The Gate

Hi Lorenzo :)

I just wanted you to know that I'm away this weekend with only my phone to connect to internet with.

I've read your post and will have a go with it and share hopefully tomorrow evening :)

Thanks!

Hi Jakob, how are you doing?

Hi :)

You know, it's the same as before. I'm struggling a bit to get the motivation and energy back into the investigation.

The last two days it's been long days at work (where I'm basically totally lost in thoughts all the time) and when I've got back home and sat down with your last post I've only fallen asleep... I often feel like I would need all my attention on this. Like having a job and doing this is difficult to combine. Luckily I will work a little less in the coming week.

As for now I don't feel like I've got something meaningful to report. I like your last post but haven't paid as much time with it as needed. Doing an "exercise" and falling asleep doesn't count ;)

I'll try to get back to you with something more meaningful to say tomorrow.

Hi Jakob how are you doing?

Hi! I don’t know really… As I’ve said before the motivation hasn’t been the best the latest. When having things in life demanding much energy from you (like a less meaningful job…) I find it a bit difficult to push through when the energy is lacking here as well.. unfortunately.

What do you say about us starting from scratch again? From whichever angle you feel might be a good idea. And maybe give this a last shot. I don’t wanna keep this going and take up your time forever…

Yes I completely agree!
Sorry for my late response but I loved to another continent and things are sometimes not so easy :)

So where are you now in this moment? Where is jakob?

Don't answer with thoughts but look for it and see what comes.
It seems to me that you know all the correct answers but don't care about them just look now.

Nice and easy :)

So

Wow, have you moved to another continent? That’s for sure a big thing so I can imagine you’ve got things to do… where have you moved to?

So where are you now in this moment? Where is jakob?

Right now when investigating there’s thoughts (a lot of memories), feelings, sensations that all seem to make up an entity called Jakob. But I do see that all of these things stand on their own and that I don’t find anyone, me, controlling any of this.

But maybe the feeling of there being a separate me is in the observer. There is always someone/something present observing what’s going on.
This is maybe not directly connected to what I just wrote but when being around other people I can become extremely self-conscious. At those times the feeling of a separate me is very strong as there is the feeling that I’m aware of myself... like there is some-one judging the thought’s, what is being said, feelings and so on.

Thank you for giving this a last try, even in the midst of moving :)

I moved from Italy to California :)

This observer is it personal? Does it have some attributes of some sort?
Can you see how everything arise and is witnessed by this observer?

If you feel this feeling of being me of being self-aware just stay with it and see what it looks like when you remove the label "feeling of being me".
Where is it? In the chest/shoulder/gut/back
If you stay with it does it move? Does it change/become stronger or weaker or does it stop?
Does it come and go by itself?

Can you see how it is just energy moving and how a thought appear saying "this is me".

And just to be sure:
Are you 100% sure about the fact you cannot control your thoughts?

That’s a big move :)
I hope that everything works out great and that you all in California get some water soon!

This observer is it personal?

At times it feels very, very personal. It feels personal as it is very close so to say and because of the fact that the perspective is personal. What I observe, you don’t, or he, or she, or them… and so on.
But who claims it? Does there have to be a someone, or could there just be observing happening? I would say yes – there could just be observing happening but for some reason this doesn’t feel clear to me. It could also be personal…

Can you see how everything arise and is witnessed by this observer?

When being still I can see that everything just arise and moves away. But when being in the midst of something there is more of an automatic identification with what arises.

If you feel this feeling of being me of being self-aware just stay with it and see what it looks like when you remove the label "feeling of being me".
Where is it? In the chest/shoulder/gut/back
If you stay with it does it move? Does it change/become stronger or weaker or does it stop?
Does it come and go by itself?

I will try to do this. But when being really self-aware (in the not so good way) there is often not the space or presence to stop and pause. But whenever I’ll remember I’ll do it.

If I would locate it I would say it’s in the head, appearing especially as a pressure at the temples. It is felt as an energy, and yes, it often moves around, becoming stronger and weaker and eventually stopping or taking another shape. After all – it’s just energy moving around. But then there is this voice always commenting it, wanting to change it and so on… Then another voice commenting on the first one and so on. The endless loop… I realize now that in the end, no matter how many thoughts there is wanting to comment each other, there’s always one that is being believed in a little more than the others. I can see the fallacy in this.
Gee… I must seem like a madman… lol ;)

Can you see how it is just energy moving and how a thought appear saying "this is me".

Taking a step back I can see this. Being in the midst of it all, commenting on it all, it’s not as clear.

Are you 100% sure about the fact you cannot control your thoughts?

I would have thought that I am, but looking at what I’ve been writing I’m starting to question this. I mean having thoughts commenting other thoughts is in a way wanting to control things, or can at least very easily lead to that.

Always these layers to peel back…

Yes everything is going well here! :)

Are you 100% sure about the fact you cannot control your thoughts?

I would have thought that I am, but looking at what I’ve been writing I’m starting to question this. I mean having thoughts commenting other thoughts is in a way wanting to control things, or can at least very easily lead to that.
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OK let's look at this and please put all your effort in answering from your direct experience in this moment without conceptualizing or trying to give the "right answer"

Where do thoughts come from?
Where do they go?
Can you stop or predict the next thought?

Can you choose not to have these commenting thoughts you are talking about?

Are commenting thoughts different from other thoughts?
Could you find something thinking commenting thoughts?

Is there something to which these thougts belong?

Please clarify about believing a thought.
What happens in terms of direct experience (thoughts/sensations/...) when you say "a thought is believed"?

What is believing a thought?

Ok answers only from DE in this moment!

Where do thoughts come from?

They just pop up. From… who knows…?!

Where do they go?

The just dissappear, end.

Can you stop or predict the next thought?

No! Impossible.

Can you choose not to have these commenting thoughts you are talking about?

No! I wish I could though ;)

Are commenting thoughts different from other thoughts?

Inherently no. Thoughts are thoughts. The emotional reaction might be a lot stronger for a “commenting thought” than a thought just saying “that’s a nice car”, but in and of themselves thoughts are not different.

Could you find something thinking commenting thoughts?

No. The thoughts just appears.

Is there something to which these thougts belong?

Not that I know of. There are thoughts that might say so, but that’s ust more thoughts.

Please clarify about believing a thought.
What happens in terms of direct experience (thoughts/sensations/...) when you say "a thought is believed"?

There is sort of a contraction happening. A stream of more and more thoughts appear and physically the shoulders can stiffen and basically the opposite of relaxation is being felt.

What is believing a thought?

I don’t have a good answere here. I can’t find a ”what”. Or who… ;)

Great!

What is saying that the shoulder contraction means believing?
Is it perhaps a thought?

Can you see the whole automatic chain going by itself?

What is saying that the shoulder contraction means believing?
Is it perhaps a thought?

Yes, it’s a thought saying that. Although it wouldn’t feel right to deny that there is a connection between believing and taking thoughts serious and the shoulders contracting. OK I know, more thoughts…
Ahh, should you ever listen to the mind!?!

Can you see the whole automatic chain going by itself?

Yes. If there were an I that could stop it, I would…

What is saying that the shoulder contraction means believing?
Is it perhaps a thought?

Yes, it’s a thought saying that. Although it wouldn’t feel right to deny that there is a connection between believing and taking thoughts serious and the shoulders contracting.

Look carefully at this in experience.
What is doing the believing?

What is the believing?
What is the taking thoughts seriously?

Are these just sensations? Energy moving through the body that are interpreted in some way?
What is doing this interpreting?
Are you 100% sure that what is called for example "believing sensation" is actually believing?

What is doing the believing?

No what or who is found. Thoughts pop up (often accompanied with sensations) and some are paid attention to and others not. This is all just happening without any control.

What is the believing?
What is the taking thoughts seriously?

Don’t really know how to answer these questions. Things happen, thoughts appear, the body react in different ways, judgments are being made.

Are these just sensations? Energy moving through the body that are interpreted in some way?

Yes. I guess that if thoughts were not automatically taken to be true and sensations just allowed to be and not interpreted and judged, there wouldn’t be any problem. Now – all this just happens and then there’s more thoughts interpreting that…

What is doing this interpreting?

It just happens. Conditioning.

Are you 100% sure that what is called for example "believing sensation" is actually believing?

Difficult questions today ;)
Well, it’s all just thoughts, sensations, interpretations and so on in an endless mix. I guess you would have to say that it’s impossible to be 100% sure about anything.