The Gate

Hi Claudio,

With the word ‘shift’ I am referring to this effectiveness of the ‘looking sessions’.

But the shift is not simply about the effectiveness of looking. But rather a shift in perception.

A shift in a perception when the self is seen that the body is empty of a self.
A shift in perception with a seeing that there is no separate self at all in reality. No agent that is in charge, no manager, no watcher, no owner of life; all there is is life flowing freely as one movement.

What happens when you read the above sentence? How do you FEEL as you read the above?

Is this how it is for you? Or is this just an understanding, but not lived reality (in your everyday life)?

Due to looking the absence of an entity, a self, was seen clearly, and all of the surrounding thoughts were seen for what they are: thoughts, not an actual self.

But you are talking about past tense. So you SAW something.

But what do you SEE NOW?

What is the experience NOW in this very moment? And now? And what about now?

What is happening when you are not looking? When you are not looking does it seems like that ‘I am thinking, I am deciding, I am feeling, etc.’?

There are different types of sensations. It seems a period of adjustment, there are some thoughts about the meaning of life, but they are old conditionings, old beliefs cracking. There is no narration about Claudio anymore, no character to protect, no story to write everyday, no inner ego that take offence. During a conversation there is not “my precious opinion on this thing”, there is more listening, less competition. Apart from that, things are always the same, nobody owns them.

This is good, but the question wasn’t about sensations, but about how it FEELS to see that there is no central commander, a central doer, a central decider?

Vivien

Hi Vivien,

What happens when you read the above sentence? How do you FEEL as you read the above?

Is this how it is for you? Or is this just an understanding, but not lived reality (in your everyday life)?
D

yes, life is flowing freely as one movement. This is the shift in perception, and that shift happened the moment the looking became effective. This is what I intended. :)
That was just an intellectual understanding, but then became a "lived reality".

But you are talking about past tense. So you SAW something.
But what do you SEE NOW?

Yes, the moment the shift happened is in the past, but every time there is looking now, in this very moment, same things are seen.

What is the experience NOW in this very moment? And now? And what about now?
What is happening when you are not looking? When you are not looking does it seems like that ‘I am thinking, I am deciding, I am feeling, etc.’?

Now there is no control, no desire for it. Things flow in full-auto mode. Sometimes there is a thought, which says "I am thinking, I am doing..", but as I said yesterday it's not sticky anymore. It's immediately seen for what it is, a story.

This is good, but the question wasn’t about sensations, but about how it FEELS to see that there is no central commander, a central doer, a central decider?

Some worried thoughts arise sometimes, like "Without a driver this car is going to crash against a wall and we will die." :) Jokes aside, nothing changed (because everything was already like that). It feels simpler, less heavy than before. It feels....normal, real. Now it's not about thoughts directing everything, telling stories and creating characters, now it's about experiencing reality.

Hi Claudio,

Jokes aside, nothing changed (because everything was already like that).

Yes, nothing really changed, yet something very important have changed (if it indeed changed).
Seeing that there is no real Claudio, that there is no real person having life is a huge discovery. Yet, you are talking as if it were just an insignificant recognition.

Are you saying that you have no emotional reaction to seeing that what you believed yourself to be in your whole life is just a figment of imagination?

Vivien

Hi Vivien,
I am not saying this is an insignificant recognition, I was just putting aside sensations and emotions. There were a lot of emotions, but they happened maybe more at the beginning of this inquiry, when there was the intellectual recognition. Then, every time there was a glimpse on the truth a lot of emotions arose. Now a lot of those emotions are fading away. There was anger and resentment at first, then relief, joy. Nasty and intense emotions.
The normality I mentioned in the last message was not pointing to the importance of the recognition, but it is the taste of this ‘new reality’, the actual reality, the reality under thoughts and stories. The actual reality is tasting more normal then the Me reality.

Hi Claudio,

Then, every time there was a glimpse on the truth a lot of emotions arose. Now a lot of those emotions are fading away. There was anger and resentment at first, then relief, joy. Nasty and intense emotions.

I hear you. But I’m not simply asking about emotions that has already been ‘inside you’ (the usual emotions you have or have been supressed) and they came just up during the inquiry.

I’m asking how it feels to see that there is no self. Since it would be quite strange to say that it doesn’t feel any particular way. Imagine discovering that something so fundamental as learning that you were actually born on Mars. Wouldn’t you have a response of surprise, delight, or horror, or even a "wow, that's weird"? Can you imagine not having any emotional response by discovering it?

And I’m not hearing from your replies that you have an emotional reaction to the discovery that who you believed yourself to be in your whole life is just a fiction of imagination. It’s not really possible to deeply, really deeply recognize that there is no self-directed, autonomous, separate self without and not feel something as a consequence. If this is the case, then the self is not seen through fully.

Vivien

Hi Vivien,
I just realised my reply is lost. -_-
Yesterday I wrote as usual but something went wrong with the server, I guess... and today my answer is disappeared.
I need to re-reply.

Yes, unfortunately there has been some issue with the website. It's working on and off. But admins are working on to fix it.

Hi Vivien,
Finally I should be able to post my reply.
I get the point, you’re right, but how can I explain the intensity of these emotions? Yes, sometimes (now and in the past also) seeing no self is like a trauma, an inverse trauma. It triggers panic, fear. But then, when all happening phenomena are seen in the present moment, contemplating that impersonal, automatic ‘lif-ing’, something different arises: wonder, a sense of ‘freshness’, curiosity, enthusiasm. At the same time there is this familiar feeling, life without me is something ‘new’ but normal. It seems normal, it’s hard to explain. There is this ‘I’m blown away’ emotion, awe, in front of a reality seen as it is. Truth is scary and beautiful.
Sorry Vivien, trying to explain that particular question is a hard thing. In Italian would be easier. :)

Hi Claudio,

I get the point, you’re right, but how can I explain the intensity of these emotions? Yes, sometimes (now and in the past also) seeing no self is like a trauma, an inverse trauma. It triggers panic, fear. But then, when all happening phenomena are seen in the present moment, contemplating that impersonal, automatic ‘lif-ing’, something different arises: wonder, a sense of ‘freshness’, curiosity, enthusiasm. At the same time there is this familiar feeling, life without me is something ‘new’ but normal. It seems normal, it’s hard to explain. There is this ‘I’m blown away’ emotion, awe, in front of a reality seen as it is. Truth is scary and beautiful.

Thank you for sharing this. This is what I was interested in.

Can you say with 100% certainty (without any doubt) that you have realised that there is no separate self as it is thought to be?

Is seeking still going on?

Is there anything that you need clarified...anything you are not clear about?

If there is anything that you are not totally clear about and would like to look at it, then now is the time for it.

Vivien

Hi Vivien,

Can you say with 100% certainty (without any doubt) that you have realised that there is no separate self as it is thought to be?

Yes, without any doubt.

Is seeking still going on?

No, it is not needed. :)

Is there anything that you need clarified...anything you are not clear about?

Everything is clear, thanks to this ‘path-less path’ and thanks to your care and dedication. Also re-read this entire investigation was (and is) very helpful. You were right, there are gems here. :)

Hi Claudio,

I’m very glad you’ve found our investigation helpful.

What we usually do at this state of the process is to ask some final questions that I will show to other guides to see if there is anything that we might have missed and that my guiding was clear. Other guides might or might not have further questions for you.

Are you ready for these final questions?

Vivien

Hi Vivien,
I’m ready. :)

Hi Claudio,

All right, here are the questions. There are some we might’ve talked about them before, but please reply to them as if it were the first time writing about them. Please pay particular attention to #3, to describe how it FEELS to see this.

Please answer the following questions with some detail please, and answer what's true for you rather than any sort of 'ideal' answer. Also please provide examples where asked.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

2) Share in your own words what the illusion of separate self is and how it shows up in experience. Also, through your inquiry, what is different now?

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.

b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

6) Anything to add?

Vivien

Hi Vivien,
sorry for the delay.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

No, there is no self in actual experience. The Me, the self is just an idea rooted in the belief system. There is no Me inside this body which receives life and does, choose, decides, etc.

2) Share in your own words what the illusion of separate self is and how it shows up in experience. Also, through your inquiry, what is different now?

The illusion of a separate self is the conventional belief that there is an entity separate from reality. That entity (a ME) starts developing itself during childhood and during its entire life. This identity is not present right after birth, it is seeded at a very young age and developed during life. 'We' are separate from reality, we interact with the world, we own senses, we own thoughts and emotions. We have a path, the path of life. During this path we have to develop our character, our personality, we have to learn, to improve. We address our lives with our choices, we are responsible for our actions, emotions, feelings, ideas and their consequences.
Through this inquiry, the self continues to pops up as usual, but now it is seen for what it is: a belief, nothing more than a thought.

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

It's liberating. Before this inquiry started, there were a lot of expectations. The self wanted to see that the self doesn't exist. It's been a very difficult process, thoughts worked to avoid looking. Then, the more this inquiry went deep the more the seeing was clear. Expectations dropped, looking became sharp, thoughts were seen for what they are. This inquiry became effective. Life now is seen for what it is: an immense happening of disjointed phenomena (experiences), without a center, a doer, a receiver, a separate entity. Thoughts triggered nasty emotions, there was anxiety, fear, but also excitement, curiosity, trust. Life doesn't happen TO ME anymore. Life unfolds naturally and seeing that triggers beautiful emotions now. The immense anxiety for a self development, expectations and dogmas dropped. There is no Me to improve, it never was here. It's liberating.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

Everything changed the moment "you" pushed "me" to investigate the experience of body. There was this feeling that I own the body, that I live as a body separate from everything else. Focusing on sensations was the last bit, it was very powerful. :)

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.

Nothing of those things really exist in actual experience. Everything happens on its own, there are not subjects or objects. Life is verbs, happenings, phenomena. There are no receiver or doer, there are no choice or free will (who has will? who has choice?) Without entities (selves) who does what? Who should decide, control and choose?
When 'we do something' there is just a bunch of beliefs going on. Reality is BEFORE decision, intention, free will, choice and control. All of them are beliefs, things are already going on by themselves, a director is not needed and it is fictional, it's an illusion.
A very simple example: "I am hungry, so I'm going to the bakery store to buy some food. After that I eat my food, I'm not hungry anymore, I'm satisfied."
What's happened here? There is the belief that Claudio is receiving the sensation of hunger. Claudio desires to eat, in consequence of that he decides to go to the store. He goes to the store, then he chooses what to eat, he eats his food and receives the sensation of satisfaction.
Now a very simple example like this is seen in a very different way. There is no Claudio who receives sensations, who decides, goes, walks, eats, is satisfied. All of these experiences are happening by themselves. There is hunger, there is searching for food, there is eating, there is satisfaction. None of that requires Claudio to happen. Reality is under this layer of beliefs (thoughts). These thoughts simply stick onto experiences, providing an illusion that now is clearly seen.

b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

As for free will, there is no Me who is responsible or not responsible. It's just impossible. Responsibility is a concept and it is fictional. Everything is already perfect and life is already functioning without the need for a Me who is responsible.

6) Anything to add?

Nothing to add!

Hi Claudio,

Thank you for your responses. I am going to ask other guides to have a look at the thread to ensure that I have covered everything and that my pointing has been clear. This may take a few days. Sometimes, not always, the other guides may have further questions which I will bring to you.

Vivien