Looking for Guide - To Know the Truth, Help Challenge/See

[BLovingJoy]

Can you please do that?

Yes. For sure. Related to this, negative thoughts show up, saying I'm not smart enough/good enough to understand the process. Frustration showed up with not being good enough. These thoughts appeared several times. But each time, I just let them drift away. But funny how they keep coming up, over and over.

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed.

Nothing shows up. No thoughts show up. Just silence.

[Anastacia42]

"You" are good enough. But nothing outside of you can convince you of that.

Nothing is fine. That question checks for fear.


This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.



Loving,

[BLovingJoy]

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

Yes, I am clear about this.

[Anastacia42]

Great. Show your understanding here:

Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,

[BLovingJoy]

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please.

Feeling something, simply = sensation
Hearig ringing, simply = sound
Thought about this exercise, simple = thought
Hearig ringing, simply = sound
Hearing sound of vacuum, simply = sound
Thought about a meeting, simply = thought
Tasting sweetness, simply = tasting
Feeling coldness of a glass. simply = sensation
Thought about a meeting, simply = thought
Hearing ringing, simply = sound
Feeling something, simply = sensation
Feeling something, simply = sensation
Hearing ringing, simply = sound
Hearing typing, simply = sound
Seeing white light, simply = seeing/color
Feeling sensations, simply = sensation
Seeing orange color, simply = seeing/color
Hearing ringing, simply = sound
Hearing typing, simply = sound
Hearing clicking sounds, simply = sound
Tasting sweetness, simply = tasting
Hearing fan sounds, simply = hearing
Smelling coffee, simply = tasting
Feeling cold, simply = sensation
Hearing sound, simply = sound
Seeing blue, simply = seeing/color
Hearing ringing, simply = sound
Feeling vibrations, simply = sensation
Seeing white, simply = seeing/color
Sound of door slamming, simply = hearing

Question, how do I describe sensations? So if I am feeling a certain type of sensation, how would I describe that?

Such as:

Feeling large round sensation, simply = sensation
Feeling heavy/hard sensation, simply = sensation
(or do I just say)
Feeling sensations, simply = sensation

I definitely notice all sorts of sensations in the body, but I don't understand how to describe them in real world experience without adding attributes. Can I describe how they are showing up? hard, texture, soft, round, square?

Thanks Stacy!

[Anastacia42]

Good work.

hard, texture, soft, round, square?

We describe Sensations as things bodies can feel. So, bodies can't feel "round" or "square.." It requires thought to make up those interpretations or labels. But "hard, texture & soft" work. So would temperature.

Mahe sense?

Okay, now this one:



Mind Labeling Experience

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

Sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Loving, ,

[BLovingJoy]

Make sense?

Yes. I practiced a little bit more.

1st 10 Minutes - For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

I have a headache.
I hear ringing.
I hear a fan sound.
I am thinking if I am doing this exercise right or wrong.
I am excited about dropping my ego.
I always end sentences with periods.
I am laughing.
I am smiling.
I have 8 minutes left.
I had to look at the instructions again.
I see a magazine.
I see a folder.
I see a light.
I hear ringing in my ears.
I am typing.
I am a good typer.
I have 7 minutes left.
I hear ringing.
I have an itch on my eyebrow.
I have worry.
I hear my head ringing.
I am enjoying this exercise.
I see 6 minutes left.
I am having ear ringing.
I am standing while typing.
I appreciate Stacy helping me.
I have a headache.
I want some coffee.
I drink some coffee.
I hear my coffee cup clink.
I hear a fan sound.
I don't know what to say.
I want this exercise to be done.
I have 5 minutes left.
I hear ear ringing.
I am curious what the other part of this exercise is like.
I am planning.
I see a coffee cup.
I love studying spirituality and meditation.
I see a book about burnout.
I see a computer.
I hear a fan sound.
I see a magazine.
I am laughing and smiling.
I see a magazine about conservation / nature.
I have a headache.
I am typing.
I have a headache.
I hear a fan sound.
I breathed in and out deeply.
I rinse my mouth with water.
I wonder if I'm doing this exercise correctly.
I hear ringing.
I hear a fan sound.
I hear the furnace running.
I have a headache.
I am stretching and rolling my eyes to not have a migraine.
I shrug my shoulders.
I notice my shoulders are tight.
I worry about if I did this right.
I worry if I said something that will offend.
I hear ringing.
I see words.
I see orange.
I need to check the timer.
I have 40 seconds left.
I retyped something.
I see a kleenex.
I typed kleenex.
I worry I spellled kleenex wrong.
I heard the timer go off.
I am happy this exercise is over.

2nd 10 Minutes - Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

Hearing sounds
Thinking Thoughts
Feeling sensations
Thinking Thoughts
Hearing sounds
Feeling sensations
Thinking thoughts
Typing
Hearing sounds
Hearing ringing
Hearing sounds
Hearing sounds
Hearing sounds
Thinking thoughts
Hearing sounds
Seeing orange
Seeing white
Seeing red angles
Hearing sounds
Hearing sounds
Hearing typing
Seeing white bright
Feelig sensations
Hearing sounds
Hearing spacious sounds
Feeling spacious sensations
Thinking thoughts
Hearing sounds
Seeing gray shape contoured
Seeing white and black
Hearing sound
Hearing sound
Thinking thoughts
Hearing spacious sounds
Feeling spacious sensations
Hearing ringing
Hearing/Feeling vibrations
Thinking thoughts
Feeling vibrations/energetic feelings
Seeing orange
Seeing white
Hearing sound
Hearing sound
Hearing vibrational sound
Feeling itching sensation
Feeling itching sensation
Hearing sound
Seeing black, contoured orange
Hearing sound
Hearing typing
Thinking thoughts
Feeling itching
Hearing ringing
Feeling vibrations
Thinking thoughts
Hearing sounds
Thinking thoughts
Feeling itching
Hearing sounds
Seeing movement
Hearing sounds
Hearing ringing
Thinking thoughts
Hearing sounds
Seeing orange and black contoured
Seeing black shape
Feeling sensations

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

The 2nd exercise is truer, and is the real/direct experience without the labeling. The 1st exercise is the mind perceiving/labeling/intepreting experiences. I found the 2nd exercise harder to describe what was showing up, since I couldn't use labels, and I didn't want to engage the mind to find how to describe it.

2. What is here without labels?

Content just appears. Things just show up and don't need to be labeled.

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

Labels just describe experience.

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

1st Exercise
I found the 1st 10 minutes very entertaining, laugher but also boredom arose. It felt like Exercise 1 was very long and took a while. I was wanting it to be over.

2nd Exercise
The 2nd exercise was just fine and easier to get through. Having studying meditation before, I noticed some meditative states appears (vibrational/expansive/peace) energy started showing up. I found myself I just wanted to drop the exercise and just sync into the (vibrational/expansive) meditative state. I just said 'Hearing spacious sounds', 'Feeling vibrations', 'Feeling spacious', to indicate what was showing up.
I found myself just wanting to stop the exercise, and just meditate/sync in.

The 2nd exercise trigged the sensations that I would sometimes get doing meditation/syncing in/body scans.

I found the 2nd exercise better than the 1st exercise.

[Anastacia42]

Excellent. That's exactly right. These are about the experience rather than right answers.

"Enlightenment is an accident. Meditation makes us accident prone."

Sunryu Suzuki

We cannot predict it and we cannot make it happen. We can only practice the conditions in which it is more likely.

Actual/Direct Experience - Apple

Have a look at an apple (or any fruit you like.) If you have a ‘real’ apple, you can use it for this exercise. Google for a picture of an apple.



When looking at an apple, there's color; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."

What is known for sure? Color is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought.

Actual experience is sound, thought, color, smell, taste, sensation and the fact of thought arising, but not its content.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.

This is what is meant by "looking in actual experience." What you know for sure, and, is always here.

Taste labeled ‘apple’ is known
Color labeled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labeled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labeled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known

However, is an apple actually known?

Have fun and let me know what you find out.

Loving,

[BLovingJoy]

Stacy, first off, thanks for all the help. You are motivating me and making me take this more serious and intentional. Thanks for your volunteering.

Before I answer your questions above, I have some questions for you:

#1 - I think I need to practice this more. Should I be able to describe direct/actual experience easily? I have a hard time describing it becuase my mind wants to get involved and label everything? Is this a red flag that I'm not understanding direct/actual experience? Should it come easy?

#2 - Is the goal to be able to describe direct/actual experience at any time? How often should I noticed / look around with direct/actual experience and not engage the mind? Is it all the time, or only at certain times?

#3 - Should I be practicing this until it comes easily?

#4 - How does direct/actual experience differ from mindfulness, being in the watcher mode, or being in awareness/expansiveness?

I'm just trying to understand if I have actually got this direct/actual experience concept, or if I am just getting it intellectually. Make sense?

Feel free to say don't worry about any of these questions, if they are not relevant right now. Its just my mind wanting to get involved in the process.

Much love!!!!

[Anastacia42]

You're quite welcome. I call it creating world peace one mind at a time.

It is not a goal to practice 24/7. That's stressful. You must be relaxed. The shift in perception that we are looking for is likely to happen when you're not practicing but when you're relaxed and doing something else. Still practice is helpful to create those circumstances.

Maybe this article will be helpful.

https://www.liberationunleashed.com/res ... wakening/

Loving,

[BLovingJoy]

Actual/Direct Experience - Apple

When looking at an apple, there's color; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."
What is known for sure? Color is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

Thoughts showing up are real and known. However, the content of thoughts are not. The content of thoughts are make believe, uncontrollable, random, labeling, ranting, or nonsense. The content of thoughts cannot be reliably/known, because they disappear immediately, and you can't use any senses to investigate them, whereas everything in direct experience ca be reliable/known/noticed. You can investigate every aspect of an apply in direct experience, but content of thoughts, you can't investigate them at all because the moment the appear, they disappaer, and then all you have is memory, which is just another thought.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

There is no apple here. Only color and a thought about 'apple'.

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

No. In direct experience, there is only a seeing a color, seeing a contour, sense smelling, sense tasting, and thoughts that show up (with content about what you know about apples, memories of applies, etc.)

However, is an apple actually known?

No. An apple cannot be known in direct experience, because it is a language label that our conditioned minds apply the unique combination of sight, smell, feeling, and taste.

Have fun and let me know what you find out.

The statement 'Reliably Known' and 'Reliably Investigate' showed up. Essentially things in direct experience, can only be reliably known if you use the senses (sight, smelling, hearing, tasting, feeling) to investigate.

[Anastacia42]

Perfect. Yes.

Now look at "self."

Can you find any "self" with your 5 senses? Anything in DE? Or, like apple, only a thought, a label?



There's a pointer to clarify this, but I think you'll see the correlation

Much love,

[BLovingJoy]

Can you find any "self" with your 5 senses? Anything in DE? Or, like apple, only a thought, a label?

No, the self can not be found using your 5 senses. When you invesitgate using direct experience, it can not be found.

Seeing/Visual
The "self" cannot be found in seeing/colors/images. You can't see your "self" in direct experience. Color/images just show up.

Hearing
The "self" cannot be found in hearing. You can't hear your "self" in direct experience. Sounds just show up.

Taste
The "self" cannot be found in direct experience using taste.

Smell
The "self" cannot be found in direct experience using smell.

Sensations
The "self" cannot be found in direct experience using sensations. You can't find the "self" in sensations. You may experience sensations that the mind labels as self, but then you are aware of these sensations and the mind saying that, so you are not sensations.

[Anastacia42]

Good.

How does it FEEL to see this?

Palm Flipping Exercise

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.

2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.

Watch like a hawk.

Don't go to thoughts – examine your direct experience.

Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:

How is the movement controlled?

Does a thought control it?

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

How is the decision made to turn the hand over?

Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

Who or what ​ chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

And again, how does it FEEL

Loving,

[BLovingJoy]

How does it FEEL to see this?

No feelings or sensations show up.

Palm Flipping Exercise

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.

2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.

Watch like a hawk.

Don't go to thoughts – examine your direct experience.

Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:

How is the movement controlled?

In direct experience, it just happens (automatically).

Does a thought control it?

No. In direct experience, thought does not control it. You can't find a thought that is moving the hand. You can directly investigate the hand object, and its just happening automatically. The color/movement/contours are all happening automatically. No thought (sense) is there. You may have thought with content show up talking about it in the background, but its not controlling it.

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

No. In direct experience a 'controller' cannot be found. It just happens automatically.

How is the decision made to turn the hand over?

It just happens (automatically).

Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

In direct experience, no one chose it. It just happened.

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

No. In direct experience, it just happens.

And again, how does it FEEL

No feelings or sensations show up. Only thoughts with the content of 'Conditioning is causing this to happen.' show up. Intellectually, the mind is just summarizing previous knowledge read from Buddhism/LU books.