Re: Anxiety, Doubt and Excitement, but I'd like to try
Posted: Fri May 31, 2013 9:28 am
Hi Martin,
What is now less clear? Let's have a LOOK at that.
love
Nona
What is now less clear? Let's have a LOOK at that.
love
Nona
Liberation Unleashed Forum The Gate
https://liberationunleashed.com:443/nation/
https://liberationunleashed.com:443/nation/viewtopic.php?t=2014
Life, including a body that is not separate from Life, is doing its thing automatically ALL the time. Check it!!! Is there anything happening at all that requires something Separate from Life to make it happen? Ever? LOOK!The body doing its thing automatically is seen most of the time
Sweetheart, there are thoughts that claim all kinds of things that turn out to be wrong: "the earth is flat", "people with dark skin are less intelligent than those with light skin", "global warming means the winters should be warmer".there are thoughts that claim that thoughts can at least influence other thoughts and the body
Yes; you seem to prefer spinning in thought to LOOKing at the evidence of your direct experience. And that's okay; it's just you will never, I promise you, never see through the illusion by using thinking. The illusion is MADE of thought; it's made of the same thinking you are using to try to see through it.The mind is just spinning in circles...
And you won't see one. There is no "you" that controls anything. Life just happens all by itself.I have been looking the last two days and I haven't yet seen any event that was controlled by a 'me' in direct experience.
Ah...Unmet Expectations of how it's 'supposed' to be.it has been seen that I is a thought and that things are happening by themselves, but there has not been a click in the mind or any "Ah, 'I' get it". Can 'I' get it at all? What is that click in the mind, are things clear afterwards and the illusion ALWAYS seen as illusion? Right now, self being a thought and not controlling can be seen when there is an explicit focus, but it's not always present...
No, none at all. There is a body and a mind that creates thoughts, and a separate 'I' or 'self' exists only in thoughts, not in reality.1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
The illusion of a separate self is the belief that there is an entity 'I' that can control things, i.e. make decisions and influence events independent from its environment. It probably starts in very early childhood when kids are taught to say 'I', 'my', 'mine' when they refer to their body, thoughts or even 'their' toys. Later kids are held accountable for 'their' actions and praised for 'their' successes which further reinforces the 'I' thought.2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
It doesn't feel much different. The main difference is that many thoughts about 'me' are labeled as 'just thought content' and focus shifts back to direct experience.3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
All in all it was relatively gradual. The time out in nature with focus on seeing things happening by themselves was where things became clearer.4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
This was the part where mind just didn't want the truth to be seen.5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.
Yes: Expectations were in the way all along. There are still thoughts like "this isn't the real deal" or "where is all the terror and joy" and in "mind world" those thoughts are coherent with and reinforced by other thoughts and mental images. But in reality life just flows on without any controller or 'I' and without anything to "get" except what actually is.6) Anything to add?
Do you have direct experience of the body and mind creating thoughts? Or do thoughts simply show up?There is a body and a mind that creates thoughts
No, in direct experience there was no observation of the mind creating thoughts. This was one more assumption mixed into the description of direct experience. What I did notice in direct experience though is that there are a lot of quick thoughts that consist of only some words/concepts. Following that are sometimes spoken thoughts that build a sentence with those words. There is probably a really huge amount of those quick concept thoughts that also feed the illusion of a separate self.I do have one question, if you would expand on #1. You wrote
There is a body and a mind that creates thoughts
Do you have direct experience of the body and mind creating thoughts? Or do thoughts simply show up?
If the first, please describe exactly how thoughts are created, and whether you have control over them.