good place

[graceabounds]

The sensation id describe as
Emptiness + negative judgement

What sensation is negative judgement? Describe it in direct experience.

It seems that which „makes sense“ is thought

And without that? If nothing needs to make sense or can make sense? Can the sensemaker take a permanent vacation?

what remains is body sensation.

And distilled down like this, is there any owner?

[daisyrain]

What sensation is negative judgement? Describe it in direct experience.

Found an "attitude of doubt" and followed that...
unironically, it might just be a tension in the forehead.

And without that? If nothing needs to make sense or can make sense? Can the sensemaker take a permanent vacation?

I have noooo idea

And distilled down like this, is there any owner?

unclear.
its like there's something afraid of being ripped apart.
this starts to feel really peaceful.

so, there is no owner proclaimed by the sensation itself.
what else is there to proclaim an owner?
hm..

[daisyrain]

This exercise transforms itself and it serves well.

There is addiction to the next Moment (be it addiction or not, dont much care for exact word), its in thoughts like:
„I’m gonna continue deepening this exercise“

This is avoidance of just doing it

[graceabounds]

Found an "attitude of doubt" and followed that...
unironically, it might just be a tension in the forehead

Very good. Excellent.

Now do “something afraid of being ripped apart” and “avoidance”

Are any of these contained in direct experience?

so, there is no owner proclaimed by the sensation itself.
what else is there to proclaim an owner?

Take a look and tell me.

[daisyrain]

so, there is no owner proclaimed by the sensation itself.
what else is there to proclaim an owner?

Take a look and tell me.

thought can be found. 🎺


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I think it's best to come back to this.
There is a whole going on. I've written a bunch and it feels like it helped.
You don't have to read it, if there's no new answer I'll just come back to your questions when it's all a little settled, yeah? :)
Wishing you a beautiful day Becc!:)

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I'll just try to write out what comes. It feels so unorganized and exploded here. I notice that writing what comes up really helps. I hope you don't mind, it's still trying my best.

part of me just wants to come crawling here for comfort.
I'm not sure if I am capable of answering, of going that step.
it feels like there's something solid and and "roughed up" / "sore" / "used". there's "feeling" in it.
mental image is like a meteorite, burned up with patches of red hot glow still glimming from atmospheric entry.

for some reason (or maybe no reason?)
it is like that is... not on board with going the last mile. step.
like that sensation could prevent it.

yesterday I got to talk vince's ear off.
Can I take a moment to just talk about that? of course I'm just going to go ahead, but it feels less rude asking first (◡ ‿ ◡ ✿)
I really want to see if I still know what that entire thing was...

It ties back to that "worn" sensation.
we talked about keeping one finger on the "safety line".
About it being an pointless game trying to figure out if you're in "reality" or in a "dream", for you cannot know.
so, that safety line itself can only ever be futile. there can't be anything on the other hand.
Just "addiction to the next moment" or "imagining there's something else".

and that this sort of is a divided state really. it's not fully, wholeheartedly being.
this safety line or "monitoring where you are" is still a form of holding back. of being in "two places".
which is itself of course an illusion, but descriptive of this monitoring movement.
Of this safety line, of this holding back, of this "keeping track where you are".

That can be found here, right now. With that sensation of the worn down meteorite.

Also the trumped-practice comes as such immense aid here. astonishing.
it's like the impossible is possible by not arguing with thoughts.

an attitude corresponding to "owner" can be found.
very subtle. <-- wait, can that be true? that seems like a thought. a story.

yeah. it seems like there's this tiniest movement of "reflection" happening:
keeping track of what is, asserting what is, how it relates to "me".

[graceabounds]

The safety line was a safety mechanism for a self that never existed. It is an illusion on top of an illusion.

That said, does it need to be owned by you? Now?

it seems like there's this tiniest movement of "reflection" happening:
keeping track of what is, asserting what is, how it relates to "me".

Where is that? Is it a who?

the impossible is possible by not arguing with thoughts.

Not arguing is a non-doing. Is there resistance in that? Can they just pass by?

[daisyrain]

Not arguing is a non-doing. Is there resistance in that? Can they (thoughts) just pass by?

well, with the "trumpet exercise" loaded and employed, it is possible. Somehow.
it takes effort. Or maybe it rather takes commitment.

That said, does it need to be owned by you? Now?

no, not really.

it seems like there's this tiniest movement of "reflection" happening:
keeping track of what is, asserting what is, how it relates to "me".

Where is that? Is it a who

not really a who. more of a habit...

[daisyrain]

It feels so very okay when not believing a single thought.

The second a thought is believed, it’s awful

[daisyrain]

one thing that surprised me were underying assumptions about the trumped exercise (overwriting thoughts with blahblahblah) being cheating.

isd it cheating?
I'm just gonna write down thoughts / feelings that come up around that.

it does feel more like a doing than "just observing".
and just observing thoughts does not at all feel so clean. the pull of thoughts is still strong honestly.
as said, they feel awful. believing them feels awful

[daisyrain]

its like I'm searching for a movement (that is not a movement) to not believe thoughts.
Which is of course not possible :'D

[graceabounds]

Does it ‘feel awful’ in a truth vs lies in the body sort of way?

its like I'm searching for a movement (that is not a movement) to not believe thoughts.

If you had any control over thoughts, don’t you think you would choose not to think unpleasant thoughts at all? Wouldn’t you be able to choose never to have thoughts that seem to make you feel awful?

Throwing it back to here for a moment:

https://liberationunleashed.com/nation/ ... 20#p414320

It is thought on thought…
can you ever find a ‘me’ within the layers of these “me” thoughts and feelings?

[daisyrain]

well, I'm a bit in awe you found that old post

[daisyrain]

is there really that approval thought needed to believe a thought?

eg. a thought that says 'this thought is true'

It doesn't feel like that can be seen at all.
is it something slightly more subtle than a normal thought? Is it an attitude?

Am I looking at the wrong thing when I look for "thought"?
Is my idea of what a thought is maybe false?

Because I can't really find something that spells out "that (thought) is true" after an thought

[graceabounds]

Write down ALL your thoughts for 5 minutes.
Then look down the list and see which ones are ‘true’.
See if you can catch that thought B.

[graceabounds]

May be able to notice ‘this thought is not true’ more easily at first.