My imagined thread

[Canfora]

Hi Busy day, I'll reply tomorrow.

[Canfora]

Today I saw the question 'is there anyone experiencing life' and noticed that the question had something to discover left in it so I spend the day with it, noticing the obvious. When walking with the dogs a thought popped up about everything just being an effect, and explored that a bit. Than a couple minutes later there was a little opening of the heart of something like that, it felt like a door was opened a tiny bit and a sense of gratefulness and love came (just a bit). At this point I don't really know if there is a question that is still helpful, because all seems to be pretty darn obvious, I think I'll just do nothing at all and notice this.

What is obvious?
What is noticed?
Please share :)

[Florisness]

Great, thank you!

Quick expansion on what happened yesterday: When walking with the dogs the thought came that everything experienced is an effect. Than another thought popped up about a truck dumping experience just in life, which seems to be my experience, everything just moves in here without any control over it. Then I asked is there a self and I could see no, there is none. But there was still a sense of subtle doubt there. Although it still opened up something.

What is obvious?
What is noticed?
Please share :)

That there is just experience, it's not experienced by something, and it doesn't belong to anything. A sound isn't experienced by anything in the body or by a thought, etc. Just that sound itself is the knowing/seeing of the sound.

I can't say without doubt that there isn't an I, but I can see that it is the sense of being that seems to be hanging around/in the body that is the cause of the confusion.
When I use pouring a juice inside a glass (with juice being experience) as a metaphor for "my" experience, than what of this experience could possibly be an I? that seems to challenge the doubt that is present.

[Canfora]

Are you comparing the glass/juice with the body/experiences? That's nice!
But do you think that there is something inside of the body experiencing experiences?
That the body is a kind of container?
Try this little experience: sit in a quiet place, close your eyes, be present with what is being experienced.

• If you focus in the sensations:
  
  Is it possible to know where the body begins and ends?
  
  Does the body have borders?
  
  Do you feel experience is contained inside a body or is the body also "inside" what is being experienced?

With eyes open and looking at the body. You can see shapes and colours. Are those shapes and colors separated from all the other shapes and colors that you can see? Or is the body one more shape and color among all the others?

Do you experience separation - a me separate from the rest? Even without deconstructing objective reality... is reality made of separate parts or a all?

[Florisness]

Are you comparing the glass/juice with the body/experiences? That's nice!
But do you think that there is something inside of the body experiencing experiences?
That the body is a kind of container?

Hmm no, I was comparing the juice with all experience. But thanks for the exercise anyway. Yes the body-experience is definitely just a part within all experience. What you mean by "does the body have borders" I don't know, frankly it's quite a silly question. With eyes closed there really is not a body, just sensations. Does sensation have borders? Uhh..? Who makes up these weird questions anyway? Why don't you answer such a weird question? Ha! Yes, I think that's a fair deal, here's one for you: Does the color green have a border? Now I don't want an avoiding answer where you talk around it doing your enlightened thing, just a yes or no and I want the answer at my desk in the morning. (just kidding of course).

With eyes open and looking at the body. You can see shapes and colours. Are those shapes and colors separated from all the other shapes and colors that you can see? Or is the body one more shape and color among all the others?

Do you experience separation - a me separate from the rest? Even without deconstructing objective reality... is reality made of separate parts or a all?

Yes the body is just an experience among all others, of course, that makes a lot of sense. I could also see that without any interpretation there wouldn't be any identification, but yes I know, this is intellectualizing. Expending a bit: Everything is experience and all experience changes. I can't be -and is not- an experience.
Not sure how to answer your last question. My experience seems to consist out experience interpreted as things.

Things seem to be a bit shifting again the last two days (subtlely). Sorry that I can't tell what the current obstacle seems to be. I'll go have a walk again, these walks can really work like magic.

[Canfora]

Does the color green have a border?

42

You know that any obstacle you can find is a thought, right? Are you responsable for your thinking? Is it your thinking?

[Florisness]

You know that any obstacle you can find is a thought, right? Are you responsable for your thinking? Is it your thinking?

Ahh yes that's true, thanks. I can see that "I'm" more or less through. It feels/seems/uhhwhateeverIdon'tknow like the obviousness just needs to get processed. I'll write again later, thank you.

[Canfora]

Can you describe what you're saying it's obvious?

[Florisness]

That there is just experience. It is not owned by anything , not experienced by anything, not done by anything and not known by anything.

Now the shitty I label is just a shitty I label, and guess what? This shitty label isn't able to do anything and doesn't point to something that can do something.

Sometimes there is a fear - that fear has been here quite some time actually, no idea why I didn't tell you about it - to believe in the I thought, or it is fear for the I thought arising, like it's just going to bring terror to the world and will morph all experience back to ground 0 like when just heard about enlightenment. Not knowing that this arising doubt (later to become fear) was better considered as a friend than an enemy, it sure did interrupt what could have been an easy process. Ahh well.. Also I noticed that there was fear of not getting it or something, yeah that really helped too!.. haha

actually I don't think it's completely done, or whatever you want to call it, just yet.

ahh goddamned it was just like 20 minutes ago that I asked if the label "I" was more than just a label, should better have done that earlier. The reason I didn't was because I actually thought that hearing or seeing the word 'I' could have actually morphed experience back to a more in-I-believing-zone. HAHAHAHA

[Canfora]

It seems to me that you're somehow judging what's going on as good or bad, wanted or unwanted?
What is giving an inherent meaning to experience? You - the thinker, the knower and interpreter of what is going on? Or what is going on - when thinking - is the innocent belief in the content of thoughts? The labeling of what is happening? (while it is already a past event)
Can you see how this pull to label something as shitty or easy keeps you struggling?

[Florisness]

There is no monster under the bed! There wasn't a big last push needed, more of an accepting of 'okay no doer, no me who is anything, just this'. It's a bit more peaceful and there is less interest in thoughts. You mind me sticking around a bit longer here for if something pops? Really thankful for your help! Gives me tears, thank you thank you thank you

[Canfora]

:) you have been guiding yourself and I've been trying to follow you :)

You mind me sticking around a bit longer here for if something pops?

No, I don't mind at all. I would like you to answer LU's "standard final questions" and join the aftercare groups when you feel you are ready. But it's up to you, of course :)

[Florisness]

Great thank you! Again I feel emotions coming up reading your reply. What a weird gratitude thing! :)
Yes all sounds good

[Canfora]

Yes all sounds good

Are you saying you would like to answer those questions?
Does that mean you are 100% sure that life is happening without a self?
Or do you have any lingering doubts?

[Florisness]

Are you saying you would like to answer those questions?

Yes

Does that mean you are 100% sure that life is happening without a self?
Or do you have any lingering doubts?

Yes all is being done without an I pulling the strings. It's all just happening, things just are here.