The Gate

Hi Nina,

This is helpful, thanks - thoughts do continue talking as if they are the self, and the seeing that this isn't true comes and goes so it's good to know this is normal. There is a feeling of melancholy happening quite a bit, but I'm just accepting it and know it will pass sooner or later.

Yes thoughts will continue to talk and talk about many things, but as you described earlier with your insight "it's all just thoughts". Yes let the melancholy happen, it will come and go :).

So is there any doubt then? You said you saw clearly that there was no me and it was all just thoughts. What about right now?

Hug,
Wesley

Hi Wesley,

So is there any doubt then? You said you saw clearly that there was no me and it was all just thoughts. What about right now?

I did see clearly, and although the thoughts keep churning away and it's not clear all the time there's no doubt. Right now I hear thoughts saying 'no you don't see it', but I look for a thinker and there's nothing there :-)
Hug,
Nina

Hi Nina,

I did see clearly, and although the thoughts keep churning away and it's not clear all the time there's no doubt. Right now I hear thoughts saying 'no you don't see it', but I look for a thinker and there's nothing there :-)

Ah that's great. What I have found, and especially through LU which I am so grateful for, is that the expectations as to what you will see or experience can often be the biggest obstacle. For instance, the thought "no you don't see it" is believed, and then from there you think you haven't seen what you need to. But of course nothing will appear or disappear or change necessarily, you will just see that there isn't a self here now AND there never was. Without the expectations of seeing something particular, it's self-evident in your experience. And it sounds like you're discovering that :).

"No I don't see it" ---> "okay, tell me again what am I supposed to see, and how do I know there is something to see?" then just really go to what you can trust 100%, what you really know, or as the phrase I so love "what's here whether you believe in it or not".

Nina, do you feel ready for the final questions again? Let me know where you are at, at this point feel free to just share what's happening for you in your experience.

Hug,
Wesley

Hi Wesley,
Once again the doubts came back, so I spent some time re-reading the whole thread from the beginning. Those pesky thoughts have put up a really good defence to being seen through, but it can be clearly seen now that they are behind the 'I' - it only exists as a thought. Thanks to your excellent guiding I have ways of looking and confirming what's really happening when the doubts arise.

Nina, do you feel ready for the final questions again? Let me know where you are at, at this point feel free to just share what's happening for you in your experience.

Yes please, ask away,
Big hug
Nina

Hi Nina,

In fact, I just realized perhaps it's not necessary to ask the final questions again as you already answered them.

Perhaps you could write a little about your experience rather. What do you see/what is clearer than before? What is your experience of I/me? How do you feel?

I will get back to you if we should ask the final questions again.

Big hug,
Wesley

Good evening Nina,

I'll put the final questions again :).
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Hug,
Wesley

Hi Wesley,

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No, there is no separate self anywhere and there never was.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The self is an illusion created by thoughts. Thoughts crop up and describe what's happening in personal terms and the illusion of a self is created. Sitting here there is just sensation, seeing, hearing etc with thinking weaving all of this into 'my' experience.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

Things are much the same; the lack of self has been clearly seen twice now, and following the seeing things feel lighter somehow and life is taken less seriously. Hopefully with time the thoughts will become less dominant and the clear seeing will become more of the default state. There's a slightly gloomy feeling arising here and there, but it could be due to Christmas - it usually upsets me.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

When you asked me whether there was a boundary between 'me' and thoughts - it somehow caught thinking off guard and it was clearly seen that thinking is all there is - no thinker at all.

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

Everything is interconnected, circumstances arise, choices are made and things happen. Thoughts occur which personalise decisions and events to make it seem like 'I' choose things but in reality stuff just happens.

6) Anything to add?

Thank you very much for guiding me, it's much appreciated. I would like to support LU by becoming a guide one day, but think there's a way to go before I'm ready :-)
Big hug
Nina

Hi Nina,

Thanks for your answers. Lovely to read.

I'll get back to you soon. Until than, Merry Christmas - I know you said you usually get down, so I'm just wishing you well whether it's to do with Christmas or not ;).

Wesley

Hi Wesley,
Thanks for the good wishes - I just get frustrated at Christmas due to the excessive consumerism and waste, but I'm lucky that I get to spend time with family so it's not all bad. Hoping you have a wonderful Christmas and new year,
Love
Nina

Hi Nina,

Thanks for the good wishes - I just get frustrated at Christmas due to the excessive consumerism and waste, but I'm lucky that I get to spend time with family so it's not all bad. Hoping you have a wonderful Christmas and new year,

Mmmm I can understand that...But yes good that you are able to spend it with family. Thank you.

Nina you're blue! You may have noticed your name changed from green to blue, and if you haven't already, you should receive a message soon about joining the facebook groups. You mentioned wanting to guide, and this is also where you can begin the process of becoming a guide (I believe, things have recently changed a bit). Either way, you will have access to the information you need. You said you may not feel ready right away, in which case I may recommend finding a mentor who will not only help you in guiding your first client but also can perhaps guide you further should you feel the need. Even after the illusion is seen through, there may be times or periods of doubt or intense emotions and personally I found the guidance after LU extremely helpful *as well as* becoming a guide myself. Someone told me once that brand new guides can actually be very good and offer a different perspective as you have just seen through the illusion yourself, you can say it's more fresh in a way. So I encourage you to follow your intuition and do what feels right for you, and know that you have a wonderful community of people, plenty of support, and any information you need.

I have just one thing to add before we wrap up. You said earlier

the lack of self has been clearly seen twice now,

There may have been two times in the past that it was clearly seen, but is this looking not available at all times? If you look right now, do you find a self, anywhere? That's it, it's that simple. Looking isn't something that takes effort, you can do it in a few seconds and confirm that no self is here, anywhere. If it seems like there is, just try looking at what is behind the doubt - you likely always find that it was just another passing thought.

Nina it's been a real pleasure guiding you, good for you for sticking with it :). Hope to see you on the facebook groups, and should you need anything you can always message me or contact me on the facebook groups.

Huge hug! Wishing you nice holidays with you and your family.

Wesley

Hi Wesley,
Thanks for this, yes I have received a message and will be joining the Facebook group, it will be good to be part of a community.

There may have been two times in the past that it was clearly seen, but is this looking not available at all times? If you look right now, do you find a self, anywhere? That's it, it's that simple. Looking isn't something that takes effort, you can do it in a few seconds and confirm that no self is here, anywhere. If it seems like there is, just try looking at what is behind the doubt - you likely always find that it was just another passing thought.

You're right, it can be seen when I look, but by default thoughts still imitate a self - it seems to get easier to see through this the more I look though. I understand that this is just a start :-)
Thanks again for your time and patience guiding me, it really is much appreciated - see you on FB,
Have a lovely holiday,
Huge hug back,
Nina x

Hi NIna,

It's been a pleasure :). See you on Facebook and Merry Christmas to you <3.

Wesley