The Gate

Good morning David!

Dissociation is not a solution to anything.
On the contrary. Instead of trying to avoid or tu run aways of this sense of me. Focus on it.

I am with you in what you are saying. And perhaps my phrasing wasn't the best for what I tried to convey. In a simpler and more direct sense, I was trying to say that there are expectations that after awakening I will no longer identify with the body/mind or mistake myself for it.

//Tom

I am with you in what you are saying. And perhaps my phrasing wasn't the best for what I tried to convey. In a simpler and more direct sense, I was trying to say that there are expectations that after awakening I will no longer identify with the body/mind or mistake myself for it.

When there is absolutely no identification with body/mind there is no memory possible of anykind as there is no experience either. Such as deep sleep.

This belief that you are expressing is the belief that you can experience the absence of experience.
Which is impossible.

Good evening David!

When there is absolutely no identification with body/mind there is no memory possible of anykind as there is no experience either. Such as deep sleep.

So there will always be identification with the body/mind?

This belief that you are expressing is the belief that you can experience the absence of experience.
Which is impossible.

That sounds very impossible.

//Tom

When there is absolutely no identification with body/mind there is no memory possible of anykind as there is no experience either. Such as deep sleep.

So there will always be identification with the body/mind?

There NEVER identification really.

Do you agree that toughts come and go?
What is between two thougts?

Do you agree that sensation come and go?
What this between two sensations?

Do you agree that without awarness there is no experience of any kind?
As you saw that Tom is a collection of thoughts and sensation, Tom come and go.
What is there between two appearance of Tom?

This belief that you are expressing is the belief that you can experience the absence of experience.
Which is impossible.

That sounds very impossible.

Nevertheless this is the underlying beleif in this answer taht you gave:
"... I was trying to say that there are expectations that after awakening I will no longer identify with the body/mind or mistake myself for it."
The "I" that want to stop identify with mind/body IS the very ESSENCE of the separate self.
Because it is a reflection that it is something and it has to become something else.

In clarity it is seen that the activity of thinking, sensing and percieving appear and dissapear.
Is this appeariing and dissapearing happening to Tom or is this Tom appearing and dissapearing?

If I say this in another way:
Is this appearing and dissapearing happening to a individual or is this individual appearing and dissapearing?

Good morning David!

Do you agree that toughts come and go?

Yes.

What is between two thougts?

The absence of thoughts.

Do you agree that sensation come and go?

Yes.

What this between two sensations?

The absence of sensations.

Do you agree that without awarness there is no experience of any kind?

Yeah, I can´t argue with that.

What is there between two appearance of Tom?

The absence of Tom, along with the sensual experience.

Is this appeariing and dissapearing happening to Tom or is this Tom appearing and dissapearing?
Is this appearing and dissapearing happening to a individual or is this individual appearing and dissapearing?

It seems like Tom or the individual is coming and going.

//Tom

What is between two thougts?

The absence of thoughts.

So what is

What this between two sensations?

The absence of sensations.

Is this appeariing and dissapearing happening to Tom or is this Tom appearing and dissapearing?
Is this appearing and dissapearing happening to a individual or is this individual appearing and dissapearing?

It seems like Tom or the individual is coming and going.

As you see that thoughts, sensation and Tom is coming and going.
Try to focus on your direct experience onto what is the medium into which those phenomena arrise and vanish.
Is this "medium" a person, an entitiy, a "thing"?

Good morning David!

Try to focus on your direct experience onto what is the medium into which those phenomena arrise and vanish.

Am I supposed to focus on the space?

//Tom

Try this:
Word “I”

Let’s look at thought and the content of thought a little more,

Write the word "I" on a piece of paper. Look at the word, is that YOU?

Speak the word “I” silently; be aware of any sensations or responses to this word. Are any of these reactions in your body or mind by themselves YOU?

Now say the word “I” aloud. Is that sound YOU?

Is the combination of any of these, the word, the sound, the thought YOU?”

Is the thought, "I exist" you?

Is the thought "I" you?

Good morning David!

Write the word "I" on a piece of paper. Look at the word, is that YOU?

At first I couldn't tell if it was me or not. Or rather, I couldn't for certain say it wasn't me. Then I noticed that it was the awareness of the word that was behind this uncertainty, in the sense that since I am aware of it I am part of it (or rather: it is part of me.)
The word "I" that I wrote on the paper is not the totality of me, but the sense that it is part of me lingers.

Speak the word “I” silently; be aware of any sensations or responses to this word. Are any of these reactions in your body or mind by themselves YOU?

Some tightness in the chest was experienced as I said the word I. The sensation itself is not me.

Now say the word “I” aloud. Is that sound YOU?

The sound is not me.

Is the combination of any of these, the word, the sound, the thought YOU?”

No, it seems impossible to combine them into a state where they are combined into something that is merged.

Is the thought, "I exist" you?

No, the thought is just hearing/seeing appearing in the mental field.

Is the thought "I" you?

Same here, it is just hearing/seeing appearing in the mental field, along with an intellectual concept.

Try to focus on your direct experience onto what is the medium into which those phenomena arrise and vanish.

Am I supposed to focus on the space?

I think I understand. In other words you are asking: "What are thoughts/sensation/Tom made of?"

//Tom

I think I understand. In other words you are asking: "What are thoughts/sensation/Tom made of?"

Exactly!

So?

What are thoughts/sensation/Tom made of?

Good evening David!

What are thoughts/sensation/Tom made of?

I'm keeping looking into it but the answer has not dawned on me yet.

//Tom

Ok, let me know what happen next ^^

Ok, let me know what happen next ^^

Sure! =)

Can you be aware of anything outside of your direct experience?

Your experience is the essence of sensation, perception and thought.

The entity that sees is always assume, supposed but NEVER experienced.

What is the quality of "the thing" (that is not a thing) which is aware of experience?

Good evening David!

Ok, let me know what happen next ^^

I noticed that I was looking with the expectation that something is going to happen/something will be realized. Nothing hasn't really been realized though.
All that's been happening is awareness of experience.

Can you be aware of anything outside of your direct experience?

No. If I am aware of it, it is my direct experience.

Your experience is the essence of sensation, perception and thought.
The entity that sees is always assume, supposed but NEVER experienced.
What is the quality of "the thing" (that is not a thing) which is aware of experience?

It seems to be still and silent. I don't know what more I can say.

//Tom