Unraveling

[davjak]

Can you control if you trip or don't trip again?

Do you control the path that the character David is on?

No, this was just part of what was buried in the reluctance.

Also, what makes doubt thoughts special? Do they say anything about reality, or is it another way to get caught in the illusion that life can be controlled?

Yes, they are holding onto illusion. Doubt presupposes a doubter and a position upon which the doubter is resting. They are both nothing but unexamined thoughts.

Where there is doubt, there is avoidance of feeling, so see if you can spot the feeling that is underneath the doubt. What is it?

The feelings were weakness, fearful hiding, trying to feel something to cling to for support, clinging to old structure. It feels like that's now been moved through.
The video was wonderful, such an amazing discussion!

On the cushion there is a deeper dropping of any sense of involvement. Then there is settling that brings to attention what I've referred to as I am. I see now there is a perception of qualities going on. There is the field of visual potential, a sense of proportion or dimension, other sense perceiving, a perspective from which these are experienced, like the darkened, empty stage itself. Then a silencing and stopping of all this can settle, but it's fleeting. Simply persist until all this becomes more familiar terrain, would you say?

[Bluejay]

On the cushion there is a deeper dropping of any sense of involvement. Then there is settling that brings to attention what I've referred to as I am. I see now there is a perception of qualities going on. There is the field of visual potential, a sense of proportion or dimension, other sense perceiving, a perspective from which these are experienced, like the darkened, empty stage itself. Then a silencing and stopping of all this can settle, but it's fleeting. Simply persist until all this becomes more familiar terrain, would you say?

Not sure what you're saying here. Can you simplify?

Is it now 100% clear that there is no inherent self doing something, or is there still something?

[davjak]

Where there is doubt, there is avoidance of feeling, so see if you can spot the feeling that is underneath the doubt. What is it?

That was my experience from my morning meditation, noticing the experience and seeing through a subtle sense of involvement. It's like a subtle back and forth of recognizing, and then it drops when recognized. Then there's a sense of those movements settling. Like, when getting very quiet, there's a recognition of the subtleties still running in the background. Attention to them causes it to relax and dissolve. And then attention turns to the sense of where this was playing out, the sense from where it's seen. This place of seeing has its own qualities when not examined. It feels like a sense of position, visual potential, a white noise, a sense of viewing perspective or witnessing. Then all this can settle in a deeper quiet that isn't stable. Thoughts appear and grab attention. This is my usual meditation experience. Does it sound like gibberish or confusion or ideas?

Is it now 100% clear that there is no inherent self doing something, or is there still something?

It's 100% clear. If some subtlety arises that feels contrary, it's recognized as thought, habit, sensation. If I say that in the meditation I recognize a releasing and a little dropping into recognition of non-doing, no control, that implies a dropping from some control sense/habit, but this too, I see is what is, with no one doing it. Do you see anything amiss here?

[davjak]

Actually, I do see something still running. It's a sense of one who has this now, one who get it. There's still something not dissolved here. It feels energetic, an angry, arrogant inhabitant. I see this needs to be looked into.

[Bluejay]

Actually, I do see something still running. It's a sense of one who has this now, one who get it. There's still something not dissolved here. It feels energetic, an angry, arrogant inhabitant. I see this needs to be looked into.

Where is the of one who has it now?
Is it an image? Is that the one who has it?
The sensation? Is that the one?
The words 'I have it', is that the one?
Where is this one?

Is this whole process also not happening by itself?

[davjak]

This came up based on an earlier phone call with my sister. It's a time of stress dealing with aging parents, sickness, loss, travel, expense and a lot of other things. Her husband had to leave immediately to go to family, and she is in guilt, hand wringing, concern, victim identity. In responding to the previous questions, it came to me that on the phone, I had impatience for her drama and lack of empathy. It felt like repressed anger, intolerance, constriction, etc. None of this manifested overtly, at least not very much. But I see it aroused identification as the one who always encourages her to look at her stuff so she is not at the mercy of turbulent emotions. So it was from the position of the preacher, the one who does work on his stuff, the one who feels frustration that his advice is not heeded.

After I posted that there is still more here to be looked at, there was kind of a backspinning into 'Oh no, there is all this emotional baggage still to face. This is too much. Another stumbling and false reporting.' After being in confusion a bit there was a 'Wait a minute. LU is not about working through all the emotional baggage. It's about seeing through the illusion of involvement as a doer in any of this.' There was some release, no one who was angry, no one who held an opinion or resisted, no one who falsely reported. I felt the lightness of being out from under the weight of the delusion, but not entirely out. It's as if things need to settle almost back to the baseline state before I get perspective.

Where is the of one who has it now?

No one had it; no one lost it.

Is it an image? Is that the one who has it?

It feels like pre-image, if that makes sense, like an unseen sense of image, totally nebulous.

The sensation? Is that the one?
The words 'I have it', is that the one?
Where is this one?

When I was in the grip it felt like constriction, anger, holding a position of forceful opinion, resistance to emotion, pressure, a lot of it being behind the face. I looked at it as thinking, sensation, but I didn't stay and do this thoroughly.

Again, it was the strong, sudden appearance of a delusion, like a phantom presence. Now there's thoughts of inquiring into all this. The past weeks have been all intensely personal, with little pressing from the interpersonal. My sister and I are twins, so there's a lot of friction and stickiness there. I see this is the story, though.

[davjak]

Now I can see another thing running in the background. It's a sense of obsessive pursuit, being on a mission of becoming. The annoyance I often feel with my sister is that it feels like an interruption. An individual is in hot pursuit of something and doesn't like to be bothered with what is not this obsession. It feels like interference, uninteresting distraction, like I don't have time for what is not part of my agenda of discovery, seeking, finding, getting.

I can see layers of delusion and identity implied here. To feel interruption is to see separation, an I apart from what can interfere. I see the absurdity; it's like 'this is the reality I choose, and these other things interfere from the outside. Basically, it's saying "I want this to happen and not that." It's taking issue with what is happening as if there is one who can take issue with what happens, what arises in awareness. I see the absurdity of getting pissed off about what happens, of objecting to it, wanting it to be different from what it is. I feels like I am moving so fast with an energy of seeking, and a monkey wrench gets thrown into the works. There's quite a bit of heat to this when it's with my sister. All of it has been so overlooked, this sense of speed and passion and resistance to interference and objection when interference does arise. I see the identity that has been carrying out this mission.

[Bluejay]

After I posted that there is still more here to be looked at, there was kind of a backspinning into 'Oh no, there is all this emotional baggage still to face. This is too much. Another stumbling and false reporting.' After being in confusion a bit there was a 'Wait a minute. LU is not about working through all the emotional baggage. It's about seeing through the illusion of involvement as a doer in any of this.' There was some release, no one who was angry, no one who held an opinion or resisted, no one who falsely reported. I felt the lightness of being out from under the weight of the delusion, but not entirely out. It's as if things need to settle almost back to the baseline state before I get perspective.

Exactly. And just because you see there is no doer/controller of the anger doesn't mean that it disappears. It's the next layer of selfing, which is reactivity.

Now I can see another thing running in the background. It's a sense of obsessive pursuit, being on a mission of becoming. The annoyance I often feel with my sister is that it feels like an interruption. An individual is in hot pursuit of something and doesn't like to be bothered with what is not this obsession. It feels like interference, uninteresting distraction, like I don't have time for what is not part of my agenda of discovery, seeking, finding, getting.

What life brings is exactly what you need. Your sister has nothing to do with this. She is perfect as she is. This is your shadow and triggers.

I can see layers of delusion and identity implied here. To feel interruption is to see separation, an I apart from what can interfere. I see the absurdity; it's like 'this is the reality I choose, and these other things interfere from the outside. Basically, it's saying "I want this to happen and not that." It's taking issue with what is happening as if there is one who can take issue with what happens, what arises in awareness. I see the absurdity of getting pissed off about what happens, of objecting to it, wanting it to be different from what it is. I feels like I am moving so fast with an energy of seeking, and a monkey wrench gets thrown into the works. There's quite a bit of heat to this when it's with my sister. All of it has been so overlooked, this sense of speed and passion and resistance to interference and objection when interference does arise. I see the identity that has been carrying out this mission.

Wanting and not wanting are also reactivity. It happens without any self. There is suffering without the self, because the self never existed.

All I will do is point you to if there is a doer in any of this. Did you choose this? Can you make this go away? Is this happening by itself?

Who is moving too fast?

What is speed in this moment? How is the feeling of 'too fast' created?

When we are done with our conversation, I'll give you resources and groups to join that are solely focused on reactivity and emotional work.

Look at the seeking. What is the feeling you are avoiding by going into seeking?

[Bluejay]

It feels like pre-image, if that makes sense, like an unseen sense of image, totally nebulous.

I didn't see this one.

An unseen image that is nebulous, notice that this is also an image. Thoughts will try to become ephemeral, nebulous, unseen to make it seem like it's somehow inherent.

Do you see this?

So if there's an image of something unseen, is that the self?
The sense of image, is that the self then?

[davjak]

Exactly. And just because you see there is no doer/controller of the anger doesn't mean that it disappears. It's the next layer of selfing, which is reactivity.

This feels like such a critical piece that was not being allowed to come into awareness until now. It nows looks like such a division in the fabric of the person., like an unconscious sense of having the control to pick and choose what reality is manifesting. It feels like this leads directly into nowhere but now, what is happening, whatever is happening. It looks so absurd for there to be rejecting what is.

What life brings is exactly what you need. Your sister has nothing to do with this. She is perfect as she is. This is your shadow and triggers.

Yes, I see. Just like it occurred to me that the uncomfortable situation at work, with the cop on light duty was like an angel bringing exactly what needed to be faced in that moment, every moment, no matter how mundane, is what there is to face. There is nothing else. It looks strange to be in a trance that doesn't see this when it's happening. I see how it's all right here to wake us up.

All I will do is point you to if there is a doer in any of this. Did you choose this? Can you make this go away? Is this happening by itself?

Making it go away is the substance of the trance. And yes, it's like watching a drama play out. Control is illusory, unfounded, unsupported belief, non-existing.
What is speed in this moment? How is the feeling of 'too fast' created?
No one, it's pure sensation, thought, emotion, constriction of the visual field, that is only now recognized in retrospect. It comes from the division of having an agenda that is apart from the reality of present experience. There is fixation on an imaginary goal, but all this 'other stuff' is happening and demanding attention, in addition to where the character wants to devote attention. It makes it feel like two realities competing, too much happening at once. It's like trying to operate at two competing levels or run two character agendas at the same time, and it's draining to be functioning like this without recognizing it. It's like a constant pulling in opposite directions. I can see that relief from this state could feel like a healing.

Look at the seeking. What is the feeling you are avoiding by going into seeking?

All of what feels like the filth of the character suit, the constant, vague and sometimes intense feeling of misery. Good question that goes to the root of trying to control what is presenting. Without a story or a belief in a past and future, there is nowhere to get to that is not right where I am, with whatever this is.

[Bluejay]

This feels like such a critical piece that was not being allowed to come into awareness until now. It nows looks like such a division in the fabric of the person., like an unconscious sense of having the control to pick and choose what reality is manifesting. It feels like this leads directly into nowhere but now, what is happening, whatever is happening. It looks so absurd for there to be rejecting what is.

Yes, this is classic reactivity territory.

All of what feels like the filth of the character suit, the constant, vague and sometimes intense feeling of misery. Good question that goes to the root of trying to control what is presenting. Without a story or a belief in a past and future, there is nowhere to get to that is not right where I am, with whatever this is.

There is no one doing this, and nowhere to get to, but this misery underneath has to be felt fully, for it deserves to be here, and is here to be heard.

Now, what seems to be happening is that you are naturally going into reactivity territory, and the separate self questions seem clear to you.

This makes me want to wrap up our conversation here so you can move on to material that can better help you dive into reactivity and push/pull that is coming up.

Does this sound good to you?

If so, I will share with you the final questions so we can see if something is missing.

[davjak]

This makes me want to wrap up our conversation here so you can move on to material that can better help you dive into reactivity and push/pull that is coming up.

Does this sound good to you?

If so, I will share with you the final questions so we can see if something is missing.

Yes, I agree. It occurred to me that the past 2 year period of fervent seeking was like the gathering of a storm. The storm got going with LU and working with you, and it's been raging these past few weeks. Now it feels like so much has gotten blown out and things are so much calmer. I had headache and neck pain/tension every day from the time I got up in the morning. But today marks the 5th day in a row of not waking up with tension in the neck and a headache. I don't know how to thank you Henri. You were there, not getting lost when I was deep in confusion and deception. I hope we can stay in touch occasionally.

[Bluejay]

But today marks the 5th day in a row of not waking up with tension in the neck and a headache. I don't know how to thank you Henri. You were there, not getting lost when I was deep in confusion and deception. I hope we can stay in touch occasionally.

That's interesting and amazing to hear!

You can always reach me via the forum here. If you click my profile you can PM me or email me.

I'll post the final questions in the next post.

[Bluejay]

Here are the final questions. Just answer from direct experience while keeping it as simple as possible. And feel free to take your time. No rush.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit, or bits, that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

[davjak]

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No. There is nothing a separate entity can be made from. No form, no movement, no substance or thing can exist apart from, independently of the whole. There never was nor will be a separate entity. 'Entity' is a concept, an imaginary construct only. Entities do not exist in direct experience.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The illusion of separate selfhood is the assumption of being a responsible, independently acting, thinking and feeling agent. It felt like the need to do, get and become something other than what is, to take action and exercise control. It felt like a need to bring about results and make things feel better and more easeful and fulfilling. From my own experience I don't know when it started. It simply seemed to be how it felt to be David. It felt like what David was. It felt heavy, dirty, defective, tiring, cursed and many other things, nearly all unpleasant.

The separate self illusion works in the manner of a trance, a spell or a dream. These things are story-based projections overlaid upon direct experience. Thoughts, images, sensations, smells and maybe tastes are taken as an identity. It seems as if someone inhabits a body and is responsible for it, its actions and its maintenance. There is no continuity to this sense. Sometimes it was intensely here, sometimes it was nowhere to be found, forgotten about. A separate self is a shape-shifting experience of misidentification. The idea of being held in a state of suspended animation in a goo-filled pod, from the movie the Matrix is a good metaphor for how sticky, encasing, persistent and hidden from awareness the delusion can be.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

I am not yet entirely sure how it 'feels'. One thing I can say is calmer, more at ease. I have had chronic tension and pain in the neck and headaches for more than 10 years. This past year I saw a doctor, was diagnosed with arthritis and paid over $500 for physical therapy to learn exercises I never did. Recently, the tension and headaches were something I would wake up with every morning. Beginning the morning before Henri said I was starting to sound clear, I have had 5 consecutive days of getting up in the morning without headache or tension in the neck. My sleep pattern seems impacted as well, with less waking during the night. For the past 20 years I would awaken about every 90 minutes during the night.

The LU process felt like a turbulent storm that had been brewing. I felt a desire for it to expose and strip away the falsities that have been the source of so much misery. I feel it did exactly that. I felt myself to be at the point of willingness to commit anything necessary. I did 8 years of psychoanalytic psychotherapy beginning in my late 20s. Over the past few weeks I have had many insights that had remained inaccessible, as well as a lot of intense energy and emotion. I do feel this process was life-altering. It dispelled delusive beliefs and opened the way to the recognition of what is actually here, what thought was distracting from. I feel there is still much more to realize, and that this was a deep reorientation, like a great leap in the right direction, away from or out of confusion and needless suffering.

4) What was the last bit, or bits, that pushed you over, made you look?

All I can point to are three experiences that seemed significant. The first was an instance of clear seeing of what had for so long been taken as self. This was seen to be thought, sensation like pressure and constriction and something that was akin to image, felt visual, but was not actually an image. The absurdity of this being taken as who I was caused me to laugh out loud in disbelief. Another day there was an unusually clear sense of being disidentified from thought, and a bit later that morning, there was an unusually distinct sense of life happening without the involvement of an agent identified as self. Mostly it all just seemed to slowly coalesce.

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Decisions are thought processes that can precede actions, but are not actually causally related to events or actions. Thoughts appear to be conditioned by past events, but they are not connected to happenings or produced by a local, autonomous agent. They do not give rise to anything. Examples would be a career choice or or simple decision to eat an apple or not eat an apple. Such events are not influenced or determined by thought.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Intention is more thought and sensation that may or may not precede a decision to act. Intentions, like decisions are causally inert. An example would be intending to clean the house. The intention may persist and feel strong, but the condition of the house remains as it was, until certain events actually occur. When they do, thought is not a causal factor.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Free will is a concept predicated on assumptions such as, cause and effect, independent agency and control. It also rests on many other unfounded identifications, such as time and space, form, position, locality, etc. Free will says I can choose which shoes to wear. I can decide to go or not go. I can have whatever intention I please.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

When there there are options, more than one possible action or result, we call the one that happens a choice. Choice presupposes a chooser, a position from which to choose and many other layers of identification. Examples are that I chose to do LU. I chose to work hard at it. I chose to answer these questions. I am choosing what to say.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

Control is the belief in the ability to influence outcomes, to cause or bring about desired events. It's revealed in thoughts such as 'I can quiet my mind', 'You should try harder.' 'I should be more caring and considerate.'

What makes things happen? How does it work?

I haven't a clue what makes things happen, they just do. It looks and feels utterly mysterious, actually.

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

As a character in the drama I have many responsibilities and obligations. I'm responsible for playing a role, doing a job, having a vote, making a contribution, supporting others. In truth these things are happening, and there is no one responsible for any of it, nor anyone who could be responsible for it. Responsibility is an unfounded concept.

6) Anything to add?

I am immensely grateful for Henri's expert guidance. He's given a great gift. Thank you Henri.