Seeking a guide please

[filtah]

Hi Mark,
good you are still looking.

No, I see that I guess. Nothing I do is counter to the conditions that lead up to it. In that sense, there is nothing here that is acting autonomously.

Good you can see that.

So what about this 'self' then?
What is it, really?


Here is another pointer:


Sports Exercise
The following link is a 7 minute clip of a soccer game:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy5pL-myDzw

1. Watch one minute with the sound turned OFF, watching ‘people’ messing about with a round thing on a field, up and down, up and down. Let it sink in, the whole experience.

2. Once the first minute is completed, now watch another whole minute with the commentary turned ON.
Notice the differences. Notice how the commentator (thought) offers lots of know-how, even advice. It seems to feel as though they can influence, somehow, what is going on, as though one outcome is much preferred to the opposite outcome. The commentary may seem to heighten any supporter feelings which are there, and call for an identification with one team or other, and with the importance of the game itself.

3. Now turn the volume OFF AGAIN and just watch the action with NO audible commentary, the shapes moving around on the screen etc. Again notice all the differences in what is appearing as experience.

4. Now turn the volume ON again and ignore what you think you know thought is talking about, and just notice it as sound.

What did you find when doing this exercise?
Is the commentary on the soccer game a necessity for the play to happen?
And in the same way, is the inner narration of thought a necessity for the play of life to happen?

[mark43]

So what about this 'self' then?
What is it, really?

Yes, hmmm. I suppose what remains is simply a sense or thought of looking out at experience.

I’ve been meaning to ask, lately it’s felt as though everything I feel physically is not me. I think I fixate on physical emotions quite a bit as I’ve been on guard for anxiety, panic, dread, etc for many years. I now feel like these sensations exist, but there must be a thought happening somewhere that they are happening to me that turns the feeling into suffering.

Ie - last night I was doing the buttchair exercise and the sensations I was observing were no different than seeing a bird flying in the sky. They were not happening inside a me. They were simply something that could be observed. But the sensations definitely didn’t/don’t feel like they’re mine, just like the bird in the sky.

What’s interesting here is that I used to use this way of looking to solidify a kind of observer identity. Ie - I am not the suffering, I am the one aware of the suffering. This still feels right, ie - the sensations are not me or mine, but now I’m starting to question that observer identify. Ie - if they’re not me or mine, maybe that’s not because I am the just observer. Maybe it’s because I do not exist to begin with.

Anyways, thanks for the new pointer. I’ll give it a go.

[mark43]

Hi there. Is there something I can do to get re-added back to the pool? I’m still have a strong sense of self that I just can’t seem to see through despite not being able to find the self. Thanks.

[Lubo]

Hi Mark,

My name is Lubo.
I can join you, if you are OK?

I’m still have a strong sense of self that I just can’t seem to see through despite not being able to find the self. Thanks.

I hear you. You are not alone.
Let's walk together,
you and me,
step by step.

I will show what is here and your job is to see what I am showing you.

Look around , notice this beauty called visual field.

Notice the beautiful colours , forms, beautiful men and women, birds, tree, sky...- Welcome to the Garden of Eden

Notice the body, we believe we are, is also in the visual field?

Now notice that face, body, thoughts, story about you, cannot describe you?

You are not persona, we just imagine what we are, right?

Something like, What/Who am I?
The name - are you name? it can be different does it can describe you?

Story I am born, I live, my job - it can be different but can describe you?
Body - baby, boy, man...notice that the body cannot describe you?
Simply look are you, persona, a me, name?
No need to become something just to sober from "I know what I am".
it is easy right?
And notice the obvious answer What you are?
Something like " I clearly see that I dont know"
How do yo feel to find that?

Love to you,
Lubo

Love,
Lubo

[mark43]

Hi Lubo nice to meet you :)

Notice the body, we believe we are, is also in the visual field?

Yes I notice this often. I guess I feel like part of me still thinks I’m behind my eyes so it makes sense for the body to be in the visual field.

You are not persona, we just imagine what we are, right?

Yes I suppose.

The name - are you name? it can be different does it can describe you?

No I am not my name. This is clear.

Story I am born, I live, my job - it can be different but can describe you?

No, I am not the story of Mark.

Body - baby, boy, man...notice that the body cannot describe you?

Yes I notice that, but I feel like I am in the body. Ie when I point to “myself” I point to my body. Part of me feels inside the body.

And notice the obvious answer What you are?
Something like " I clearly see that I dont know" How do yo feel to find that?

I feel nothing to be honest. Yes, when I practice self inquiry, which I do regularly, I cannot find who or what I am. But that hasn’t removed the sense of a self. I feel very stuck, like no matter how much I look or answer questions like yours, nothing really pushes me over the edge so-to-speak. Intellectually, I see no self. But it’s like part of me inside isn’t convinced.

Thanks

[Lubo]

Hi Mark,
Nice to meet you to :)

But it’s like part of me inside isn’t convinced.

Yes. Meet this part.
What this part is made of?

Love to you,
Lubo

[mark43]

Yes. Meet this part.
What this part is made of?

I’m not sure I can tune into that part specifically. I sense that when I think of myself, there is focus on the physical sensations of my body. Ie - the feeling of being surrounded by the body.

If thought is all this is, then how do I see that this thought is untrue? I am aware that most of my thoughts are untrue and that I don’t have to believe them, but this feels like one of those thoughts that are true.

[Lubo]

Thoughts and beliefe what you are, that there is a "me" is pure lie.
So, when you are aware of that can you believe that you are persona?
Do you need thoughts to tell you that there is no "agent running the show" here?
or it is obvious? LoL :)

Love,
Lubo

[mark43]

Thoughts and beliefe what you are, that there is a "me" is pure lie.

I don't share this conviction...yet.

So, when you are aware of that can you believe that you are persona?
Do you need thoughts to tell you that there is no "agent running the show" here?

I don't find a me, but I don't view the belief of a me as a "pure lie". How can I get there?

[Lubo]

I don't find a me, but I don't view the belief of a me as a "pure lie". How can I get there?

me- thoughts unconsciously connected with the image of particular face and body?
And notice that all this is known?

Notice the imagined connection between thoughts and face?