Guide to truth

[bth]

HI Carolyn,

Sure!

about the sense of being in control

Is there such a thing as the sense of being in control, or is it the thought/interpretation: sense of being in control?

What needs/can happen in order for you to not feel that way?

Barry

[Prahathit]

Hi Barry

Is there such a thing as the sense of being in control, or is it the thought/interpretation: sense of being in control?
I've been seeing that I have no control over my body. Awhile back, I saw how thought could not be responsible for lifting up my arm. Since then I've become aware that there are zillions of things happening in the body that I don't even know about, much less have control over.
Today I had "plans" and then my body got an infection and everything became different. I do notice that the plans I make often don't come true.
Since there is no being in control, I would have to say that it is a thought/interpretation/sensation of being in control.

What needs/can happen in order for you to not feel that way? It seems that I need to keep looking at the many ways I am not in control. The body and reality in general are quite complex and there is no way that thought can steer those happenings.

And yet, I feel as though something is sitting inside this body like the captain of a ship stands behind the wheel-- guiding the ship's progress across the sea. Even as I write this, it seems really funny. in fact, it almost makes me laugh.
Carolyn

[bth]

HI Carolyn,

And yet, I feel as though something is sitting inside this body like the captain of a ship stands behind the wheel-- guiding the ship's progress across the sea. Even as I write this, it seems really funny. in fact, it almost makes me laugh.

Is there something behind that feeling?

I might suggest for you to try a differenct guide since I dont have a lot more to give for you in the light of this inquiry. I also think you "know"the questions I m going to ask you, so the question is if you are really willing to look through the stories you hold on to with my way of guiding.

Please tell me your thoughts.

Barry

[Prahathit]

Hi Barry
With your guidance I've seen many things-- that abstractions such as mind, ego, truth, and even the self are thoughts. I've seen that thought can't control the body.
When I say I know the final questions it's because I've read them in Ilona's book. The reason I feel reluctant to answer them is because I don't yet see the answers clearly enough.
You have been a great guide. I think you are the one who should decide if I need a different guide (something I never considered) because you know the process and I don't. You know the questions and whether nor not you have anymore to ask me.
Carolyn

[bth]

Hi Carolyn,

The reason I said that cause we keep getting back to that "sense", and at this moment I dont know how I can assist you with that further since I will be repeating myself :). Or if you are willing you need to give me a big fat YES that you are willing to deal with this once and for all.

But that also means that if you say something about that in the light of this conversation you need to first self confirm the following questions, and than see if the question still remains:

It all comes down to just simple looking. If you feel insecure/in control, you look, is it a thought? is it real? If I experience insecurity/control, does it stick? What is behind it? To whom does this feeling belong? Can I find the specific moment when it happens? etcc..

Those are the questions after initial seeing you need to keep doing untill there is really not to much to talk about anymore.

Further,

What "can" or "must" happen in order for you to feel secure?

Do you see that all answers what you are giving are just labels.. interpretations giving by thought, and can be directly looked into?

Barry

[bth]

was just thinking:

About those feelings/sensations: really go into them, experience them, and than ask the questions (this also applies the the last part, about the feeling of insecurity) :).

Barry

[Prahathit]

Hi Barry
Or if you are willing you need to give me a big fat YES that you are willing to deal with this once and for all.

Of course I am willing. If I weren't I wouldn't keep up the conversation. I'm not trying to be uncooperative. Every morning I read your post carefully and spend the day looking at your pointers, then in the evening answer as honestly as I can. This process is new and unfamiliar to me-- not like anything I've ever done-- and I'm still learning.

It all comes down to just simple looking. If you feel insecure/in control, you look, is it a thought? is it real? If I experience insecurity/control, does it stick? What is behind it? To whom does this feeling belong? Can I find the specific moment when it happens? etcc..

The word insecurity struck a chord with me. Right away I was able to experience a strong sensation in my torso. Like other "emotions," thought labeled it as "insecurity." I don't know what you mean by real. Do you mean the sensation I feel or the thought-label of insecurity? The feeling stuck for a while and then went away. There is nothing behind it. It doesn't belong to anyone. During the day the sensation was there in varying intensity and no, I couldn't say specifically when each time it began to happen.

What "can" or "must" happen in order for you to feel secure? I don't know how to answer this.

Do you see that all answers what you are giving are just labels.. interpretations giving by thought, and can be directly looked into?

Yes, I see that all use of language in thought or speaking or writing is labeling.
Carolyn

[bth]

Hi Carolyn,

Oke great. I felt like expressing this since I imagined we went in circles, so I thought maybe another angle would be more helpful. But you saying that you are still processing is fuel for me to continue.

I imagine what you need to look at is the sensations/feelings. The feeling of control could be imagined by thoughts by the amount of tension and unprocessed sensations still in you, and wanting to run away with thoughts. This can be quiet scary.

For example as an exsercise,

Think of Trump:

-Really go into those sensations of "anger" and others sensations like helplessness,
-Experience them, not to run away with thoughts but really invite them
-This will be scary, and you might need to do this a couple of times in order to really process this.
-Now again:

Ask the the previous questions again and most importantly:

What is behind it if fully experienced?

Barry

[Prahathit]

Hi Barry--
Another thing I've seen that I forgot to mention-- that even if I do feel in control or that I have a familiar sense of self that that doesn't have to matter. Those thoughts don't have to change. I don't have to convince myself of anything.

Think of Trump:
You really got me with this one! These sensations came very easily. I sat for 15 minutes with my body shaking with the sensations thought labeled as anger, helplessness, sorrow, and fear. After 15 minutes I kept sitting but the sensations eased. I didn't feel like I was running away.
-Really go into those sensations of "anger" and others sensations like helplessness,
-Experience them, not to run away with thoughts but really invite them
-This will be scary, and you might need to do this a couple of times in order to really process this.
-Now again:

Ask the the previous questions again and most importantly:

What is behind it if fully experienced? I think I know what you mean by "behind it." Do you mean an entity, a self that experiences and owns the feelings/sensations? If so, I don't find anything like that. Just the sensations in the body.

I know this is outside our conversation but about half the US feels like 9/11 has happened all over again. Except much worse. Half the population is scared, angry, feeling helpless, and sad. The Trump regime feels unbearable. I imagine that Europeans are also concerned.
Carolyn

[bth]

HI Carolyn,

Another thing I've seen that I forgot to mention-- that even if I do feel in control or that I have a familiar sense of self that that doesn't have to matter. Those thoughts don't have to change. I don't have to convince myself of anything.

Yes this it. Thoughts remain just there seen for what they are.

And yes with behind it I mean, is there an entity, can the sensation stick

I know this is outside our conversation but about half the US feels like 9/11 has happened all over again. Except much worse. Half the population is scared, angry, feeling helpless, and sad. The Trump regime feels unbearable. I imagine that Europeans are also concerned.

Im not so concerned. Im here to show you the watermelon is also applicable for Trump.

In order to see this its more about experiencing the sensations involved, the more you do that, the more you will start to see and start to notice that Trump doesnt exists, since the attention on the thoughts will be "less" fueled.

(that doesnt mean that you cannot get involved, you might, and you might not after this process)

So again, go and look into those "unbearable" sensations.

after that:

Can you see Trump?
There is no You that exist. Does Trump exist?

Barry

[Prahathit]

Hi Barry,

It's definitely getting easier for me to allow painful sensations. I also notice my first response which is to run away from them. It's not hard to ignore that impulse and let the sensations be.

Im not so concerned.
Can you explain this more? Are you saying, like they do in Advaita, that the world is an illusion? That whatever appears to happen in terms of Trump and Putin and the people dying in Aleppo is only appearance?

Im here to show you the watermelon is also applicable for Trump.
I do see that I have many thoughts about Trump. And many sensations which thought labels as emotions. I see that none of that has anything to do with the reality of who Trump is or what is happening. I have built a large Trump Watermelon, which I have been believing in.

Can you see Trump?
There is no You that exist. Does Trump exist?
I see that there is no "self" inside the body of Trump. Only a collection of tendencies that appear to form a person. But in as that collection of tendencies, he does seem to exist. Or are you saying that he is completely an illusion?
Carolyn

[bth]

HI Carolyn,

Its good that you start to allow sensations more. Herin lies the key to falling. Just invite and experience and even express whatever is needed.

But you are getting a little lost in stories again.

Getting lost and to run away in the world of stories (Trump, Putin) is an easy way to divert yourself from clear seeing. Its safe, and secure, but these things need to be seen through as well. Maybe its an idea to not read the news for a bit now.

I dont know what Advaita does, and have no experience in.

You asked me whether or not its an illusion and does Trump seem to exist.

That is something you must see yourself.

Its interesting for me that you slowly see that you dont exist but have troubles seeing that Trump and "world" problems are also thoughts similar to I. Its like saying Im death, but Trump is still alive ;).

There is only here now (direct experience).

Start really look again:

Just look into the room,

Can you find a Trump anywhere in the direct Experience (here and now)? Or is it simply a thought?
If you go into those collections of tendencies/ sensations again, and look at them invite them, do you they have the have the same power over you as yesterday? Or do they change, and even dissappear sometimes?

Barry

[Prahathit]

Hi Barry,
Just look into the room,

Can you find a Trump anywhere in the direct Experience (here and now)?
No I have no direct experience of Trump.
Or is it simply a thought?
Trump is a thought. A thought formed by what I've heard and seen in images on TV and other places.
If you go into those collections of tendencies/ sensations again, and look at them invite them, do you they have the have the same power over you as yesterday?
I definitely didn't notice any strong sensations today-- not about Trump or otherwise.

Or do they change, and even dissappear sometimes?
Yes, the sensations are always changing. Yes, sometimes they disappear.
Carolyn

[bth]

Hi Carolyn,

Yes its really about going into those sensations and beliefs that are most deeply held. To put it in words is the most difficult thing to do but you could still get involved. It comes more from a perception of clarity than out of getting lost in you own maze of thoughts about something.

If something is fully experienced and also on the level of sensations/feelings it comes and goes, it doesnt stick, and the more you do that, the more you make a "choice" to look at that process, more space will enter the body, and you start to notice that no one can be responsible for anything, how difficult that sometimes is (but that also can be experienced again). The reality just is.

Yes Trump is just a thought. Is there a something like a Carolyn? Or is this also a name giving by your parents, and you have believed in? If the thoughts Carolyn disappears, where do you begin and where do you end?

Barry

[Prahathit]

Hi Barry,

Is there a something like a Carolyn? No there isn't. Carolyn is just a collection of tendencies that appear to form a person.

Or is this also a name giving by your parents, and you have believed in? Yes, this collection was given the name by my parents.

If the thoughts Carolyn disappears, where do you begin and where do you end? This is the most profound thing you have written to me. With this pointer, a big space opens. No beginning, no end, in space or time. No boundaries.
Carolyn