There is nothing

[CrystalBeach]

Hi Dion,

In sitting with and looking here is the experience.

The seer isn't found it, thoughts appear, and it feels sometimes like this is a seer, but really it's just seeing and thoughts and labels.
The Seen - at first this was interperted as - objects that are seen, the table etc, then it appeared as what is thought to be the self, but a self isn't found, just thoughts and sensations.
Seeing - seeing is happening and real

Jana

[Dion]

Hi Jana :)

Nice.

Soon, I'll give you some final questions.
Before I do, is there anything unclear? Anything that feels like a sticking point?

Dion

[CrystalBeach]

Hi Dion,

I don't see any sticking points. Perhaps reading throught the questions would illuminate more.

Thank you so much!
Jana

[Dion]

Hi Jana :)

Answer these questions in your own time and in your own words, based only on what you see.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the last few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

[CrystalBeach]

Hi Dion,

Answer these questions in your own time and in your own words, based only on what you see.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

No there is not and there never was

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now.

A baby is born and as the baby grows the parent starts pointing to objects and providing labels and language. The parent may dress the baby in clothes related to gender and tells the child, this is what girls do and the child responds. The child absorbs the conditioning and believes the stories and labels. I'm not sure when this actually starts. There is a memory of looking in the mirror as a young child, nose to the mirror asking what is this ? What is in there? Like a knowing that nothing really existed. It seems that little child had that sense and knew it but also needed to navigate the world.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the last few days.

There is a feeling of being unhooked from the thoughts and stories, they just don't seem personal, the thoughts and sensations come up, there is nothing to control any of it, that all feels like a relief. Before the dialogue it all felt so personal and that someone had control.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

It seems like a bunch of tiny shifts. One day it was so clear that the body was walking the dog, and everything was a little different but the same. Walking the dog was just happening, it happened without decision or thought and planning. Then it was noticed that everything was like that, just happening. Life was going without any "interference" so to speak, without a grip. It goes on with a grip, without the tight grip it just feels a little lighter.

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

Decision - thoughts may arise about an upcoming decision, but then there is just "decision", the brain may ponder pro's and con's and then an action is taken or maybe no action.
Intention, there was an intention (a thought) about answering the questions before bed. It was just a thought and then that thought turned to dinner. Then there was sitting down and typing a bit later. Intention is a thought that arises, nothing more.
Free will, choice - if someone asks vanilla or chocolate, the answer would be chocolate. But it's not from some free will that chocolate is chosen. It could be conditioning that my dad would buy a hershey bar for me as a treat, or maybe the taste buds have some preference or maybe some chemicals are released in the brain that make the body feel good. It's not a decision or choice by some thing in control, but chocolate is just picked. It's the same with so called big decisions, there is not a chooser or controller.
Responsibility - I'm not responsible for anything, choices happen, decisions. It's not clear how it all works, it all just works or happens.

6) Anything to add?

Thank you, Dion for your consistent pointing and guiding.

Jana

[Dion]

Hi Jana :)

That's lovely to read. Thank you ;)

If you don't mind, I'll send this thread to the administrators to get a consensus that you've "passed through the gate", so to speak.
Is that ok?

[CrystalBeach]

Hi Dion,

Yes it's fine.
Thank you again
Jana