Durian, what brings you here?

[Ilona]

I tell you as simply as I can how this works.
It's one focused look, nothing else. Once you stop to actualy take a proper look for yourself- seeing happens.

To get you to look, I have to keep your focus on that, no chat and not convincing ever works, you actually have to look. What is obvious? Is there a noticer? Witnesser? Observer?
What is?

[durian]

What is obvious is existence, just now. Reaching back to the supposed past or holding back from the supposed future appears (at more lucid times) ridiculous. Today has been an experience of, I won't say 'not taking things personally'...but more like 'not taking "taking things personally" personally'. Like, same patterns of reaction but more a sense of them happening automatically due to memories/past conditioning + trigger = body reaction/feeling, having to play themselves out once they get activated—but the reaction wasn't really just due to the trigger (reaction is way bigger in proportion to the size of the trigger, due to old habits being reactivated)...oh this program is running again...still painful and often sucks but some space around the experience.

The witnesser/noticer/observer is part of the program too, not really on its own with some wiser, more independent perspective, just seems that way; but as I write this, the illusory separate observer thinks, "well, this is clever, isn't it? Don't I get credit for something?" :P

[Ilona]

The witnesser/ observer/ noticer is not part of program, it's part of imaginary identities.
There is no witnesser in witnessing same way as there is no breather in breathing. It all happens.
There is no observer which observes, but observing happening. + Comentary in the head also just happening.

Can that be seen?

[durian]

By "part of program" I mean the program that is running (like a computer program), the automatically generated stuff, just happening.

[Ilona]

good stuff, durian, so is there an i that is in charge of them automatic processes? was there ever?

[durian]

No there is not an I in charge of that automatic process, so there never could have been before this either. That's funny though, the I is not in charge of the automatic processes but it still thinks it is at the effect of the automatic processes (not causing it but experiencing it)—but there are small breaks from this. So in other words there is still a sense of I operating(?) but this sense is less dominating—there is some space around it. Not sure if that's true though cuz that would be like seeing halfway? I'm not even sure what I'm writing is accurately describing anything—did it make any sense?

[Ilona]

Good good, let's keep digging. It feels half way, so let's get you through with both legs.

The sense of I. Focus on it. Where is it, what is the shape of it? I'd it whole body or space around the body too? Locate that feeling of aliveness, amness, being (verb), take a look if it's there always and does it need a label to be put on it?
Is the feeling changing if you label it I or me, or self?

Can it be that it's impersonal?
Can you see that what is experienced is simply experience experienced without an I in between?

Write what you find.

[durian]

The sense of I seems like it is in the brain, the head, the thoughts, and also in the tension in the body. Basically it seems like brain activity and body tension.

Not sure about the feeling changing when labeled 'I' or 'me' or 'self'. The labeling seems to add tension to the picture. But I don't know if that is due to the label or the actual brain's labeling process, and the tension from thinking a feeling is mine.

Have been looking for what the sense of 'I' is, shape, etc. the past couple days and although I have the answer above, at a certain point tonight I realized how much energy it was taking to look (probably looked for longer than necessary) for an 'I' during a time when there wasn't a sense of one. Then (now) there was (is) more relaxation.

[Ilona]

The sense of I seems like it is in the brain, the head, the thoughts, and also in the tension in the body. Basically it seems like brain activity and body tension.

You say seems, but is it true?
Investigate here. What is behind that feeling? Can you take a peak, and see what is there.

[durian]

What is behind what feeling? Confused. Behind the feeling of 'I' in the body as movement and tension?

Feeling foggy with the looking. Been a bit sick the past few days along with having a guest and traveling and poorly managed work deadlines. Things will be slower after Monday. Then maybe the fog will have a chance to settle.

Love,
D

[durian]

haha, I mean, 'lift' not 'settle'. Um... :]

[Ilona]

It's about time to stop looking and start seeing.
What do you see?
What is simplest most obvious thing that you see?

[durian]

What I see today is the sense of everyone/everything being a part of a big reaction-computer with everything affecting everything else.

What is most obvious is just existence, alhtough it still seems mostly elusive at the same time.

[Ilona]

What is most obvious is just existence, alhtough it still seems mostly elusive at the same time.

can you inspect this closer, what is here that makes that existence seem elusive? where does attention go to so that the obvious becomes cloudy?

[durian]

The attention goes to thoughts, in time. It doesn't want to let go of time.