hi I'm Douglas and I'm seeking a guide to help me out

[doug1976]

Hi Vince , are you alright?
Please come back:)
Doug

[vinceschubert]

are you alright?
Please come back:)

Yes thanks Doug. Been both traveling and sick.

..Into throwing a heap of doubts into it.
I have some doubts left.

Yes, mind does this. Can you see that doubt thoughts are just thoughts.
Do you think that all thoughts are to be trusted ?

[doug1976]

No ,thoughts can't be trusted.
Thoughts are automatic they can provide instant instruction for the body to respond or they are more complex even then they still arise out of no where.
Thoughts seem to arise all the time without my control.
The nature of each thoughts is emptiness or nothingness there's no thoughts I can hold onto.
Thoughts form patterns can create beliefs.
Out of that actions get done moment to moment.
Yet there isn't a thinker , a believer or a doer to be found.
There's no one organizing thoughts together motivating spontaneous actions or feelings.
Just happens the mind puts labels , categorizes into compartments good bad indifferent.
Spontaneous experiences shape the mind from moment to moment.
The nature of the mind is emptiness as there are no single thoughts that truly exist out of that nothingness everything arises.
Eg: I have experienced some powerful change in past trauma with the help of NLP the technic used at the time kinda undid the thought pattern that was keeping me stuck and thru that allowed me to experience the freedom that's already there.
All of that feels pretty normal and natural:)
The tendencies to identify to thoughts also occurs spontaneously the recognition that there's nothing to identify also arises.
nothing has changed because the nature of the stream cannot change.

[vinceschubert]

Doug, your sounding a bit like you are done. Is there a gate ? When you look for it, are you looking forward or backwards ?

[doug1976]

Well there are no gates , just a mind full of thoughts and feelings pointing in all directions for me to look for it ahead in the future back there in the past even now in the present but there are no gates , nothingness is simply there and out that every thoughts feelings arise,
at times those come with hooks telling me I'm this or I'm that , in truth none of these are real by nature , doubts come and goes hopes and despair celebration and defeats are all equally non existant by nature.simply conditioning of mind.
The difference between being green and being blue , nothing really the searching happens and there's identification and then a belief that I am me searching for and a strong attachment to the identification and a blindness to the nothing .( green)

And (blue) most of the above strong identification happens ....
I can see that all of that arises by itself the searching continues searching , the fighting carries on fighting ,the mind continues doing mind stuff I'm none of those .life continues.

what's the point of liberation ?
Absolutely pointless beyond losing and winning .
Nothing gained nothing lost.
There's nothing that can be added or subtracted to that.

[vinceschubert]

Nice answer Doug.
Give me your take on these questions please;
1) Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever? how about self, is there anything that is separate from everything else?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.

3) How does it feel to see this? describe in detail.

4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it.

5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look? was there a specific moment when seeing happened or was it gradual? what exactly happened?

6) When you say "I", what are you referring to?

7) Is there an experiencer experiencing, or is there only experience?

Actually look. Does experience belong to the body, or does the body belong to experience?

8) What did you experience at the moment you awoke?

9) Describe your experience in the hours and days following awakening

[doug1976]

No nothing separate just polarities dancing or fighting.
The great mystery gives rise to all flavours .
The mind appears to have favorites I like green but not grey etc....
There isn't a shortage of identification / life expressions in the centre of all the expressions , lies nothing not nothing as a separate identity although the later may rise as well as an expression but it's the great nothing with no opposition to itself .no me ever has never existed just pure fiction entertain by mind like a good story in a book born out of white pages each page showing a different flavor , drama romance .... Still born out of a white page .
The illusion of self arise spontaneously part of the mind surviving enjoying or pulling away that mechanism is always there and will always be there no start no end it's part of the great dance.
It's an illusion very convincing at times just an illusion still not separate from anything it claims separation but there's none there.
How it feels to see this , I was expecting bliss freedom elation but in fact none of the above feels ordinary
Vacated aware , with stories of sad ,stories of hope stories of is that it....
Really plain ordinary.
It's been more of a recovery as opposed a discovery.
There's nothing to describe no instructions to give for someone to get there.
There's nowhere to go no destination to reach or to flee from, it's always there.
Seeing always happens just the stories of the mind confusing it so the seeing that stories are stories kinda did it but I was seeing before during and after that's all there is.
When I say "I" I refer to the not me saying I and from the "I" emerges all the me stories trying "I " on like a vest or a pair of jeans and yet no separation in all the transient "I" s
Just expressions to give life a bit of colour and flavor.
no experience giving rise to experiences giving rise to experiencers .
always moving .
Experience and body move as one I can't that one belongs to the other.it could be but I don't see that .
They are partners.
Nothing really I can say I've always been awake it's the default non state.
It's real.
Not new.
Nothing experienced.
Also there wasn't a "moment " I awoke.
there I was here I am .
There's no future or post liberation to point to.
So I describe the feelings since liberation .
Just big nothing .no awakening no becoming no fireworks bottles of champagne and hang over unless that happens as part of my living stories.
Douglas
Thank you guide.

[vinceschubert]

i needed to get 3 others to confirm (and they did) that you have passed through the gateless gate, then you will be invited to join a Facebook group where 'gatecrashers' support each other.
There are many new 'skills' to be considered as you are entering a whole new world now.
Anyway, lots of this kind of processing happens in Unleashed, so "friend" me on Facebook and i will invite you to join.
https://www.facebook.com/vince.schubert
a small doc worth reading here; http://liberationunleashed.com/PDF/Awakened.pdf
and a great video here; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Biv_8xjj8E

vince

[s-p-a-c-e]

Hi Doug,

This is John from the UK and really enjoying your inquiry with Vince.

I'd like to ask you about something you mentioned earlier: "I have some doubts left."

What were those doubts?

WIth kind thanks,
John

[doug1976]

Hi John , Can't find the context of the doubts ,
I'll speak about them from here ,
The doubts were like an attachment to some story about what liberation should look like and then speaking from the story and getting stuck there instead of allowing the doubts to come and go as they wish , like a house cat coming and going in and out of the cat flap.:)
Douglas

[s-p-a-c-e]

Hi Doug,

Hi John , Can't find the context of the doubts ,
I'll speak about them from here ,
The doubts were like an attachment to some story about what liberation should look like and then speaking from the story and getting stuck there instead of allowing the doubts to come and go as they wish , like a house cat coming and going in and out of the cat flap.:)
Douglas

So would you say thoughts are to be ignored, dismissed?

Do they have any value whatsoever? Does not-attaching to thoughts mean that they have no value?

Best wishes,
John

p.s. here is the context:

Ok I'm 100 per cent sure that there's no one or nothing moving the hand .
I'm watching the moving of the hand and I ask is there a watcher there's certainly a vigilance , a checking up mechanism 'is this true? '
I sense there's no watcher either but I still experience some separation between the experience of watching and the experience of the hand moving.
I still experience a me watching the hand.
Maybe that's all story to make something really simple "there's no one moving the hand"
Into throwing a heap of doubts into it.
I have some doubts left.