Having moments of liberation - wanting more!

[BlueRacoon]

I have a recollection of a felt-shift (an "oh! I get it") where things just seemed different upon waking up. I didn't have any earth-shaking before and after experience as many describe where everything was funny or otherwise very different. It was more of a letting go (realizing all beliefs are mind-made (man-made)) and at times, some confusion there as beliefs come up and I have to dig in to them (what's real? is this true?). I also experienced a softening into experience and "it is what it is" which is (I think) why the reactivity towards myself and my husband shifted. That was a point several days later (with my husband) where I was surprised by how differently I experienced him. It was noticeable and that has continued to stay there. If I get hooked, it's much easier to unhook and I haven't had any big reactions since then.

Even my back pain has been an interesting experience. I've had minimal suffering around that. I'm mostly just working with it and working on restoring my function with a minimum of mental fuss about it. We lost out on a few days of diving and that didn't bother me at all, which was surprising. We had a nice time binging movies and hanging out on the ship.

Let me know your thoughts...

Best,

Katty

[Bluejay]

Splendid!

The shift doesn't have to be earth-shaking. Mine certainly wasn't. Usually it is very vivid and clear, even if it wasn't a big boom moment.

We want to reach a place where the self illusion can no longer be fabricated. It can be clear that there is no 'me' or 'doer' when looked into, but there may still be a feeling of doing, thinking, and so on.

Is this the case for you?

If you walk around, do you feel like you are walking?

If your back hurts, does it feel like your pain?

Cheerio! :-)

[BlueRacoon]

If you walk around, do you feel like you are walking?

If your back hurts, does it feel like your pain?

Those are good questions. I definitely have the sense with something simple like walking that I am being walked as opposed to me doing the walking. there is a clear sense if I put any attention on it that it’s just happening.

The question of the back pain is more interesting and harder to discern. I’m aware it’s a sensation and it’s just happening. I’m also aware that I will do what I’ll do to remedy it and help myself. As I consider it, I am also aware that the only one who can experience those sensations is me (this instance of consciousness). So if I go back to my analogy of the truly self driving car, that fully drives itself including choosing where to go, my consciousness is the only witness in that car. So there is a possessive there in that awareness that suggests selfing. I can see that the sensation exists without a “self” to see it, it just is there, a sensation. But that awareness that there is only one witness seems like selfing. Of course that is a thought. It feels a little tangled. It’s not “I am in pain” but my consciousness is the only witness to the pain. That seems true. Not sure what to do with that…

Your thoughts would be appreciated!

[Bluejay]

Those are good questions. I definitely have the sense with something simple like walking that I am being walked as opposed to me doing the walking. there is a clear sense if I put any attention on it that it’s just happening.

When you say I am being walked, is there a feeling of you being walked by something?

I'm being nit-picky here to make sure we don't miss anything.

But that awareness that there is only one witness seems like selfing. Of course that is a thought. It feels a little tangled. It’s not “I am in pain” but my consciousness is the only witness to the pain. That seems true. Not sure what to do with that…

It's good to discern between:

1. There is a sense of me, but you can see that it is a thought when you inquire
and
2. The sense of me no longer arises

So let's explore it and see :)

When you say consciousness, have a look at what it is referring to. You're reading this on a surface with different colors and black scribbles. This is called a screen.

So when you say consciousness, what is this referring to?

Does this make sense?

[BlueRacoon]

I’ve been investigating this today – my back pain – and while there is uniqueness with respect my consciousness of that pain, there isn’t a separate entity (a separate self) that owns that pain. I can see that. So all of the sensation localized in my body is accessible by this localized consciousness, but there is no owner of the sensations (the possessive doesn’t add up).

It’s clear intellectually. It’s clear emotionally when i consider it. But I don’t believe that distinction is there all the time.

Will be interested to hear your input…

[BlueRacoon]

It's good to discern between:

1. There is a sense of me, but you can see that it is a thought when you inquire
and
2. The sense of me no longer arises

I have the first but not the second. When lost in thought or activated about something, I have to remember/remind myself to look and see that the sense of me is a thought.

When you say consciousness, have a look at what it is referring to. You're reading this on a surface with different colors and black scribbles. This is called a screen.

So when you say consciousness, what is this referring to?

Consciousness is the present moment experiencing of sensation, sound, thoughts, tastes. It’s the ground for everything, but not anything separately experienced by itself (I used to think that - but then realized that was a thought). So right now I am experiencing consciousness as sight (seeing the phone screen), touch (holding the phone), and my body (which is currently hurting). It’s at times somewhat unified, and at times, attention is on one or the other in the foreground.

I’m going to consider that more, but those are my instant answers, which might actually tell you more about where I am.


With thanks,

Katty

[Bluejay]

Consciousness is the present moment experiencing of sensation, sound, thoughts, tastes. It’s the ground for everything, but not anything separately experienced by itself (I used to think that - but then realized that was a thought). So right now I am experiencing consciousness as sight (seeing the phone screen), touch (holding the phone), and my body (which is currently hurting). It’s at times somewhat unified, and at times, attention is on one or the other in the foreground.

So when attention is on one or the other, look for what this consciousness is exactly.

Where is it? 
What is the label consciousness referring to?
Can you find a border between consciousness and sensation/sound/thoughts/etc? (remember, just realizing it is a thought is the first step, but we also want the insight to happen on a gut level)

Thoughts will have answers, but try not to go there. Instead, just explore what you find. :)

[BlueRacoon]

Where is it?
What is the label consciousness referring to?
Can you find a border between consciousness and sensation/sound/thoughts/etc? (remember, just realizing it is a thought is the first step, but we also want the insight to happen on a gut level)

Thoughts will have answers, but try not to go there. Instead, just explore what you find. :)

I get it and will work with that today. Hopefully posting something tonight.

As always, the guidance is much appreciated!

[Bluejay]

Feel free to take your time. No rush :)

[BlueRacoon]

I have been looking - here is what I've found:

Where is it?

I can't find it in any place, other than as the screen that everything happens on, whether "I" (my mind) am "conscious" of it or not. It is ever present, whether my mind pays attention or not, is quiet or is chattering away.

What is the label consciousness referring to?

I suspect it is often referring to a thought, something like "Oh, I'm aware right now." But it isn't that thought, it is the medium of experience itself, whether that is noticed by the mind or not.

Can you find a border between consciousness and sensation/sound/thoughts/etc? (remember, just realizing it is a thought is the first step, but we also want the insight to happen on a gut level)

No, there's no border, no difference. That is clearer. I know I've seen this before, but it was helpful to re-see it again. It is very clear in my experience (versus thought) that consciousness is always there, whether I am mind-identified or not, noticing the now or lost in the future/past.

This is an aside - I have also been working with my pain, noticing the sensations, noticing the mind's reaction to those sensations, and noticing in the mind of wanting to figure it out and fix it. The pain is generally not all that bad if I just stop and be present with the sensations themselves. It's generally not that bad if I move slowly. I notice my mind generating pictures of what might be happening with my back that can trigger anxiety. I don't know that I've really been aware of that until now. My mind is definitely attached to "getting better" or "getting away" from it, and I can just notice the thinking happening. Sometimes I catch it right away and not get invested in an expectation, and sometimes I don't catch the loop until a bit of time has passed.

I was feeling pretty good last Thursday, we went to visit my mother, I made meaning with something she asked me to do that she refused to do herself or ask my brother to do (she doesn't value my time). I easily said no to the request. I could feel some tension in my back during the conversation. During the course of our dinner and out of my awareness, my back completely stiffened up. My mind's meaning making is that the stiffness was in response to thoughts/feelings (either unconscious anger (she doesn't value me!) or self-pressure in my mind (I am bad for not accommodating her). That is the product of my mind. I am aware that maybe it was just the chair or maybe it was just not being conscious with how I was sitting or maybe it was going to happen regardless. All thinking. I can sit outside of it off and on and just watch it.

As I do that, I'm really clear that the "self" is a construction of my mind, made up of internal and external inputs over my lifetime. It's easy to see and quite clear at this point. It can be still sticky - for example if my back is really hurting, the sense "I want this to pass!! I want to feel better" (resistance to what is), but the moment I see it and get a little distance from the mind, I can just come be with what is, and the resistance dissipates (even if the mind still protests).

I'll be looking forward to your response.

Much thanks!

[Bluejay]

You have become really good at exploring direct experience and seeing that it is not there. You have mastered this first step!

Now for the second and last step, you don't want to deconstruct the sense of self, but let it live, so you can explore it.

I can't find it in any place, other than as the screen that everything happens on, whether "I" (my mind) am "conscious" of it or not. It is ever present, whether my mind pays attention or not, is quiet or is chattering away.

How do you know consciousness is ever present even when you're not conscious of it? (apart from hearing/learning that it is)

The pain is generally not all that bad if I just stop and be present with the sensations themselves. It's generally not that bad if I move slowly. I notice my mind generating pictures of what might be happening with my back that can trigger anxiety. I don't know that I've really been aware of that until now. My mind is definitely attached to "getting better" or "getting away" from it, and I can just notice the thinking happening. Sometimes I catch it right away and not get invested in an expectation, and sometimes I don't catch the loop until a bit of time has passed.

That's great that you're able to notice it!

The mind can definitely brew up some disaster scenarios the moment something isn't right.

Have you heard of Dan Buglio from PainFreeYou.com?

Since you mentioned that your pain may be emotional, it may be worth checking out. He also has a YouTube channel. You can see if it resonates.

[BlueRacoon]

Thanks for the tip - I wasn’t aware of your guy but I am trained in psychosomatic causes of chronic pain and methods to relieve that pain. I don’t have a history of conversion, but I do have a history of suppression that I’ve done quite a bit of work on. So it’s possible and I’ve been considering it. In some ways I fit the profile and in other ways I don’t. I’ve dug down and felt and explored but I have not yet hit paydirt. Will keep at that for sure. I have ordered a HeartMath biofeedback sensor that should help with deeper meditation, thus soothing my nervous system which might help my back muscles let go.

How do you know consciousness is ever present even when you're not conscious of it? (apart from hearing/learning that it is)

I will look at this. I’m not sure exactly how I will look because by definition, I’m talking about times that the mind isn’t aware of being aware, and therefore (if I am not aware) how can I investigate in the moment to prove it to myself? I will be investigating the past, which is by definition a figment of the mind. Seems like the Zen Koan of one hand clapping. So it may be it just seems true/likely. But I’ll give it a go…

As always, thank you!

[BlueRacoon]

I have decided that I can't really "prove" that I'm conscious when I'm in the "theatre" of my mind, other than the moment of shift to present-moment awareness, there is a moment where I seem to have been there as I'm shifting to here (hope that makes sense). But per my point before, I can't really investigate it because it is always in the past (and therefore in my mind).

Any tips or thoughts on that? Otherwise, that's my answer...

[BlueRacoon]

Just an aside - Got in to a FeldenKrais chiropractor yesterday. The bruised rib I got from the massage that I had back in November sprained two of my ribs pressing them together and jarred another rib so it was caught underneath the other two. So no wonder I’ve been having pain - not psychosomatic other than that stress makes it worse. That injury caused a ripple effect throughout my spine. Glad to have a target of treatment and to be finally on the road to recovery.

[Bluejay]

Just an aside - Got in to a FeldenKrais chiropractor yesterday. The bruised rib I got from the massage that I had back in November sprained two of my ribs pressing them together and jarred another rib so it was caught underneath the other two. So no wonder I’ve been having pain - not psychosomatic other than that stress makes it worse. That injury caused a ripple effect throughout my spine. Glad to have a target of treatment and to be finally on the road to recovery.

Oh, that's great!

I have decided that I can't really "prove" that I'm conscious when I'm in the "theatre" of my mind, other than the moment of shift to present-moment awareness, there is a moment where I seem to have been there as I'm shifting to here (hope that makes sense). But per my point before, I can't really investigate it because it is always in the past (and therefore in my mind).

And if you can't investigate it, do you still feel it to be true? If so, what makes it so?