Guide to truth

[bth]

Hi Carolyn,

Great.

collection of tendencies that appear to form a person

Just to be sure you are really looking, what do you refer to as collection and appear? Id say (just for this inquiry) its simply a thought (also collection, and appearing) but when looked at isnt found anywhere.

With this pointer, a big space opens. No beginning, no end, in space or time. No boundaries.

Nice, can you find yourself anywhere here?

Barry

[Prahathit]

Hi Barry,

Just to be sure you are really looking, what do you refer to as collection and appear? Id say (just for this inquiry) its simply a thought (also collection, and appearing) but when looked at isnt found anywhere.

To answer about "collection," I was looking at my dog. He made a movement that was familiar to me and I thought, "That is what I mean by collection. My dog does similar things through time." But when I looked closer, only memory, thought, was telling me that my dog has ever acted any particular way in the past. "Collection" is a construct built by thought. As for "appearance," I didn't get that far.


Nice, can you find yourself anywhere here? Actually, when I look, I don't find myself anywhere. When I look, I see emptiness. That there is a self called Carolyn is all assumptions.

Carolyn

[bth]

Hi Carolyn,

Yes, its simply all comes down to looking. Every time you think something "feels" true. You look and see for yourself untill its clear again. Is it there? Can it be found? If I fully experience this on a sensational level does the thought/sensation stick?

Is there such a thing as emptiness?

Barry

[Prahathit]

Hi Barry,
Last night I was in a sweat lodge. When the door was closed and it was very hot and totally dark and difficult to breathe and it was impossible to get out, I had a big flash of fear. I felt like I was going to die. Then I remembered our conversation about how emotions like fear are sensations plus thought labels. I also remembered my intention to feel everything, even the unpleasant sensations. So I said yes to the big fear. As soon as I did that the fear was gone and didn't return for the rest of the time in the sweat lodge.

Yes, its simply all comes down to looking. Every time you think something "feels" true. You look and see for yourself untill its clear again. Is it there? Can it be found? If I fully experience this on a sensational level does the thought/sensation stick? It seems like I answered these questions in the paragraph above, at least in terms of one instance.

Is there such a thing as emptiness? Emptiness is a thought label When I look for "emptiness" as an idea, it doesn't appear.
Carolyn

[bth]

Hi Carolyn,

Great, keep on doing that! And you will have the tools to take back your power.

What are the questions you now have? Still feel unclear, unsure about? And its oke to be so, than we will just continue longer.

Barry

[Prahathit]

Hi Barry

I feel that things are changing the past few days. It's hard to describe but it's like I can have "unpleasant" feelings like anxiety at the same time that I can feel very "empty" and "good." All day today I was at an anti-Trump demonstration and I was worried about several things, and yet those things didn't matter since I also felt very silent inside. The sensations and thoughts and labeling could go on and it didn't matter. At the end of the demonstration, I got a migraine headache, but that didn't matter either.
It actually occurred to me that I am losing (maybe have lost) that sense of self that I've been complaining to you about. When I look, I don't see it. Not in a logical way like when we began this conversation, but in the way of really not finding it. Today I experienced a little bit of conflict with the friend I was with, but I saw that that didn't mean there was a self experiencing conflict, and whatever feelings came along went away quickly. Being reactive to events didn't seem to matter.

I would love to keep working with you, if you are willing. I may not have specific questions, but would welcome you asking some. Your support has been so wonderful.
Carolyn

[bth]

Hi Carolyn,

Oke great. I notice your writing is become slightly different too. Not to much searching with thinking, but more experiencing, and looking!

Being reactive

What is being reactive? Or is this also a learned belief?

Further, you could still express the things you want to say! But thats more a way you want to integrate this in you day to day life. I like to live more out loud but that just my futile belief.

And:

What is self for you now?

Grtz,

Barry

[Prahathit]

Hi Barry
What is being reactive? Or is this also a learned belief?
Being reactive would have to be a learned belief if there is no self to react.


What is self for you now?
I don't see/experience a self. I don't have a sense of self, that familiar "me-ness" that used to be there. This is subtle. Not big fireworks.

Carolyn

[bth]

Hi Carolyn,

if there is no self to react

You say if there is no self to react. Why if? :). There is no self to react. I is simply a thought. A belief is a thought. Being reactive is a thought. Thoughts are there, but when looked at its just another dream/thought not to be seen in experience.

As a last exercise. Close your eyes:

Just think a lot of thoughts about Trump, see him in front of you, even shake his hand (that going to be a though one ;) ). Now sense all the sensations, even the smells, invite them untill you are getting more "silent" again.

Open your eyes:

Plz report:

Was any of that real? To be seen in the here and now?

Are you slowly getting ready for the final questions? What are the things that are still unclear?

Barry

[Prahathit]

Hi Barry
I made my meeting with Trump very detailed. B (yes touching him was tough!) But it was easy to see that it wasn't real.
What makes people know if they are ready for the final questions? How did you know?
Carolyn

[bth]

Hi Carolyn,

When you know that there is No I, that its simply a thought, and that there never was an I, never any search and that this was the joke. Is that crystal clear for you now? Since that is the scope of this inquiry.

Barry

[Prahathit]

Hi Barry
I would say that no-self is logically seen. It's also experientially seen-- a kind of space now. I cannot say that it is crystal clear. It's not that I have any further questions in particular. Just a need to look more.
Carolyn

[bth]

Hi Carolyn,

Lets get it more clear than :).

I cannot say that it is crystal clear

Can you find the I that need it to be crystal clear? What is crystal clear?

Barry

[Prahathit]

Hi Barry
I had a long and exhausting day. Too tired to consider the question of "crystal clear." I'll get back to you tomorrow.
Carolyn

[Prahathit]

Hi Barry,
I think the matter of "crystal clear" comes down to expectations.
Of course there are the big stories of people falling to the floor or sitting on park benches for years after seeing "no self." And in their BATGAP interview, Ilona and Elena talked about their lives becoming very different. Probably in their cases that would be after the "falling," though, right? And perhaps not instantaneous, right?
I guess I expect a click, a shift of some kind. I do see that there is no self inside and I experience a kind of space. I also do not experience much of that feeling of being Carolyn. Certainly not to the extent that I did when we began this conversation. Both of those things are huge, I know. And yet there's the feeling of things not being crystal clear because I can't point to a click, a shift that occurred in one moment in time.
Happy Holidays-- whatever you celebrate.
Carolyn