what the mind critical is of. Something real? Or something fabricated, which doesn't really exist outside of the mind?

[anonymous2012]

This is unnecessary suffering. Take a look at what the mind critical is of. Something real? Or something fabricated, which doesn't really exist outside of the mind?

Something fabricated. Sorry I haven't posted in the last couple of days, I have been observing but don't feel like I've made much progress or had much to post about. :/

[Derek]

The main things to scrutinize are the ideas that there is anywhere to get to, outside of the here and now, and that there is someone to do the progressing. Have a look at these assumptions. See how they work.

Do thoughts ever exist outside the here and now?

Can fabrications ever "make progress"? Where would they go to?

[anonymous2012]

Do thoughts ever exist outside the here and now?

No, that much I am sure of. Memories are constructed in real time, as an active act here in the present moment. The same is true for planning the future, it is constructed here in the present. I would say both are like fantasies, or daydreams.

Can fabrications ever "make progress"? Where would they go to?

I see what you are getting at here, but is there no progress to be made? Is living no-self not a pattern, or habit? Or I guess I should ask, isn't living no-self the cessation of the current pattern of creating self?
When someone learns a new skill, like programming or guitar, what "gets better at it"? Muscle memory? Patterns in the mind?

[Derek]

It's true that awakening is followed by the cessation of the pattern of creating self. Little "puffs" of selfing do sometimes happen after awakening, but they usually evaporate pretty quickly.

However, awakening doesn't come about by learning a new skill or anything like that. It comes about when the illusion of self is seen through. Things just unravel automatically after that.

So study how this illusion gets created. You said that sometimes you can catch the process of creating "Thomas" in action. Tell me how that works. What creates the impression of "me-ness"?

[anonymous2012]

What creates the impression of "me-ness"?

In part, the things listed before, the physical sensations of the five senses, habit, memory. To this list I would also add assumptions, expectations and desire. I noticed while driving to work this morning (I know you said to focus on the road while driving, but for some reason it seems to be a productive time to be mindful for me) that I was angry when traffic was slow. When I asked where this anger came from, I found that I was angry because this traffic was affecting me. I noticed that the anger came from the idea of me, and the idea of me seemed to come from habit, my expectations on how others should drive, my desire for them to drive the way I want them to, as well as seeing other beings the way I am currently seeing myself. That is to say, as "selves" or separate "egos". I wasn't even running late to work, it's just habit for me to have expectations of how other people "should" drive, and when they don't meet my expectations I somehow feel cheated or wronged, causing anger. I don't want these assumptions. I don't want this anger.
How can I see through this "me/other" view? It feels so deeply ingrained.