LightSeeker

[LightSeeker]

What will be different

?
Real life experience, life movement would be much lighter, a free mind, minimal or maybe no concerns and worries , a life that is joyful and with sense of freedom

[Anastacia42]

Do not quote your own answer. Only quote the question, please. Then type your answe underneath.

Like this:

How will you change?

I had a tough 25 years of depression , for last 6 month with Buddhist studying and Buddhist style meditation which actually was involved a lot with self existence enquiry, insight meditations on effect of self grasping on mental afflictions and emptiness of thoughts and mind…an impossible thing according to all my doctors happened and I have been on remission. But these enquiries brings more questions and deeper concerns , there is no depression but you clearly know that still you get affected by thoughts and feelings and having bad days and every now and then will see the prove that you are not still grounded and awakened, still confused , seeking the reality of life, this itself can be frustrating and take lot of time to study, speculate, meditate …etc( but honestly now I crave for meditation and joyfully do it in any opportunity , but still is very visible the soul, the heart , is not calm, not settled), if I practically see the unseen, experience the fact that there is no “me” , drop the “ I “ and set the consciousness free, I will settle down and these residues that still affecting me will go away. A free living, conscious being.


I'll read them in a little while.

Dint redo these. I can read them.

Did you watch the video?

Loving

[LightSeeker]

What will be different

?
Real life experience, life movement would be much lighter, a free mind, minimal or maybe no concerns and worries , a life that is joyful and with sense of freedom

[LightSeeker]

What is missing?

Training, learning a practical tool to take the intellectual acceptance of the fact that there is no self to an experience, to be able to prove it, see it, observe it! To be able to maintain it on day to day life experiences and encounters.

[LightSeeker]

Did you watch the video?

Yes, I did, sorry about multiple posting, I am doing this on my IPhone as I don’t have a PC and it is a bit confusing .

[Anastacia42]

Hi,

It looks like it was me that got lost this time.

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed.


Loving,

[LightSeeker]

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed.

Hi Stacy,
I have recently been reading Gateless Gare Crashers book , this question has been raised and discussed between many guides and seekers in the book and I have put a lot of energy and concentration to analyze and understand this statement.
At the intellectual level, I must admit I am almost fully convinced and comfortable with the fact that there has never been a separate self, The self as a thought and label that has been made up and dictated to us from the age of 2-3 onwards and as we grow older and get more conditioned by “self Vs others” and perceive everything in relation to this self and all our thoughts are around and in relation to this self, this self that is not existing and there is no where you can find it and define it. The self that is just an empty thought like other thoughts and nothing more….
So, Here there is no doubt from intellectual level of understanding, but when it comes to day to day life this self that has been related and reinforced a lot and it is like it has been tattooed on the mind and subconscious, this self that has being used in all communications and thinking process , seems to be impossible to be denied and easily being ignored !
No matter how clearly I see that it is not existing , it still comes up and shows up , and all the anxiety, anger, greed, jealousy and self cherishing negative thoughts comes after it…. it needs 24 hours seven conscious attention to notice it and remind myself that it is not real and not letting this illusion arises and tricks my mind! But how one can do that? How can we feel the sweet freedom of realizing the non existence of self and experience it in day to day cognitive functions? To me seems very hard just by understanding it in theory we would be able to feel the freedom that is supposed to follow after knowing there is no self .

[Anastacia42]

Good morn8ng (here)

have put a lot of energy and concentration to analyze and understand this statement.

Please don't. All the thinking in the world will not show you the truth. Only looking will. The pointers I'm giving you will do this.

The *idea* of "self" is a lie feeling of contraction plus the lie thought of a "self." That's it.

"Enlightenment is an accident. Meditation makes us accident prone."

Sunryu Suzuki

We cannot predict it and we cannot make it happen. We can only practice the conditions in which it is more likely.

This frustrates the mind because it wants everything to be linear and logical and step-by-step, but this is not. It is non linear and unpredictable.

We are looking for a shift in perception.

https://youtu.be/wyNwhK2Ur1c?si=TZwuFEst-7Hsadpu



This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

What would you like me to call you?



Loving,

[LightSeeker]

What would you like me to call you?

You can call me Hootan
I am very clear with your explanation and can confirm by looking, seeing , and using any of five senses there is no self to find or look at! However, this self , this illusion that has been going on from early stages of childhood and causing all the mental miseries and being root of other illusions and misunderstandings… keep causing issues, how pragmatically you would make sure this ilussional self is not confusing your day to day mental process ? When you understand and you see and look and experience that there is no Hootan! There is nothing as the doer and owner of life actions apart from a still and real consciousness in the core, you should see break through, this does not happen to me the way it has happened to many others and gave them sense of relief

[Anastacia42]

It can & probably will.

Stop writing as though it's real. That doesn't help. Don't tell me you can't see it, yet. You'll tell me when it happene.

Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,

[LightSeeker]

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please.

Hi Stacy,
Sorry for my long delay, I live in Melbourne/Australia and since we had our last correspondence there has been a brutal blood shed in my mother country ( Iran) while there was no internet and phone ( disconnected by government) to know about my parents and people, been quite distressed and not in mood….so, please accept my apology for the long delay.
Yesterday practice based on your question is followed:
Waking up in the morning, sunlight is present , room is bright simply /seeing
I am taking shower/ simply thought
Feeling water on my skin, simply / sense perception
I am drinking my coffee, simply / thought
Coffee tastes bitter , simply / taste sense
Coffee is black, simply/seeing
I am driving to warm, simply/thought
Trees and plants are green , simply/ seeing
Birds chirping , simply/ hearing
Noise of cars in the street, simply/hearing
I am working , simply/thought
I am talking to my clients,simply/ thought
Eating lunch, simply tasting
Checking my emails, simply/thought
Looking at screen, simply seeing
Driving back home, simply/ thought

[Anastacia42]

I did not hear about that. I will look. Sorry to hear.

Yes, of course that's an understandable delay.

Your answers are good. The exercises meant to show you the difference between direct experience and all of the thinking we add to it.

Here is the next step.

Mind Labeling Experience

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

Sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Loving

[LightSeeker]

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Did 2 ten minutes labelling exercises today,
1. Certainly not using the I feels better and truer
2. Pure experience, pure observation without modification.
3. Labels are just describing, no matter what label we use experience is happening in real time with or without them.
4. Even though today I was already relaxed and hard to feel differences, but I should admit when writing down my experiences without using I , it feels calming, more natural.

Regards,
Hootan

[Anastacia42]

All true.

Please answer one question at a time in one post.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

Loving,

[Anastacia42]

The site had been down

Do you understand about quoting? If so, let's move on.

Here is how to distinguish truth from lies.


We often lie every day & don't realize it.

For example, the grocery clerk asks, "How are you?" You reply, "I'm fine." While, yes. there is a sense in which we are always fine, even in the middle of suffering, at that moment, you were grieving the death of your dog, you had a slight sore throat & you had a headache, but you didn't feel like sharing all of that with the grocery clerk, so you lied, "I'm fine."

Also, it matters none at all how "distant" the remembered lie is. Besides the fact that time itself is fictional, a kind if lie, as we recall the lie it becomes present in this moment, as if it were happening now. This brings the body Sensation that accompanies lying.

Lies can be intentional or unintentional, conscious or unconscious, even so automatic that we ourselves are fooled.

The story of a separate "self" is a lie.

This is the lie you came here to see through. Therefore, it is helpful to notice the body Sensation of lying as one of the tools for finding the truth of no self.

You want to be in touch with body Sensations & able to clearly express them in words. This will help.

Lies are usually felt in the heart or solar plexus as a contraction that we may label as tight, heavy or tense.

In contrast, truth is usually expansive. We may call it loose, light or relaxed.

First, can you remember a time when you lied to someone you loved?

Here we count anything, lies we think of as "big" or "small" that "matter" or don't "matter."

How are you? I'm fine. No, your knee hurts, but you don't feel like discussing it with the grocery clerk.

It's a lie. A seemingly "bigger" one will work better for this exercise.

Find the lie. I don't need the whole story, just a few key words to refer to it.

Then scan your body for any Sensation (DE or Direct Experience), particularly in the gut or maybe the heart. Check very closely.

What is found?

If you think the memory you used wasn't clear enough, find another one or lie to yourself right now, make something up.

1 + 1 = 14 is a lie.

I love eating worms is (probably) a lie.

Or call up a video of a lying politician & notice what Sensations arise as you listen.

I will give you a clue: it is not that peaceful Sensation you felt before when you omitted "I." (refers to an exercise I gave before this one)

Please report back with what body Sensations (not interpretations) you feel. Bodies can feel hot or cold, heavy or light, contraction or expansion, etc.

"Peaceful" is an interpretation of a body Sensation, not the Sensation itself, for example.

Do you see that?

Loving,