freedom

[jeffdilbeck]

It is ok if you think the life force that is created by the body and brain is 'me', and permanent. If you don't want to look at this, it is totally cool.

On another note:

Are you still vegan? I'm a chef and make mexican/fusion/vegan/veg food for a living. I never got a chance to tell you that.

:)

I'm here if you ever wanna look deeply. totally cool. Send me a message a year from now if you want. I don't mind.

[Norio]

I'm no longer concerned about this anymore. Ego is being surrendered.

Cool you are a chef of that sort. I don't know, I may have more to share later.

peace

[Norio]

How'd you know I was vegan?

Anyway,
I really want to understand this. I'm sure I've seen it, but I keep getting back to the bad habbit of selfiing. Maybe I need post-liberation help?

[jeffdilbeck]

You told me that you were several months ago, one day when you got upset that you had ruined a burrito with hummus.

Let's say you have already seen through the illusion of a separate self. Can you describe it to me?

[Norio]

OK, I'll describe it.........

Self......it is a thought. There is a self, but its not "mine". Selfhood itself is not self. selfhood itself is observed by nothing imparticular. Self-thoughts feel really close to the center of beingness and awareness. So its confused with the beingness and awareness. Self-thoughts have similar qualities to one another, but they are all separate thoughts. The similarity of the separate thoughts give a sense of continuity through time, of an abiding entity.

But here is what I don't understand. I understand how there coule be mistaken external essence, like a tree is mistaken for having an individuality to it thats not there. But I don't understand how any individuality could be identified with.

Thoughts are stuck now.

[Norio]

Thanks for nudging me to continue this broken process.

Another thought came up.
We tend to think of everything as objects. Everything that exists exists as some separate concrete type thing. So naturally we think that this subjective awareness must also be of the same nature, so we conceptualize this pure awareness that we are into another external object...
So I kind of get that, but I still feel something is not yet gotten fully. But it will be gotten.

[jeffdilbeck]

OK, I'll describe it.........

Self......it is a thought.

Yes

There is a self, but its not "mine".

When you say the word self, what are you referring to?

selfhood itself is observed by nothing imparticular.

There you go.

Self-thoughts feel really close to the center of beingness and awareness. So its confused with the beingness and awareness. Self-thoughts have similar qualities to one another, but they are all separate thoughts. The similarity of the separate thoughts give a sense of continuity through time, of an abiding entity.

That is very clear.

But here is what I don't understand.

(ah oh), but wait!

I understand how there could be mistaken external essence, like a tree is mistaken for having an individuality to it thats not there. But I don't understand how any individuality could be identified with.

Let me ask you this: How do you identify with your story?

Thanks for nudging me to continue this broken process.

No problem.

We tend to think of everything as objects. Everything that exists exists as some separate concrete type thing. So naturally we think that this subjective awareness must also be of the same nature, so we conceptualize this pure awareness that we are into another external object...

So maybe the truth is just what is going on, here and now? Nothing more. Is that what direct experience shows you? Or does it show you something different?

[Norio]

"Let me ask you this: How do you identify with your story?"
Hmm. Can't think an answer.

"So maybe the truth is just what is going on, here and now? Nothing more. Is that what direct experience shows you? Or does it show you something different?"
Yeah. As you say.

[jeffdilbeck]

So is there anything real beyond it?

[Norio]

So is there anything real beyond it?

Beyond the now, no. Now is all there is.

The now is a helpful pointer indeed. I should qu

[Norio]

So is there anything real beyond it?

Beyond the now, no. Now is all there is.

The now is a helpful pointer indeed. Hm.

[Norio]

I wouldn't even say anything is really hapenning, because that would imply that there is some "thing" to happen... and a "thing" is just another illusory individualization... perhaps not relevant to the purposes of this site though, so perhaps I shouldn't bring it up. But its hard not to. =/

[jeffdilbeck]

Are you saying that it doesn't need to be said that 'things' happen, because there is ultimately only one movement happening?

Is that movement personal?

Can you explain this a little more?

Also, are you conflicted at all? How's it going?

[Norio]

Are you saying that it doesn't need to be said that 'things' happen, because there is ultimately only one movement happening?

I think movement is an illusion.

Is that movement personal?

No.

Can you explain this a little more?

I got the insight from Buddhism. Everything is empty. But yeah, whatever is happening is happening. I wouldn't use the word personal vs impersonal though. But controlled or uncontrolled. Likewise the word 'self' brings up emotional content. But 'controler' or 'doer' are impersonal words. Its easier to see that there is no controller than to deal with the baggage of the personality.

Also, are you conflicted at all? How's it going?

I wouldn't say I'm conflict-free. I'm less conflicted though.

[jeffdilbeck]

Can we revisit expectations again?

So much time has passed. I want to see what you expect to be the result of awakening.