The Gate

Hi,

Others guides are asking to see a little more. please.

Can you please answer this pointer?

Actual/Direct Experience - Apple

Have a look at an apple (or any fruit you like.) If you have a ‘real’ apple, you can use it for this exercise. Google for a picture of an apple.



When looking at an apple, there's color; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."

What is known for sure? Color is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought.

Actual experience is sound, thought, color, smell, taste, sensation and the fact of thought arising, but not its content.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.

This is what is meant by "looking in actual experience." What you know for sure, and, is always here.

Taste labeled ‘apple’ is known
Color labeled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labeled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labeled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known

However, is an apple actually known?

Have fun and let me know what you find out.

Loving

I’m a bit confused by the exercise. It seemed like you asked questions and answered? Perhaps it wasn’t a thread for me?

Yes. It's for you. Please answer the questions in blue one at a time. using the Quote feature

Here’s my attempt though:

When looking at an apple, there's color; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."

What is known for sure?

I’m looking at an apple. Holding it. I don’t really know how to answer. There are thoughts. There’s a sense that I’m holding the Apple. There’s sensation in my hand that’s cool and waxy. There’s redness and a bruise.

That’s me talking from thought and memory as I’ve put the apple down to type the answer. So nothing is known but I recall the apple in thought and describe it from memory.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

The content of the thoughts is more about this exercise. I can hold the apple and sense confusion about what I’m supposed to be doing. So the content is not really about the Apple.


Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

Good question. I recognise Apple. I suppose no… Apple can’t. As in Apple.

But there is recognition and relating to an Apple. Which I don’t know if it’s thoughts. The recognition feels like it’s just there, the relating feels like something else.

Taste labeled ‘apple’ is known
Color labeled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labeled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labeled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known

However, is an apple actually known?

It seems like it’s known in that I recognise it to be an apple. It seems different from thoughts because thoughts arose that were separated from ‘Apple’ thoughts.. so it seems to me that Apple is known by me.

It seems like there is a me, and an Apple… I wouldn’t say memory. It feels too immediate and innate to be memory. It’s not like I’ve had a flashback of an apple and I’m like aha, this is Apple… but it seems like it’s just Apple.

When I sit and look at it, I can get really fascinated and intrigued. There is a gap which I sit in. But it doesn’t really take away from the belief that it’s an apple.


Hope I did this alright

Hi,

That's not quite it. Let's back up some.

First, this:

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.



https://youtu.be/uAXtO5dMqEI

Loving,

But if you ask me what socks I’m wearing, and I look, I then have to answer from thought, right? Everything after the fact is then a memory.

Maybe I’m being too pedantic. I just found it a bit hard looking at the Apple, and then writing about my experience as if it was direct because then I was recalling.

And naturally that’s easy. It’s not like it’s hard to recall… it’s just that in recalling everything is thought as much as the thought about recalling or the experience. So wasn’t sure how to discern.

But I can easily label things as colour, smell, size, weight, texture etc. I can differentiate between sensations… probably emotions now, and thoughts.

I’m not entirely sure what I’m being asked of.

There is no spoon?

Good morning,

Maybe I’m being too pedantic.

Yes & you're thinking not looking.

https://youtu.be/wyNwhK2Ur1c?si=TZwuFEst-7Hsadpu

There is no spoon?

There is not. Is a made up label. Can you see that?

Loving

Hey,

In regards to the video I'm very motivated and have a lot of desire.

In terms of

There is no spoon?
There is not. Is a made up label. Can you see that?

Kind of. I can touch and see the apple, and I know that the label is a creation of the mind. But it feels very natural to assign the label. I can't not recognise it, but that's not part of my sense field if that's what you mean?

It is not Direct Experience. It's an overlay we made up. Imaginary.

it feels very natural to assign the label

I think you mean "habitual."

It had to be learned. It is not an inherent part of the experience.

Loving,

Hi Anastacia

Yes, that's right. Not natural, that's not the right word. Habitual... but that's not right either. Feels like it's unconscious and before thought. Something is labelling beyond any influence I have.

That's what it seems like.

Try this:

Cup Exercise

Here is an exercise which points out the difference between direct experience and content of thought.

There are two types of thoughts:

(1) Thoughts with words “Here is cup”

(2) Visual mental images of a ‘cup’

So I invite you to do this exercise:

Think of a cup. Get a very clear picture in your mind.

See clearly the size, shape, color and volume of the cup.

Notice whether it is decorated or plain. Notice whether it has a handle. Notice whether it is heavy or fragile. Do you have a clear picture in mind?

Now, can you physically grasp that image of a cup?

Can you pour tea into it?

Can you drink from it?

Is there a ‘real’ cup or just an image of a cup?

Is there an appearing mental image?

Is the content of the mental image (the cup) ‘real’?

The thoughts and mental images are real only as arising thoughts and mental images, their ‘presence’ cannot be denied. However their contents, what are they about are not "real;" they are just fantasies.

Can you see this?

Loving,

heavy or fragile. Do you have a clear picture in mind?

Yes

Now, can you physically grasp that image of a cup?

No.

Can you drink from it?

No.

Is there a ‘real’ cup or just an image of a cup

Just an image of a cup.

Is there an appearing mental image?

Yes.

is the content of the mental image (the cup) ‘real’?

It’s not physical. It’s mental. So it’s real in so much as it’s a thought and exists there, but no. Not in the ‘real’ world.

Can you see this?

Yes


🙏

In the same way, there is no spoon.

Can you see that now?

Loving,

Oh! Yes haha

Excellent.

Now try this.

Palm Flipping Exercise

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.

2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.

Watch like a hawk.

Don't go to thoughts – examine your direct experience.

Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:

How is the movement controlled?

Does a thought control it?

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

How is the decision made to turn the hand over?

Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

Who or what ​ chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

Loving,