West Cork Ireland- asking for Kay

[forgetmenot]

Hey Ado,

Just wanted to check in with you quickly before I go to work.

Thank you :)

I have been looking a lot in the last few days and I haven't really stopped looking at all but I can see that I had lost focus a little on this process. I have done the exercise with the hands feet legs stomach arms and head and it is clear to me that the sensations of these body parts do run in parralel to the sight of them. It is a strange feeling. It goes against all the structures and beliefs I have about my body.

Yes, exactly! That is why we ask when you register how willing are you to looking at your current beliefs, as this inquiry is about blowing apart beliefs that are not true and keep the idea of a separate self who is suffering in play. That is why I say that this exploration is about unlearning everything you think you know.

Old ideas are difficult to change, because everything believed is rooted in time. Look at a cup, for example. Do you see a cup, or are you merely reviewing your past experiences of picking up a cup, being thirsty, drinking from a cup, feeling the rim of a cup against your lips, having breakfast and so on? Are not your aesthetic reactions to the cup, too, based on past experiences? How else would you know whether or not this kind of cup will break if you drop it? What do you know about this cup except what you learned in the past? You would have no idea what this cup is, except for your past learning. Do you, then, really see it?

The label ‘cup’ is AE of thought and not AE of a cup
Colour labelled ‘cup’ is AE of colour and not AE of a cup
Sensation labelled as ‘cup against your lips’ is AE of sensation and not AE of cup against lips.
Sensation labelled a ‘warm cup of coffee’ is AE of sensation and not AE of cup with warm coffee.
The thoughts about a cup ie what it is, what it is for, what it is made from etc, are thoughts ABOUT thought, because ‘cup’ is a label and is not the AE of a cup!

If you really LOOK at a cup…what do you find? Is a cup actually known?

And around where is the pain located its starting to dawn on me that it is just thought that tells me its located in the finger and that without taking thought into account the pain/sensation is just there but not particularly anywhere. Anyhow I'll keep looking and I'll send a more lengthy post tomorrow afternoon.

Yes....just thought that tellS you its located in the finger! NICE LOOKING! :)

I look forward to your post tomorrow.

Love, Kay

[Clashnacrona]

Hi Kay,

Here are my responses to your last post.

Can you see that both the ‘visual sight’ (colour) and the sensation appear simultaneously but ‘separately’, meaning that none of them is coming from the other or contained by the other?

I did this exercise a number of times and as I think I mentioned the last time my experience was that of them just appearing beside each other with no apparent connection between the visual image of the hand and the felt sensation of hand when my eyes were closed. It is a strange feeling but also clear that it is just a belief and thought that connects the visual image with the felt sense.

Do they just appear equally, ‘beside’ each other without any hierarchy or link between them?

Yes they just appeared beside each other and neither seemed to be more important than the other. As I said above it was disconcerting to find no link between them.

Is there any link between the sensation and the sight ie colour? In other words is the sensation actually ‘coming from’ the sight (colour labelled as ‘hand’), or only thought and mental constructs link them?

It does only seem to be thought and mental constructs that links the visual and the sensation. There is obviously a strongly held belief that has always presumed that the sensation has been found in the visual image when in fact that is not the case.

Spend some time doing this and report back on what you found.

I did the same exercise with all the other body parts and again found that the visual and sensation ran parallel even with the head which I found fascinating. I will do this exercise a couple of more times but the evidence so far is that there is no connection bar what thought and old beliefs try to tell me about it.

What is the AE of sensation?

It is just a sensation a feeling in the body but it is only thought that will label the sensation as pain or hot or cold or pleasant or unpleasant. I am beginning to notice sensations more and more as I go throughout my day and when I don’t label them and just observe them they seem to pass through the body much more quickly and easily. It is the thought story that is put on the sensation or feeling that causes all the suffering.

What is the AE of the body?

The AE of the body is just an image that is seen in the mirror. Even the sensations that thought tries to label as being felt in the leg or arm or stomach don’t correlate with the visual image as the above experiment has shown.

A sensation is known, yes…as is colour, smell, taste, thought etc. Where does sensation (known) end, and the knowing of it begin? Can you find a dividing line between the knowing of/as sensation and the sensation itself? Or is there simply knowingknown – ie no dividing line?

Sensation is just there and is full stop. The knowing of it beginning and end are one and the same thing.
Don’t just answer “there is no dividing line”. I want you to look at this very carefully. If there is no dividing line between the sensation and the knowing of the sensation…what are the implications of this?

The implications of this are that there is no division between anything or anybody and that we are all part of the one experience. In other words that there is just experiencing and nothing else. I was sitting outside the front of my house yesterday evening after work and I just sat in stillness first with my eyes closed in the midst of the birds singing and the traffic passing in the road below and at the same time being in the felt sensations in the body. I did the same with the eyes open and with the eyes open I felt like the display was in front of me and also passing through the two holes in my face.
I also had a similar feeling while driving home that evening as if the passing display in front of my was entering and exiting the body through the eyes. It wasn’t even a passing through it like it was just there. Not sure if that makes any sense.

Does a sensation itself suggest in any way that it is good or bad?

No it doesn’t and I’m only just beginning to see this. Thought will very strongly suggest that the feeling is good or bad happy or sad but it is just memory which is another thought telling me this. The beliefs and conditioning around sensation are need to be dismantled.

Does the sensation in any way suggest that it is intense, subtle, painful or negative?

No sensation just is and as you say is just part of experience knowing doesn’t suggest any of these things it is only thought that says that. As I have mentioned above it is the beliefs and years of conditioning that links sensation with thought and it it great to start to see that these judgments that thought lays over experience have nothing really to do with that AE.

What is the AE of ‘finger’?

The AE of finger is just colour and the supposed felt sensation correlating with tha,t which is just thought putting 2+2 together and coming up with 5.

Where is this finger you are talking about? Please start to LOOK instead of going to stories.
Where is experience located?

Thought tells me that the finger is located at the end of my hand but after doing the above experiment it is clear now that finger is only really located in experience. If there is no connection between the sensation and the sight of finger then it is just part of experiencing and not located in any particular place. An infant doesn’t know it has any body never mind a finger because it hasn’t been ‘told’ that this is a finger or thumb or arm or leg etc etc…

What is the AE of "physically throbbing"?

It is just a sensation and again part of experiencing and it is only thought that tries to tell me otherwise.

Was experience of pain located in the finger?

No it is experienced as part of experiencing and not located anywhere.


What is the AE of 'finger'?

It is an AE of colour or image that the thought labels as finger but in fact it is just part of experiencing.

There was shift in perception in the last couple of days where the ‘I’ felt like it was much more in the background and there seemed to be much more of experiencing happening. Sensations and feelings seemed to just pass throught the body with very little stickiness but the distracting behaviors came back with a bit of a vengence again today but that is just the way it is for now.

Take Care

Ado

[forgetmenot]

Hello Ado,

What a wonderful post to read!

Can you see that both the ‘visual sight’ (colour) and the sensation appear simultaneously but ‘separately’, meaning that none of them is coming from the other or contained by the other?

I did this exercise a number of times and as I think I mentioned the last time my experience was that of them just appearing beside each other with no apparent connection between the visual image of the hand and the felt sensation of hand when my eyes were closed.

Right, so when eyes are closed there is only sensation with a ‘mental’ image of a hand appearing. With eyes open there is colour which thought labels as ‘hand’ and thought says that the sensation is coming from the sight of the hand. If this were really the case, there would be no sensation felt when the eyes were closed…right?

And here is the youtube clip again..which shows you that there is no correlation between the sensation and sight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dphlhmt ... e=youtu.be

It is a strange feeling but also clear that it is just a belief and thought that connects the visual image with the felt sense.

Yes…so you see how thought works. It infers and suggests many many things…but you don’t just take thoughts word for anything. You check it with AE.

Do they just appear equally, ‘beside’ each other without any hierarchy or link between them?

Yes they just appeared beside each other and neither seemed to be more important than the other. As I said above it was disconcerting to find no link between them.

Great. Is there sensation AND the content of the sensation?
What is the content of a sensation?

Is there colour AND the content of the colour?
What is the content of a colour?

Is there any link between the sensation and the sight ie colour? In other words is the sensation actually ‘coming from’ the sight (colour labelled as ‘hand’), or only thought and mental constructs link them?

It does only seem to be thought and mental constructs that links the visual and the sensation. There is obviously a strongly held belief that has always presumed that the sensation has been found in the visual image when in fact that is not the case.

Exactly. So when there seems to be sensation happening in the ‘body’, is this actually the case or only thought and mental constructs link them?

Spend some time doing this and report back on what you found.

I did the same exercise with all the other body parts and again found that the visual and sensation ran parallel even with the head which I found fascinating. I will do this exercise a couple of more times but the evidence so far is that there is no connection bar what thought and old beliefs try to tell me about it.

Lovely!

What is the AE of sensation?

It is just a sensation a feeling in the body but it is only thought that will label the sensation as pain or hot or cold or pleasant or unpleasant. I am beginning to notice sensations more and more as I go throughout my day and when I don’t label them and just observe them they seem to pass through the body much more quickly and easily. It is the thought story that is put on the sensation or feeling that causes all the suffering.

YES! If you just observe the thought without putting stories to them…they just pass on by.

The AE of sensation is thought. Thought points to THIS and divides it and labels it as sensation. Without thought dividing and labelling…a sensation is THIS appearing exactly as it is. When you look at it from this perspective…does THIS care what it appears as and what thought says the appearance is and does?

What is the AE of the body?

The AE of the body is just an image that is seen in the mirror. Even the sensations that thought tries to label as being felt in the leg or arm or stomach don’t correlate with the visual image as the above experiment has shown.

Nice, however the AE of the body is thought. Thought points to colour and sensation and labels them as ‘body’. Can a body be found IN/AS colour or sensation?

A sensation is known, yes…as is colour, smell, taste, thought etc. Where does sensation (known) end, and the knowing of it begin? Can you find a dividing line between the knowing of/as sensation and the sensation itself? Or is there simply knowingknown – ie no dividing line?

Sensation is just there and is full stop. The knowing of it beginning and end are one and the same thing.

Yes….so there is no division. Since there is no division…can anything be found that is actually experiencing sensations?

Don’t just answer “there is no dividing line”. I want you to look at this very carefully. If there is no dividing line between the sensation and the knowing of the sensation…what are the implications of this?

The implications of this are that there is no division between anything or anybody and that we are all part of the one experience. In other words that there is just experiencing and nothing else. I was sitting outside the front of my house yesterday evening after work and I just sat in stillness first with my eyes closed in the midst of the birds singing and the traffic passing in the road below and at the same time being in the felt sensations in the body. I did the same with the eyes open and with the eyes open I felt like the display was in front of me and also passing through the two holes in my face.

What face? How is it known that there are “two holes in my face” or that there is even a head? Can you see your head?

I also had a similar feeling while driving home that evening as if the passing display in front of my was entering and exiting the body through the eyes. It wasn’t even a passing through it like it was just there. Not sure if that makes any sense.

If it appears as if words are seen through looking with the eyes
Eyes would be needed, right?
What is actually known right now about eyes, except thought about them?

Does a sensation itself suggest in any way that it is good or bad?

No it doesn’t and I’m only just beginning to see this. Thought will very strongly suggest that the feeling is good or bad happy or sad but it is just memory which is another thought telling me this. The beliefs and conditioning around sensation are need to be dismantled.

Yes! So each time you find yourself saying that something is bad or good…remember this!

Does the sensation in any way suggest that it is intense, subtle, painful or negative?

No sensation just is and as you say is just part of experience knowing doesn’t suggest any of these things it is only thought that says that. As I have mentioned above it is the beliefs and years of conditioning that links sensation with thought and it it great to start to see that these judgments that thought lays over experience have nothing really to do with that AE.

Nice! You are doing great. You are starting to have break throughs…lovely to see!

So let’s take it a step further to check and see if there is a link between thought and sensation.

1. Put aside 10-15 minutes and sit quietly with your eyes closed.
2. Think of a story that brings up the sensation ‘anxiety’ (or fear) - one that you can feel in the body but not too intense that it overwhelms you.
3. Then with eyes still closed, I want you to LOOK very very carefully to see if you can find/see an actual link between the thought and the sensation ‘anxiety’. You are looking to find if there is something that links the thought/story with the sensation labelled as ‘anxiety’.
4. If the sensation starts to dissipate/weaken, then bring the story to mind again until the sensation is felt clearly again, then continue looking to see if you can see/find a link. You are looking for an actual link that connects the thought/story with the sensation.
5. If you find yourself following thought instead of looking carefully for the link, just bring your attention gently back to the sensation and continue looking.

Do this exercise at least 3-4 times throughout the next 2-3 days making sure to look very carefully.
Let me know what you find

What is the AE of ‘finger’?

The AE of finger is just colour and the supposed felt sensation correlating with tha,t which is just thought putting 2+2 together and coming up with 5.

The AE of finger = thought. Thought points to colour and sensation and labels it finger. Without thought overlaying experience with story…all that is known is colour and sensation. Finger is not known.

Where is this finger you are talking about? Please start to LOOK instead of going to stories.
Where is experience located?

Thought tells me that the finger is located at the end of my hand but after doing the above experiment it is clear now that finger is only really located in experience. If there is no connection between the sensation and the sight of finger then it is just part of experiencing and not located in any particular place. An infant doesn’t know it has any body never mind a finger because it hasn’t been ‘told’ that this is a finger or thumb or arm or leg etc etc…

Yes! :)

What is the AE of "physically throbbing"?

It is just a sensation and again part of experiencing and it is only thought that tries to tell me otherwise.

Yes. Does sensation in any way suggest that it is throbbing? Does sensation itself know anything about throbbing? These are good questions to ask whenever sensations are appearing and thoughts have appeared labelling the sensation and telling stories about the sensation.

There was shift in perception in the last couple of days where the ‘I’ felt like it was much more in the background and there seemed to be much more of experiencing happening. Sensations and feelings seemed to just pass throught the body with very little stickiness but the distracting behaviors came back with a bit of a vengence again today but that is just the way it is for now.

Lovely! Yes…it SEEMS like there is a backlash when perceptions shift. But you now know what to look for and what is actually appearing…so you just keep doing that type of looking. You are doing great, Ado….keep it up.

Love, Kay

[Clashnacrona]

Hi Kay,

Just checking in I'm working a long day tomorrow so probably won't get to post properly till Saturday. I have tried doing the exercise around bringing a thought story re anxiety or fear and I'm finding it very difficult to get in touch with any fear. I don't think there's a block there. I'm remembering situations that would normally induce feelings of fear and it just doesn't seem to be coming up. Any suggestions would be much appreciated cos I'm keen to do the exercise properly. I'll keep trying and put up a post on Saturday.

All the best

Ado

[forgetmenot]

Hello Ado....use any type of thought that brings up a sensation...be it a thought of not good enough, about shame, guilt, whatever.

Kay

[Clashnacrona]

Hi Kay,

I have done the exercise around trying to find the link with sensations and thought and I’ll talk a about that shortly. I just wanted to mention that I have been experiencing real difficulty sleeping over the last week or so. Three times I have got almost no sleep and been awake for hours before I was due to go to work the next morning and consequently been exhausted for the day in work. What usually happens is that thought comes in quite aggressively and tell me that I’m going to have a shit day in work and I’ll be in a bad grumpy mood and lots more negative thoughts tend to follow on from that.
What has been noticed in the last 3/4 days is that there seems to be a noticing of these thoughts without necessary engaging with them a lot. I had a terrible nights sleep the night before last and what when I got up at 5.40am to go to work I noticed the usual negative thoughts surfacing but I seemed to be able to observe them more and see that they were just thoughts and really nothing to do with anything and I didn’t engage with them much. In fact a clear thought came up which said something like what would it be like to go through the day without linking the sensation of tiredness with negative thinking about the tiredness that was being felt.
There was still tiredness in the body but amazingly I got through my day just noticing the thoughts and sensations in the body which was I suppose being in the experience and noticing rather than engaging. Anyhow I got home from work after doing a drumming class after work and slept for 11 hours and the body feels nicely rested now.

Great. Is there sensation AND the content of the sensation?
What is the content of a sensation?

There is only sensation and no content to it is only thought that offers a running commentary on what is supposedly in the sensation itself.

Is there colour AND the content of the colour?
What is the content of a colour?

Again thought will try and tell me there is a content to the colour like the green/brown colour I’m looking at out the house are trees with have bark on them and leaves and so on but isn’t it just all colour really with no actual content. It is thought that labels the content of what the colour being seen is.

Exactly. So when there seems to be sensation happening in the ‘body’, is this actually the case or only thought and mental constructs link them?

Sensation is just happening in experience full stop. Thought and beliefs, (which are just more thoughts), tell me that the sensation is happening in the body but in fact it is just there and not located particularly anywhere.

Nice, however the AE of the body is thought. Thought points to colour and sensation and labels them as ‘body’. Can a body be found IN/AS colour or sensation?

No it is only thought that tells me that there is a body and as the prevoius exercise pointed to the sensations and the sight of say a hand run in parallel and show that there is nothing more than sensations and colour so no a body can’t be found in colour or sensation.

Yes….so there is no division. Since there is no division…can anything be found that is actually experiencing sensations

Going on all of the above there is only experiencing as it is happening so no there doesn’t need to be anyone to experience this it is all just happening in the present moment.

What face? How is it known that there are “two holes in my face” or that there is even a head? Can you see your head?

It isn’t known that is just another conditioned thought and a head can’t be seen either as it is all just experiencing without the need for a body/head with which to experience it.

If it appears as if words are seen through looking with the eyes
Eyes would be needed, right?
What is actually known right now about eyes, except thought about them?

There is just seeing and therefore no need for eyes with which to see. What is described as eyes is merely thoughts and conditioned beliefs about eyes.

So let’s take it a step further to check and see if there is a link between thought and sensation.

1. Put aside 10-15 minutes and sit quietly with your eyes closed.
2. Think of a story that brings up the sensation ‘anxiety’ (or fear) - one that you can feel in the body but not too intense that it overwhelms you.
3. Then with eyes still closed, I want you to LOOK very very carefully to see if you can find/see an actual link between the thought and the sensation ‘anxiety’. You are looking to find if there is something that links the thought/story with the sensation labelled as ‘anxiety’.
4. If the sensation starts to dissipate/weaken, then bring the story to mind again until the sensation is felt clearly again, then continue looking to see if you can see/find a link. You are looking for an actual link that connects the thought/story with the sensation.
5. If you find yourself following thought instead of looking carefully for the link, just bring your attention gently back to the sensation and continue looking.

Do this exercise at least 3-4 times throughout the next 2-3 days making sure to look very carefully.
Let me know what you find

I have done this exercise a number of times and while thought will tell me that there is a obvious link between thought and sensations it is becoming clearer that this link is created by thought. Like I described above feeling exhausted in work after very little sleep when I observed the thoughts and the sensation of tiredness the thoughts didn’t have any power of anything. The sensation of tiredness was just there in the moment and was accepted as is.
For the exercise I brought to mind some situations around my ex and while the sensations/feelings were quite subtle it was seen that there was a strong belief there that thoughts can influence feelings and feelings/sensations bring on thoughts. This belief has given thoughts a lot of power which I thought then influenced the sensations but once the sensations are allowed to just be as part of experiencing they pass along quickly. When the same thing is done with thoughts they again are just observed and pass along quickly as well.
Also just to mention that I’m heading into night duty for 5 nights starting Sunday evening and finishing on Friday morning so I’ll keep up the looking but I may not be able to post much until next weekend.

Take Care

Ado

[forgetmenot]

Hi Ado,

What a fantastic and heartening post to read! Wow! From not being motivated a week or so ago, to now observing thoughts and just seeing them from what they are and letting them pass on by! This is awesome!

What has been noticed in the last 3/4 days is that there seems to be a noticing of these thoughts without necessary engaging with them a lot. I had a terrible nights sleep the night before last and what when I got up at 5.40am to go to work I noticed the usual negative thoughts surfacing but I seemed to be able to observe them more and see that they were just thoughts and really nothing to do with anything and I didn’t engage with them much. In fact a clear thought came up which said something like what would it be like to go through the day without linking the sensation of tiredness with negative thinking about the tiredness that was being felt.
There was still tiredness in the body but amazingly I got through my day just noticing the thoughts and sensations in the body which was I suppose being in the experience and noticing rather than engaging. Anyhow I got home from work after doing a drumming class after work and slept for 11 hours and the body feels nicely rested now.

Yes! When you don’t engage with thoughts…life just flows without the usual heaviness about it! Keep observing thought…this is a very important component to end suffering.

Great. Is there sensation AND the content of the sensation?
What is the content of a sensation?

There is only sensation and no content to it is only thought that offers a running commentary on what is supposedly in the sensation itself.

Yes and it is only thought that offers commentary on what the sensation is and the story the sensation is related to. We will look at the idea of the past shortly.

Is there colour AND the content of the colour?
What is the content of a colour?

Again thought will try and tell me there is a content to the colour like the green/brown colour I’m looking at out the house are trees with have bark on them and leaves and so on but isn’t it just all colour really with no actual content. It is thought that labels the content of what the colour being seen is.

Yes! :)

Exactly. So when there seems to be sensation happening in the ‘body’, is this actually the case or only thought and mental constructs link them?

Sensation is just happening in experience full stop. Thought and beliefs, (which are just more thoughts), tell me that the sensation is happening in the body but in fact it is just there and not located particularly anywhere.

Fantastic! Yes!

Yes….so there is no division. Since there is no division…can anything be found that is actually experiencing sensations

Going on all of the above there is only experiencing as it is happening so no there doesn’t need to be anyone to experience this it is all just happening in the present moment.

Yes…there is no division. Knowing and known are one and the same ie knowingknown…so there can not be an experiencer of experience or anyone or anything experiencing experience.

So let’s take it a step further to check and see if there is a link between thought and sensation.
Do this exercise at least 3-4 times throughout the next 2-3 days making sure to look very carefully.
Let me know what you find

I have done this exercise a number of times and while thought will tell me that there is a obvious link between thought and sensations it is becoming clearer that this link is created by thought. Like I described above feeling exhausted in work after very little sleep when I observed the thoughts and the sensation of tiredness the thoughts didn’t have any power of anything. The sensation of tiredness was just there in the moment and was accepted as is.

Bloody brilliant! So have a look to see if there is an actual link between thoughts about guilt, shame, fear, etc and sensation! The more you do this the more you see that there is no link.

For the exercise I brought to mind some situations around my ex and while the sensations/feelings were quite subtle it was seen that there was a strong belief there that thoughts can influence feelings and feelings/sensations bring on thoughts. This belief has given thoughts a lot of power which I thought then influenced the sensations but once the sensations are allowed to just be as part of experiencing they pass along quickly. When the same thing is done with thoughts they again are just observed and pass along quickly as well.

Yep…and this is how the beginning of the end of following thoughts and thought stories down the rabbit hole looks like…where stories are seen as just that…stories. And everything you think is, has happened etc are simply stories.

Also just to mention that I’m heading into night duty for 5 nights starting Sunday evening and finishing on Friday morning so I’ll keep up the looking but I may not be able to post much until next weekend.

Okay…thanks for letting me know.

So now, let’s have a look at the body.
Sit with eyes closed for about 15 minutes.
Paying attention only to the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images:

Can it be known how tall the body is?
Does the body have a weight or volume?
In actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?
Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

Is there an inside or an outside?
If there is an inside - inside of what exactly?
If there is an outside, the outside of what exactly?

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?
What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

Look very carefully, especially with the last question. Take your time, don’t rush. You can look several times during the day while doing other things (like washing hands, showering, having a short break from work, walking, etc.) before replying.

Kay

[Clashnacrona]

Hi Kay,

I have done this exercise a few times now and there I can't tell that there are any boundaries in AE. I even noticed that my hands were placed on my lap during the exercise and they seemed to one with my thighs like they had melted into each other.
Even my bottom and back that were on and up against the back of the chair were one with the chair. I'm writing this post on my phone on a break in work so hence I can't do the quote system. I'll post a more lengthy post in a couple of days.

All the best

Ado

[forgetmenot]

Hey Ado!

Great observation. Yes, when you actually look, everything melds into 'one', because there are no divisions, it is only thought that divides things into things! Keep up the fantastic looking! I look forward to your full report :)

Love, Kay

[Clashnacrona]

Kay,

I'm finishing nights tomorrow morning but I just wanted to check in with you before I head into work this evening. I was driving home from work yesterday morning and I had a lovely experience where I really allowed my tummy to relax and just felt it as sensation. I have put on a little weight in the last year since the separation and doing some comfort eating and there is has been quite a bit of shame associated with that. Something shifted yesterday where I just noticed the sensation in my tummy and didn't associate it with a body part and consequently the usual shaming negative thoughts just weren't there. This realisation stayed with me for quite a while but it has since but there has been some yo yoing again but I do feel it is important to mention it.

Can it be known how tall the body is?

It is impossible to know how tall e body is without reverting to memory. Going on AE there is just sensation and quite subtle at that.
Does the body have a weight or volume?

If my stomach is full thought will tell me that there full sensation is giving the body volume or weight but that again is only sensation which just melts into nothing.

In

actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

No it doesn't again there are subtle sensations but nothing linking them without thought and memory.

Is

there a boundary between the body and the clothing?

When the tummy relaxed and pushing against my shirt or belt the sensation of the belt or waistband initially felt like a boundary but on closer examination these too melted into the body and there was no boundary.

Is there a boundary between the body and the chair

?

There chair particularly if it was a hard backed one as opossed to a soft couch felt like more of a boundary but on closer examination it too melted into one.

Is

there an inside or an outside?
If there is an inside - inside of what exactly?

This was clearer to see that there was no inside or outside once stillness was established there was no exact location of a body at all.

If

there is an outside, the outside of what exactly?

There was no inside or outside it was only thought that tried to tell me there was.

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY

refer to?

I don't really know but it seems to be linked to a very strong belief that the body is the be all and end all of who we are when going on AE there isn't a body to be found.

What

is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

My initial response is that it's just sensation but looking more closely it is not anything a no thing. Thought will tell me that the sensation of tiredness and achiness after a long shift in work is in my feet or back or wherever but in fact is it just sensation which is just in experiencing full stop. Is it just experiencing with no need for a body or mind to be the experiencer. I'm not fully sure about this and I'm sure you'll be able to clarify this for me.

I posted this via my smartphone so the quote function didn't work perfectly.

All the best

Ado

[forgetmenot]

Hey Ado,

Another wonderful post to read! Fantastic looking! You have come such a long way in a short space of time. You are now cooking with gas…as they say! :)

I'm finishing nights tomorrow morning but I just wanted to check in with you before I head into work this evening. I was driving home from work yesterday morning and I had a lovely experience where I really allowed my tummy to relax and just felt it as sensation. I have put on a little weight in the last year since the separation and doing some comfort eating and there is has been quite a bit of shame associated with that. Something shifted yesterday where I just noticed the sensation in my tummy and didn't associate it with a body part and consequently the usual shaming negative thoughts just weren't there. This realisation stayed with me for quite a while but it has since but there has been some yo yoing again but I do feel it is important to mention it.

YES! This is what happens! This is how life becomes peaceful. What a great experience to see how thoughts are not connected to sensations, and if you see what is actually appearing, as opposed to what thought says is appearing...then everything is AOK and it simply passes on by. It is only when we follow thoughts down the rabbit hole that it becomes a problem. So you are aware of this now..and you can use this experience whenever other issues arise.

Can it be known how tall the body is?

It is impossible to know how tall e body is without reverting to memory. Going on AE there is just sensation and quite subtle at that.

Yes…nice! Only thoughts ABOUT the body seemingly create the idea of a body.

In actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

No it doesn't again there are subtle sensations but nothing linking them without thought and memory.

Yes…sensations do not have a shape, form or location. Nor do they have an image of any description.

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?

When the tummy relaxed and pushing against my shirt or belt the sensation of the belt or waistband initially felt like a boundary but on closer examination these too melted into the body and there was no boundary.

If you ignore all thoughts and images about clothing and body….yes, all there is, is sensation.

Is there an inside or an outside?
If there is an inside - inside of what exactly?

This was clearer to see that there was no inside or outside once stillness was established there was no exact location of a body at all.

Yes, so there is no ‘me here’ and a world and others ‘out there’! There is no object/subject split.

If there is an outside, the outside of what exactly?

There was no inside or outside it was only thought that tried to tell me there was.

Great noticing of thought…keep noticing thought…just observe all thoughts as they arise.

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?

I don't really know but it seems to be linked to a very strong belief that the body is the be all and end all of who we are when going on AE there isn't a body to be found.

The WORD/LABEL body actually refers to thought. The label ‘body’ is AE of thought only and is a concept.

What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

My initial response is that it's just sensation but looking more closely it is not anything a no thing. Thought will tell me that the sensation of tiredness and achiness after a long shift in work is in my feet or back or wherever but in fact is it just sensation which is just in experiencing full stop. Is it just experiencing with no need for a body or mind to be the experiencer. I'm not fully sure about this and I'm sure you'll be able to clarify this for me.

Lovely yes! So the actual experience of the body is thought only. Thought points to sensation and labels it ‘body’, but can a body be found in sensation? Does the sensation itself suggest in any way that it is a body?


Here is an even deeper investigation of the body. Please follow each step, don't leave out any. Take your time. Don't move to the next step until the previous one is clearly seen. Repeat the exercise several times.

Stand in front of a bigger mirror.

(1) First, close the eyes and feel the sensations labelled ‘body’.

(2) Then open the eyes and look into the mirror while still paying attention to the sensations.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror?
Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is?


(3) While still paying attention to the sensations move one hand and observe the movement from the mirror.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and image of movement in the mirror?

(4) Now do the same movement with the hand, but this time look at the hand directly, not from the mirror.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’?
Or only thoughts suggest it?

(5) Now, pay attention only to the image in the mirror.

Does the image by itself suggest in any way that is ‘you’ or ‘your body’?
Does the image itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘body’ at all?
Or are there only colours and shapes?

(6) Where the mirror ends, some parts of the body (probably legs) cannot be seen.

Just by the image in the mirror, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest so?

(7) Now turn away from the mirror and look forward (don’t look directly to any body parts).

Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations?

(8) Start to walk slowly.

Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?
Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all?
Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?
Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’?
Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?

(9) Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labelled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?

Love,
Kay

[Clashnacrona]

Hi Kay,
I just came off nights yesterday so I'm a bit tri na cheile (all over the place) and I have the girls for the weekend. I'll be looking at that exercise and I'll send a proper post by Monday at the latest. I had actually been practising the sensing my body quite a lot while in work the last few nights before you sent that post and seeing that it's all just sensations rather than a body as such.
I also do a lot of open water sea swimming and a few times over the last few swims I've closed my eyes as I'm swimming so there was just sound and sensation. It's a great way to get straight to the heart of experiencing but there was a bit of fear there as well. I'll be doing more of it. There is some distraction happening as well as I registered for an online dating thing so have been messaging men and women but that's ok I suppose my priority is on the LU work there rest is all just distraction.

Take Care

Ado

[forgetmenot]

Hello Ado,

Nice continual looking at the idea of the body. Keep it up.

There is some distraction happening as well as I registered for an online dating thing so have been messaging men and women but that's ok I suppose my priority is on the LU work there rest is all just distraction.

With all that is going on in your life and all the mixed emotions etc....is adding more to it, at this time a wise idea?

I look forward to your responses to the body exercise.

Kay

[Clashnacrona]

Hi Kay,
Just keeping you in the loop. I've been totally shattered the last few days and not been able for much bar resting. I have done the exercise but I'd like to do it a few more times before I post a response which I'll do either later today or tomorrow morning. Thanks for your patience.

Take Care

Ado

[Clashnacrona]

Hi Kay,

I have done the mirror exercise a few times now over the last few days and here are my responses to your questions.

Lovely yes! So the actual experience of the body is thought only. Thought points to sensation and labels it ‘body’, but can a body be found in sensation? Does the sensation itself suggest in any way that it is a body?

The AE of the body is only thought. There is only sensation and that sensation of course can’t suggest in any way that its a body. I must admit that the thoughts are coming in thick and fast trying to tell me that this is all rubbish ‘of course I have a body’ and so on. But as you say these are just thoughts and when they are not believed and seen to be pure imagination then there can’t be a body in AE. I always bring it back to the experience of an infant in that hasn’t been conditioned into believing it has a body and therefore has no body as far as it is concerned.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror?
Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is?

I did this exercise at least 3 times and each time I found it to be quite an unsettling disconcerting feeling. What was seen is that similar to the previous exercise with the hand is that the felt sensations and the visual image seem to run in parallel to each other. It was almost as if I was looking at an image of somebody's portrait in the mirror in front of me. When thought was ignored or not believed there was no connection between the image in the mirror and the felt sensations.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and image of movement in the mirror?

Again as above there was no connection between the sensations in the hand and the image of the hand moving in the mirror.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’?
Or only thoughts suggest it?

The connection between the felt sensation of the hand and the movement of the hand when directly observed were separate but it took a lot of concentration to keep the thoughts telling there was a connection to one side.

Does the image by itself suggest in any way that is ‘you’ or ‘your body’?
Does the image itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘body’ at all?
Or are there only colours and shapes?

I had to spend more time on this one but like the above responses it was as if I was looking at a portrait of someone else that wasn’t me. The image can’t and didn’t suggest it was a body or my body it was only thought that suggested that. Going completely on AE there were only colours and shapes. Thought was trying to come in a lot to throw me off but staying with AE of the image in the mirror, which is getting easier to do, there were only colours and shapes. There were some thoughts of like you’re putting on weight you could lose some weight etc etc… but they aren’t sticking as much as they usually would and again just observing them and watching them pass along.

Just by the image in the mirror, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest so?

There are just sensations without thought or mental images telling me otherwise. The main sensation was the soles of my feet on the bathroom floor.

Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations?

There was no body anywhere even when blurry images were noticed in my peripheral vision. When these images were ignored there were only sensations like slights aches and stiffness from a swim I’d done yesterday.

Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?

There are only sensations particularly in the soles of my feet hitting the floor and the stiffness in the legs and ignoring the labeling that thought was coming in with these were all just sensations full stop.

Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all?

There is just sensation as there is no body walking as such. It is just sensations happening.

Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?

There were just thoughts about walking.

Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’?

There are just thoughts about a body particularly when vision is focused straight ahead and not focusing on any body parts.

Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?

When thoughts are completely ignored it is obvious that there is just experiencing and nothing else. Thought will label it as walking or I’m walking or my body is moving but being in the actual experience of the moment there is just experiencing.

Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labelled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?

When thoughts and images are ignored there are only sensations without any location. It is almost like there is just sensating or experiencing and nothing else. There were lots of thoughts around resistance and labeling I’m walking and my feet are feeling the floor and the floor feels very solid and so on but when these are totally ignored and there are just sensations and experiencing or rather there is just experiencing.

Take Care

Ado