Awakent

[Verananda]

Hi Abner

some of your questions, some of the time my
mind drifted. I know you said without thoughts or images...but that was not my experience.

Thats ok. It was just the invitation to stay with experience instead of engaging in thought ....

As for the " billions ", I took that from the 1st of 10 LU audios, on YOU TUBE.

ah , interesting. I didn't know that.
So it shows again: belief nothing. no LU audio, no guide, no guru, not your thought.
Look in your own experience :-)

nside or outside, thats a tough one...I could
feel my breathing and my heart beat "inside"
but ( I thought ) abstractly...they could be happening outside.

can you realy feel them inside (from pur expirience) without any concepts, even not the concept of inside/outside?
when you don't know anything about body, inside, outside, others, ..... and nothing about "former experiences", can you find "body, inside, outside" from pur experience/sensation?

The label body refers to the physical body,
which I "appear" to have.

IS the physical body something you experience right now / in the experiment?
do the sensation itself say anything about body / physical body?
could it be that the "physical body" is just a thought/concept and the pur experience is just "sensation"?

The ACTUAL experience of the body is aliveness.
The sensation only suggests thoughts of a body.

:-)
The ACTUAL experience is aliveness.
OR
The ACTUAL experience of the body is aliveness.
what is more true right from experience?

Maybe "aliveness" is just a thought!

when there are no thoughts is there no experience of aliveness?

It sure looks like something I experience, but I know (intelectually) it is only a thought.

The "the billion of others seperate me's" can you hear them, see them, sense them ....?
What is exactly the experience and how does this experience suggest these other me's?

I'm offline today, so stay some time with these questions.
you can do the exercise again but you can also question all this during "normal life"

Love Ve

[Abner]

Hi, Ve
I would like to back up and go over:
"EXPERIENCE vs. THOUGHT"

"can you realy feel them inside (from pur expirience) without any concepts, even not the concept of inside/outside?
Without any concepts I cant feel them inside or out.

when you don't know anything about body, inside, outside, others, ..... and nothing about "former experiences", can you find "body, inside, outside" from pur experience/sensation?

See above answer.

IS the physical body something you experience right now / in the experiment?
It feels that way

do the sensation itself say anything about body / physical body?
Again it feels that way.

could it be that the "physical body" is just a thought/concept and the pur experience is just "sensation"?
Yes.

The ACTUAL experience is aliveness.
OR
The ACTUAL experience of the body is aliveness.
what is more true right from experienc
The actual experience of the body is aliveness.

when there are no thoughts is there no experience of aliveness
I think you feel aliveness even without
thoughts...because you exist and are alive.

The "the billion of others seperate me's" can you hear them, see them, sense them ....?
I see some of them every day!! There are not
to many awakent people in the world and I certainly dont
come accross any in my social circles.

What is exactly the experience and how does this experience suggest these other me's
The experience is mundane.
And they...just are!

I can (as you can see) copy and paste but can
not highlight.

Be well...Ab

[Abner]

"Of this earthly world rather then a heavenly or spiritual one"...this is "one" dictionary definition of mundane.
This is what I meant. There is another of mundane...which I did not mean!

[Verananda]

Hi Abner

"can you realy feel them inside (from pur expirience) without any concepts, even not the concept of inside/outside?
Without any concepts I cant feel them inside or out.

when you don't know anything about body, inside, outside, others, ..... and nothing about "former experiences", can you find "body, inside, outside" from pur experience/sensation?

See above answer.

Can you please post the answer here even if it seems repeating for you?
I don't know what from above you mean?

IS the physical body something you experience right now / in the experiment?
It feels that way

do the sensation itself say anything about body / physical body?
Again it feels that way.

could it be that the "physical body" is just a thought/concept and the pur experience is just "sensation"?
Yes.

You say the "physical body" is just a thought/concept.
What do you mean with " it feels that way."?
What exactly is the experience " it feels that way."? Is it sensation, sound, image, taste, .....?

when there are no thoughts is there no experience of aliveness
I think you feel aliveness even without
thoughts...because you exist and are alive.

We don't look for what you think or mental explanation ("because")
What is you experience when you look right now?

ok, we go back to look what direct experience is,
Can you please tell me in your words what "direct experience" is ?

when you say

There are not
to many awakent people in the world and I certainly dont
come accross any in my social circles.

Is this direct experience right now or is it thought?

Love Ve

[Abner]

Hi, Ve
I think you did not see my answer corectly.
I said...I cant.

You say the "physical body" is just a thought/concept.
What do you mean with " it feels that way."?
What exactly is the experience " it feels that way."? Is it sensation, sound, image, taste, .....?
I wrote the wrong answer...My true feeling is
that, to me, the physical body seems real. Not
a thought/concept. The sensation appears
and the awareness of the sensation makes it feel real.

What is you experience when you look right now?
I feel "alive"...I feel my body living and my mind
thinking.

Can you please tell me in your words what "direct experience" is
Im not sure what "direct experience" is...thus
my request to reexamin...thought & experience.

Is direct experience right now or is it thought?
It is only thought in this moment.

Be well...Ab

[Verananda]

Hi Abner

I think you did not see my answer corectly.
I said...I cant.

Oh, yes I see, I read it several times but did not find your answer betwee my rows .....

The sensation appears

yes, exactly ....

and the awareness of the sensation makes it feel real.

and this is the point where the illusion happens ......

I wanted to point to this, but before we will look deeper we will check thought & experience / what direct experience is.

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you
can. Label daily activities simply colour/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.
So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:-
Seeing a cup, simply= image/colour
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought
Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual/direct
experience) and report back how you go.

So please do this several time and then send me one of your lists.

Love Ve

[Abner]

Hi, Ve

I will do the experiment starting tomorrow.
Can you explain what you mean by:
Color/Image

[Verananda]

Color/Image

it points to "what you see" ...
is the seen, the "raw seen" more than color/image?

[Abner]

Hi, Ve
I woke up this morning
Looked at clock...seeing...image/color
Wanted to stay in bed...thought
Saw surroundings...seeing...image/color
Got out of bed...?
Opened door...feeling/sensation
Walked to kitchen...?
Going to open draw...thought
Opened draw...feeling/sensation
Took out remote...feeling/sensation
Pressed remote...feeling/sensation
Gate opened...thought...seeing
Wanted juice...thought
Walked to refrig. ...?
Opened refrig...feeling/sensation
Looked at juice...thought
Took out juice...feeling/sensation
Saw cabinet...seeing...image/color
Opened cabinet...feeling/sensation
Took out glass...feeling/sensation
Poured juice...hearing
Drank juice...feeling/sensation/tasting
Wanted to have coffee...thought
Took out coffee...feeling/sensation
Get a cup...thought
Opened cabinet...feeling/sensation
Saw cup...seeing
Took out cup...feeling/sensation
Filled with water...feeling/sensation/hearing
Put in microwave set microwave temp, took out
...feeling/sensation/hearing.
Got spoon...feeling/sensation
Saw coffee...image/sensation
Opened coffee...feeling/sensation/hearing
Put coffee in cup...?
Stired coffee...hearing
Picked up coffee...feeling/sensation
Drank coffee...tasting

I know I left out some steps. It would take forever
to list every happenning.Be well...Ab

[Abner]

Saw coffee...seeing...image/color
Not image/sensation

[Verananda]

Hi Abner,

so have a closer took to your "?"

Got out of bed...?
Walked to kitchen...?
Walked to refrig. ...?
Put coffee in cup...?

I want you to check them again. My suggestion is, that is thought/label but by looking closer into experience you can notice some more direct experiences (maybe some in each of it), like looking with magnifying glasses into what realy happens ....

So do that again (Walk to kitchen, Walk to refrig. ...), watch like a hawk and tell me what you find ...

Love Ve

[Abner]

Hi, Ve

Got out of bed...?...thought/...?
Walked to kitchen...?...sensation...feeling...?
Walked to refrig. ...?...sensation...feeling...?
Put coffee in cup...?seeing...hearing...?

I still dont know: Thought vs Experience

Be well...Ab

[Verananda]

don't guess....

what can you see (colour/image), hear (sound), smell, taste, feel/sens (sensation)
= experiences
and what is thought (about)?

For example:
Walked to kitchen...?
Do it again and be aware of all the experiences and also thoughts appearing ...
Maybe then you find another list of experiences while walking to kitchen?
(put it here).
After doing that , what is "walking to kitchen" in your experience?
Is it an experience or a Label/thought about what happend or what you are doing?

Love Ve

[Abner]

what is thought (about)?
Its ideas and associations that the brain brings
forth
For example:
Walked to kitchen...?
The thought..."walking is happenning" or
"I am walking"
Feeling...The feet


After doing that , what is "walking to kitchen" in your experience?
Is it an experience or a Label/thought about what happend or what you are doing?
It feels like an experience and a thought
Be well...Ab

[Verananda]

It feels like an experience and a thought

lets be very exact here, it is realy the important part even if it may feel a bit "too precise" ....

what exactly is the experience of ""walking to kitchen"?