The Gate

Oof when I zoom out, it does feel like me having an experience of the impersonal. This process can be so disheartening.

There can be a part that is constantly monitoring to see if things are going well. If possible, you can try relaxing that, because there's no need to check.

Also in inquiry we keep focusing more and more, so it's good that we're finding these things, and that you're honest.

So this me that is having an experience, what is it in direct experience?

And to clarify, direct experience is everything that can be seen, heard, touched, tasted, and smelled.

Aliveness and experience explained in terms of direct experience?
I’m not sure. I wouldn’t know how to explain those sensations without using other descriptive words that are also not it. I wouldn’t be able to describe it. I’m sorry

You don't have to explain the sensations, just say what is happening in direct experience.

For example, are the sensations in a certain place? What are they doing? Is there an image?

👍

There can be a part that is constantly monitoring to see if things are going well. If possible, you can try relaxing that, because there's no need to check.

That is exactly it. There seems to be a part that is monitoring or recording experience so that I can accurately report it back. There also seems to be a part that is the director- making sure that the directions are followed precisely and that the activity is being done correctly. It is very subtle! Thank you for pointing this out!

So this me that is having an experience, what is it in direct experience?

It is not seen, it is not heard, it can not touch or be touched, it can not smell nor be smelled. I feel that if it can not be found in direct experience, then it is a sneaky thought. The me feels like it is the one looking for itself in direct experience. But how can a thought look? A thought thinks. This feels incredibly confusing at the moment. Lol

You don't have to explain the sensations, just say what is happening in direct experience.

Aliveness feels like a buzzing in the torso, there is an image in the mind of the body sitting, a focus on the sensations in the body

It is not seen, it is not heard, it can not touch or be touched, it can not smell nor be smelled. I feel that if it can not be found in direct experience, then it is a sneaky thought. The me feels like it is the one looking for itself in direct experience.

Focus in on the thought that the self claims to be and ask: Is this thought the self?

If it is an image or words, explore: Is this image/words/phrase the self?

Keep looking like this on the specific sensation/sound/thought that claims to be the self.

But how can a thought look? A thought thinks. This feels incredibly confusing at the moment. Lol

Yes, confusion is part of the process :)

Does a thought think?

Do you see one thought think another thought?

Aliveness feels like a buzzing in the torso, there is an image in the mind of the body sitting, a focus on the sensations in the body

Buzzing is still not entirely in direct experience, can you see if you can get to what it is underneath the label buzzing?

The rest are great though (image, sensations and body).

Focus in on the thought that the self claims to be and ask: Is this thought the self?

If it is an image or words, explore: Is this image/words/phrase the self?

Keep looking like this on the specific sensation/sound/thought that claims to be the self.

This is a gem of a practice. I really feel something waking up on this one. Is this thought the self? And then the thought fades, but “I” do not disappear. I feel like that is an answer to that question. I am going to continue questioning thoughts, sensations, sounds “is this the self?”.

Does a thought think?

Do you see one thought think another thought?

Nope, a thought doesn’t think. A thought is just a thought. It is also not aware of other thoughts nor can produce another thought. One thought seems to disappear and then a completely unrelated thought appears. A thought is more of a noun than a verb… says a thought 🤣. How could a me be made of something so temporary and unpredictable? The illusion of a self is getting less believable… but who is believing in it? Is this belief the self? I will look into it

Buzzing is still not entirely in direct experience, can you see if you can get to what it is underneath the label buzzing?

Maybe just as simple as there are sensations felt in the torso and the head.

I do wonder- is there a difference between fetter 1 self and fetter 8 self?

This is a gem of a practice. I really feel something waking up on this one. Is this thought the self? And then the thought fades, but “I” do not disappear. I feel like that is an answer to that question. I am going to continue questioning thoughts, sensations, sounds “is this the self?”.

If there's an 'I' that doesn't disappear, you do the same process there.

What is that 'I'? (image, sensation, sound, etc)

If a thought says "It is ever-present, always here," that is a thought with maybe sensations. So you keep going.

Maybe just as simple as there are sensations felt in the torso and the head.

Yup :)

I do wonder- is there a difference between fetter 1 self and fetter 8 self?

I don't have experience with fetter 8 yet. I've found it best to not read ahead too much, so things are fresh when you get there yourself.

If there's an 'I' that doesn't disappear, you do the same process there.

What is that 'I'? (image, sensation, sound, etc)

If a thought says "It is ever-present, always here," that is a thought with maybe sensations. So you keep going.

I am following. Will continue to explore this and try to stick to direct experience.

I don't have experience with fetter 8 yet. I've found it best to not read ahead too much, so things are fresh when you get there yourself.

You’re right - no reason to get ahead my myself. Just conceptualizing the “I” a bit too much.

I’ll just keep inquiring into this “me” sense.

I have been inquiring into the “me”. Then things get hectic or stressful the old patterns return and it’s almost like the clarity disappears and I forget that peace is possible. This is heartbreaking.
Is this something that can be controlled? Does the “me” need to remain hyper vigilant until something breaks or is revealed? I don’t know where to turn, but I am tired of this back and forth. It doesn’t have to be like this

I have been inquiring into the “me”. Then things get hectic or stressful the old patterns return and it’s almost like the clarity disappears and I forget that peace is possible. This is heartbreaking.
Is this something that can be controlled? Does the “me” need to remain hyper vigilant until something breaks or is revealed? I don’t know where to turn, but I am tired of this back and forth. It doesn’t have to be like this

I hear you. This can be a tough journey!

Let the old patterns return. We don't want to suppress anything. This journey will unfold naturally, so there's no need to control or push away anything. Part of the heartbreak may be that you're in a hurry.

We are only inquiring into the self-illusion now. After that is usually emotional reactivity, so this happens layer by layer, in its own time.

For the self-illusion, you don't have to be vigilant all the time. Instead, take 2-4 times per day, and for 10-15 minutes, look for the sense of self and what it is doing.

If you want, you could share an inquiry so I can see what you're doing?

You would share everything you do, even getting distracted, which happens to everyone.

For example, it might look like this: I sit down. I feel like I am doing the inquiry, so there's a sense of self. It feels like sensations in the head. I look at those sensations and ask: Is this sensation the self? Then I get distracted by how I'm doing. I then return to the sensations, but the sensations aren't the self. Now there's an image of the head, so I ask: Is that image the self?

Let me know if you have any questions. 👍

I would love to walk through an inquiry and share it with you. I’m not sure what happened to your response suggesting that, though?
That’s happened a few times lately where I have responded to you, and when I come back to the forum, my response isn’t there.
I saw your response last night, came back this morning and it’s gone 🤷‍♀️

Once I posted, your response showed up again. Strange.
I have something with my kids until 2, I will sit for inquiry “with you” once we are home.

Once I posted, your response showed up again. Strange.
I have something with my kids until 2, I will sit for inquiry “with you” once we are home.

There have been some technical issues on the forum. I suggest that you write all replies in a document on your phone or computer before posting. Then copy and paste it here. That way you don't lose anything.

Just now when I came to the forum I didn't see your latest reply until I refreshed. Technical goblins! 😈

Technical goblins, indeed 😂

You would share everything you do, even getting distracted, which happens to everyone.

For example, it might look like this: I sit down. I feel like I am doing the inquiry, so there's a sense of self. It feels like sensations in the head. I look at those sensations and ask: Is this sensation the self? Then I get distracted by how I'm doing. I then return to the sensations, but the sensations aren't the self. Now there's an image of the head, so I ask: Is that image the self?

I sit down with the intention of doing inquiry. This does feel like I am deciding and making effort to focus on a specific activity.
“Where is the person deciding to do inquiry?”
There is an internal looking, first into the belly, then the breath catches my attention. I sit with the breath. Then the sensation of my hands holding my phone. There is an image of my hands holding my phone in my mind.
“Is this sensation in my hands “me”?”
Attention stays on the hands
Then there are monitoring thoughts “stay focused”, “this whole process seems mind created.”
“Is that thought “me”?”
Whoop then the mind explains why “that thought can’t be me because a thought is just a thought, the me doesn’t come and go.”
“Is that thought me?”
There is a sense of looking back at the thoughts
Then a tightness in the solar plexus area, then a sensation of tightness in the chest and shortness of breath.
“Is this sensation me?”
Those sensations dissipate
A low-level chatter arises in the mind. No discernible words, just like a hum of words in a room full of people.
Tightness in the gut arises and the mind labels “agitation”.
“Why can’t the mind shut the hell up even for a few minutes?”

Now I get distracted with all kinds of things that I want to figure out. It feels like the one looking is also a thought and that this whole process of inquiry is just a game of mind. It’s all candy for the mind because it is directing the attention- like it IS the attention. It is the mind that wants to find something, so it is looking for answers.

Thanks for sharing your process. Your inquiry is good :)

Things can feel very distracting as you begin to really focus on what the self actually is, so getting distracted is to be expected. Simply bring yourself back to the inquiry when you notice that you're off-track.

Also it's good to keep each inquiry session to 10-15 minutes so you can stay focused.

“Is that thought “me”?”
Whoop then the mind explains why “that thought can’t be me because a thought is just a thought, the me doesn’t come and go.”

Explore each claim. So to take the above as an example, if the me doesn't come and go, what is it?

Is it a sensation, image/thought, sound, smell, or taste that is always here?

Now I get distracted with all kinds of things that I want to figure out. It feels like the one looking is also a thought and that this whole process of inquiry is just a game of mind. It’s all candy for the mind because it is directing the attention- like it IS the attention. It is the mind that wants to find something, so it is looking for answers.

When things get conceptual like this, you simply look for whatever is in control. In this case, it would be the mind.

So you would look, where is the mind? What is it? And how does it direct attention?

Hope this helps! :)

Explore each claim. So to take the above as an example, if the me doesn't come and go, what is it?

Is it a sensation, image/thought, sound, smell, or taste that is always here?

Yes, I see now that “the me” is just a concept and these kinds of statements “the real me doesn’t come and go” are regurgitated from things that I have heard. The truth is I don’t know what a “me” is. But, I will look more closely using this guidance of looking in direct experience.

When things get conceptual like this, you simply look for whatever is in control. In this case, it would be the mind.

So you would look, where is the mind? What is it? And how does it direct attention?

This sounds like a very useful contemplation! Thank you!

I am doing another online silent retreat today through Sunday. I will use these suggestions in my inquiry practice!
Thank you so much, Henri ♥️