Re: Awakening from the Victim Concept
Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2023 2:41 pm
Sorry, typos... : another guide.
Liberation Unleashed Forum The Gate
https://liberationunleashed.com:443/nation/
https://liberationunleashed.com:443/nation/viewtopic.php?t=9159
NODoes the sense of self have a location?
NODoes the sense of self have a shape or a size?
NODoes the sense of self say or communicate anything?
Thought, it is itself a thought that morphs into other thoughts. There is no self!If the answer is yes, how does the sense do this exactly?
NODoes the sense of self have any characteristics or attributes?
NothingWhat is the sense of self ‘made of’? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought?
Light, open, tingling sensations, emptiness. Thoughts (sometimes doubting), sensations, images, sounds. NO SELF. This energy that is everywhere.What is found?
I can say with 100% certainty that there is no separate self.Can you say 100% there's no separate "self? "
NO1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
The separate self is a thought that changes, accompanied by sensations about which thoughts are had. It comes from nowhere and has no origin. It is pure thought... and can't be found. Really it's a thought of ownership. But for whom? No one.2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
There are more open/light sensations more "consistently" and no ability to "get out of" experience or what is here to the same extent. There is no real seeking impulse attempting to find freedom from the current experience. It just is what it is. Whatever appears, appears (as direct experiencing). There also isn't "something" experiencing. Just experiencing. It is quieter.3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
I don't know... I don't think "I" had a choice and have no idea when or how it happened. Maybe it was the Dropbox meditations or the retreat I went to on Ibiza where there was just laughter. However, it is clear that the desire to maintain what I am as a thought has dropped away. When there was recognition that this might have happened it was actually surprising. When I heard certain words during the Ibiza retreat it triggered spontaneous laughter, the recognition that there was no control, and the sense that the separate self never wanted this nor was ever going to get it. Then an oscillation between recognition and "not getting it" over which there was no control. The Dropbox meditations seemed to simply affirm there was nothing and never had been.4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
The decision to bike to the park. It happens as a result of nothing with no self to control. Just the thoughts, just the images, sensations, colors, sounds and tastes. Direct experiencing.5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.
A thought such as "I am going to go to the grocery store", direct experiences of images, colors, sensations, tastes and sounds happening. Such as the sound of cars, the images of grocery items, the sensation of holding a bag of lemons and the sensation of pants against the legs and feet on the ground while walking back.Describe intention & give examples from experience.
The appearance of choice in choicelessness/direct experiencing. The appearance of the direct experience of a thought about going to bet on a soccer match and the sensations, images, sounds and tastes that go along with placing the bet and watching the match. The appearance is that the thought was the choice made by something or someone that isn't there but is thought to be. But, really direct experiencing of what appears is simply happening in the "form" of the thought about a chooser and choice and the images/colors, sensations etc. There isn't any choice, just the thought of one.Describe free will & give examples from experience.
The chooser appears as an "I-thought". Thoughts appear about choices such as the choice to send in a job application or rest in the sensations of the heart. Choice is just thought about what is already happening. Appearance of images/colors, sounds, sensations happen. Thoughts about these experiences happen. Choice is thought. That is it.Describe choice & give examples from experience.
Control is the thought that there is a "controller", I, or separate self that stands apart from experience. Sometimes there are thoughts about controlling emotions or experiences or how 'I' behave. There is the appearance of a thought about a self. Then there is thought about that self "controlling" this experience. A thought about taking ownership of the experience appears. But, there is just thoughts, sensations, sounds, smells etc. Not something apart from experience influencing experience. Just direct experiencing. The thoughts assume there is someone there (almost like a reflex) but there isn't. This if very funny.Describe control & give examples from experience.
Nothing makes anything happen. For something to make things happen there has to be something separate from what is happening. There is just what is happening... which is thoughts arising, sensations, images/colors, smells, tastes and sounds appearing. That is all that is ever known/experienced. Just this.What makes things happen? How does it work?
There is nothing to be responsible for anything. If "I" make my brother upset because the dishes aren't done and I am responsible for making sure "I" do "my" dishes there is thought about needing to do dishes or no thought about doing dishes and the direct experiencing of the moment. In fact, the question seems silly. There might be the sounds of "my brother" (image/color) yelling and more closed sensations and the thought about needing to do the dishes next time. There might even be closed sensations that thoughts label as guilt, and the images/colors, sensations of dishes being done next time. But there isn't a "someone" that's going to do it differently... this is just thought. That doesn't mean the dishes don't get done lol.What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
It is surprising that it's so simple. Nothing grandiose or rapturous. Just direct experiencing and/or what is happening. It's almost like the questions don't make sense. Like asking "what is the marital status of the number 5?" How could there be a separate self, choices, reasons for things happening, doers etc.? The mind still doesn't understand any of this and never will. The thoughts assumed someone was here for so long and that something had to be done about that. Turns out it isn't true! The whole business seems very silly. I'm grateful for my guide Stacy! Thank you!!6) Anything to add?