eternal prayer

[illusions13]

It feels like an idea about the boundary.
I dont see why it needs to be restricted to any idea of inside or outside unless I start analysing it.

As for the witness part, nothing that I can identify or pinpoint or feel.
Its just the brain that sort of says that there has to be something that is feeling the sensations, analysis again.

[Ilona]

As for the witness part, nothing that I can identify or pinpoint or feel.
Its just the brain that sort of says that there has to be something that is feeling the sensations, analysis again.

Yeah. The witness comes with language, as part of description.
Witnessing /happening is one and the same, it only appears that there is two, something that sees and something that is seen. But have a look, is there a gap between the seer and the seen?

Sending love

[illusions13]

I dont think so...I cant see any gap.
Unable to put in words what i am feeling right now.
Its something like....I am a part of all thats happening!
Its all me...everything around...its all one and same thing.
Getting some odd overwhelming inexplicable feeling.

Also, at the same time, the brain is wondering...if this its just the influence of your words that makes me feel this way!

[Ilona]

Yes! It's all one and the same thing expressing as multitude of forms!
How are you doing? Is there any difference in everyday life? Is seeking still going strong?
Write what you notice.

Sending love

[illusions13]

One and the same thing expressing as multitude of forms!
Such a lovely line. Not only did it make sense...it was awesome to feel it. Even if for a few fleeting seconds.

Unable to answer your questions somehow.
Unable to pinpoint any difference as such in life.
Seeking...maybe same level...at the most....the things we have discussed so far seem to come to mind more often.
Or strike at moments when things make sense based on them and everything seems to fall into place suddenly.

Somehow not able to ponder much on these questions or answer properly...not sure why.
Telling you as it is honestly, my responses might not make sense but thats how it is for me right now.

[Ilona]

Thank you for honesty, it is as it it.
So what are you still looking for?

What are the burning questions that need resolution?

Sending love

[illusions13]

I have been thinking on this.
I dont think I ever really had any clear specific question in mind when I started out...but there was probably this curiosity to understand the self and maybe the connection with the things around us...the interplay between the 2. And some kind of desire to understand the 'I'.
Its still vague...the question.
And honestly, even then it wasnt really a 'burning' question, nothing that troubled me.
Maybe thats irrelevant info, just sharing.
Sorry for not being clear but its not clear in my own head.

But I do see a change in my attitude now. A lot of blocks regarding separation seem to have dropped. I see myself increasingly not getting into things that identify with a self. I dont have to force myself to think a certain way and make myself believe it. It seems to occur naturally .... that things just are....'I' just am.
At a practical level, I notice...I can see that I am digressing from just experiencing things to ...making stories and much more out of them with my thinking and analysis.
What really is...is much clearer.

So whatever the level of seeking was earlier, has surely gone down.

I dont know if this is clear. I dont think I have expressed coherently.
Maybe some more questions might help steer. :)

[Ilona]

Here is a question, is it clear, can you say a big fat YES, that separate self/ I is an illusion?
If so, are you ready for the final questions?

Much love

[illusions13]

As of now..its a big fat YES! :)

I am ready!

[Ilona]

Sweet! Here they are :)

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Can you talk about decision, intention, free will, choice and control? What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Please answer in full, when ready.

Much love.

[illusions13]

Thanks.
This might take me some time.
And I am assuming, as with the rest of the exploration...I give experience and feel priority over thinking and analysing.
Just a bit worried that when I attempt to describe things in detail, thoughts and analysis kinda come in automatically and probably mess it up a bit.

[Ilona]

Hey, are you still here?

Sending love

[illusions13]

Hello..yes, very much.
Just got caught in some unexpected things.
In fact, I just sat right now to go through the last set of questions.

I am sorry I didnt inform you about the delay.
I will revert shortly.
Thanks.

[illusions13]

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

There is no distinct or separate self, me or I. It seems there never was.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The separate self seems to be something that has been constructed by thoughts. It is a concept, not an actual thing.
If we didnt ascribe thoughts to something or analyse life around us, or try and apply the happenings in this world to something in particular, not try and find a subject for all that occurs....there would be no self. Yet all else would still remain the same.
It probably starts very early on in life, the moment one learns to communicate and observe.
At present, I am unable to see a real 'self, me or I'. Whenever I feel it might be real, I can trace it back to simply a creation of thoughts.
The brain still analyses the possibility of an I but I feel that there is none.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

It feels very liberating and peaceful.
I am probably not analysing as much as earlier about how why things are affecting me/happening to me and accepting whatever is happening as it is, rather than as a reflection on me or my life etc.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

I am unable to pinpoint any single thing.
I think its been more of a continuous process/journey for me....the essence being...to feel and see ... rather than think and analyse.

5) Can you talk about decision, intention, free will, choice and control? What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

All these words, they just seem to be an interpretation of our actions and the subsequent 'results'. Or at the most, a way to handle whats happening around us anyway.
Life goes on, it keeps happening no matter what. The rest is all seem like a part of the story we build for ourselves.
Decision, intention, free will, choice and control...they probably just help steer our storyline..our illusions around the self.

We are responsible for how we analyse and interpret life around us, in us. And possibly the actions that result due to this analysis.

I am unable to explain more or give specific examples, as I do not have full clarity on this maybe. This is a bit vague in my head although I truly feel what i expressed.

6) Anything to add?

Not much really.
The self seems like a necessary evil to live in this world.
To be used as a tool. But without getting into the trap of making it all about the self.
But maybe the thing that really pleases me .. in all of this...is having acquired to a certain extent, the ability to differentiate between thoughts and feeling/seeing.
Things are so much clearer and simpler when you just look at them what they are.
The moment the mind steps in...the craziness begins. :)
This might not be the crux of this exploration but its one that i am extremely happy with, hence sharing! :)

Thanks for your patience and ..over to you!

[Ilona]

Thank you very much for answers, I'm delighted that you now get how to feel and see, rather than think. This is a shift in perception.
One thing that stood out in your reply is this

There is no distinct or separate self, me or I. It seems there never was.

There is a doubt.
Would you say that "it seems that there never was real Santa" after realising that Santa is a character of made up story?
Can you contemplate on this and write how you see it.
Was there ever a separate self?
What is actually happening, does it come and go?

You also say that we are responsible for how we analyse and interpret life. You can say that in a self help book and it will be true in some context. Can you look closer here, what are you responsible for, what is the i that is responsible, or can be irresponsible?

Sending love