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[Windaway]

Hello Tom,

What came up was a thought in opposition to there not being a witness or experiencer, as witnessing obviously is happening. I continue by questioning myself, "Is there not a witness?" and directs my attention to DE to see what I find. Whether or not there is a witness is hard to tell, but the fact that witnessing DE is happening is hard to look past.

Witnessing is happening. Experiencing is happening.
There is no "past" those.

Tell me more about this witness.
What is its nature?
What is its quality?

When you use the worlds "I" and "me" to what are you refering to?

[user]

Good morning David!

Tell me more about this witness.
What is its nature?

I can't seem to locate this witness, it appears that I have assumed that it's there. So other than that its nature is witnessing I can't say much.

What is its quality?

It has the quality of being aware of the sense input and mental activity.

When you use the words "I" and "me", what are you referring to?

In DE, I would have to say that I am referring to the one that is aware. It's still hard to look past that I am not the body. It seems like the witnessing is happening through the body, or so I have assumed at least. So it seems to be tightly connected and intimate with my core. Perhaps because it has been there for so long.

//Tom

[Windaway]

Hello Tom,

I can't seem to locate this witness, it appears that I have assumed that it's there. So other than that its nature is witnessing I can't say much.

It has the quality of being aware of the sense input and mental activity.

Okay, so see that any reference to an entitiy, a person or separate witness is an inference or a thought. But none of those are actual or findable in any way shape or form.


The only experience you have of "space" are the object appearing in it. Without those object you would be able to perceive space. So space is there but never you see it directly.
If it helps think like a spacelike awareness or like being aware of space.
Awareness is obviously aware as experiencing proves it BUT it is not a "thing" itself. Awareness is not itself an object to be seen, felt, touched, smelled, tasted, or thought.

In DE, I would have to say that I am referring to the one that is aware. It's still hard to look past that I am not the body. It seems like the witnessing is happening through the body, or so I have assumed at least. So it seems to be tightly connected and intimate with my core. Perhaps because it has been there for so long.

The only experience you have of "a body" is sensation.
Where do sensations appear?

Try this:
Introductory Body Exercise

Sit with eyes closed for about 15 minutes.
Paying attention only to the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images:

Can it be known how tall the body is?
Does the body have a weight or volume?
In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?
Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

Is there an inside or an outside?
If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly?
If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?
What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

Look very carefully, especially with the last question. Take your time, don’t rush. You can look several times during the day while doing other things (like washing hands, showering, having a short break from work, walking, etc) before replying.

[user]

Good evening David!

Take your time, don’t rush. You can look several times during the day while doing other things (like washing hands, showering, having a short break from work, walking, etc) before replying.

I misread this, so I really took my time with this. I got the impression that I was supposed to do this for a few days.

Can it be known how tall the body is?

No, I haven't been able to know how tall the body is just by exploring the sensations.

Does the body have a weight or volume?

I have not found a weight nor a volume. What I have noticed though, is that sensations seem to be rather flat. Furthermore, sensations that I intellectually "know" are set apart in distance, like my foot and my face, does not seem to be set apart at all. At times, it seems like they overlap (when focusing on both sensations simultaneously).

In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

Not in a clear and distinct way.

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?

No clear boundary, only the sensation where the clothing touches the body.

Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

Same here. No clear boundary, only the sensation of where the body meets the chair.

Is there an inside or an outside?

Everything seems to be in the same space. Like everything is an inner.

If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly?

It's like this inner is the confines of my awareness.

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?

It refers to a shape/form and colors in my visual field, along with a collection of sensations.

What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

Sensations, shape/form and colors.

//Tom

[Windaway]

What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

Sensations, shape/form and colors.

Where do Sensations, shape/form and colors appear?

Is there anyone controlling those Sensations, shape/form and color appearances?

[user]

Good morning David!

Where do Sensations, shape/form and colors appear?

I don't know where they appear, other than to say that they appear within my conscious reach. Interestingly, they appear in the same space, as if there is no distinction between sensual and visual space.

Is there anyone controlling those Sensations, shape/form and color appearances?

The sensations seem to be in their own control. The colors are what they are; no one is controlling them.
About shapes, they can be altered through movement. And with it, there is a sense of being in control.


//Tom

[Windaway]

Where do Sensations, shape/form and colors appear?

I don't know where they appear, other than to say that they appear within my conscious reach. Interestingly, they appear in the same space, as if there is no distinction between sensual and visual space.

Interesting, keep exploring in this direction!

Conscious reach, I like that!

See that the only fact you discover is that anything and everything appear only in conscious reach.

In this conscious reach space, where sensual and visual space have no distinction, see where is thinking happening?

[user]

Good evening David!

In this conscious reach space, where sensual and visual space have no distinction, see where is thinking happening?

It seems like thinking is happening in the same space, but at the same time it seems cutoff from it. Perhaps it is just the quality of thought that make it seem this way. In other words, the distinction between the mental and the sense inputs.

//Tom

[Windaway]

It seems like thinking is happening in the same space, but at the same time it seems cutoff from it. Perhaps it is just the quality of thought that make it seem this way. In other words, the distinction between the mental and the sense inputs.

There is infinite distinction but never separation. Can you see/feel that?

Can you find an entity called Tom, me, or you inside this space?

Would it be possible to have an entity called Tom, me, or you outside this space?

See that all is in this space.
The other name for that space can be awareness.

[user]

Good morning David!

There is infinite distinction but never separation. Can you see/feel that?

Yes! That's what I am seeing. Very much spot on!

Can you find an entity called Tom, me, or you inside this space?

No, I have not been able to do that. I have tried to locate the one being aware, but I can't seem to pinpoint its location.

Would it be possible to have an entity called Tom, me, or you outside this space?

That is something I can't conceive of, so I don't know.


//Tom

[Windaway]

Hello Tom,

No, I have not been able to do that. I have tried to locate the one being aware, but I can't seem to pinpoint its location.

Do you understand, see, experience sentences like:
There is no self
The illusory separate self
Etc...?

[user]

Good Morning David!

Do you understand, see, experience sentences like:
There is no self
The illusory separate self
Etc...?

No, I would say that the ego structure is still overarching my reality.
However, when looking in DE I can't find a separate entity, but this does not seem to convince me.

//Tom

[Windaway]

No, I would say that the ego structure is still overarching my reality.
However, when looking in DE I can't find a separate entity, but this does not seem to convince me.

Reality never presente itself naked.
Whenever there is experience there is some kind of "ego structure".

What does not existe do not hide anything to begin with so why anything should be differente?

What do you believe should happen to be convince that there is no separate entity?

It is impossible to prove a negative. For example I can't prove to you that there is no santa claus.
What happen to you to stop believe in santa Claus?

[user]

Good morning David!

What does not existe do not hide anything to begin with so why anything should be differente?

Good point. I don't know. There are expectations that awakening will bring with it a whole new way of perceiving things. That I, to some extent, will disassociate with the character Tom and no longer take things so personally. That I can clearly see that I am not this mind/body "entity."

What do you believe should happen to be convince that there is no separate entity?

Some sort of realization like an "Aha! I am not this!" and expectedly, as a result of this, a deep relief.

It is impossible to prove a negative. For example I can't prove to you that there is no santa claus.
What happen to you to stop believe in santa Claus?

Aren't I trying to prove to myself that there is no separate entity?

I don't remember exactly but I assume I found out that whenever I saw him it was someone else who was pretending to be him. In other words, because I've never seen him myself. And yes, I guess you're right, I can't actually prove that he doesn't exist.

//Tom

[Windaway]

Good point. I don't know. There are expectations that awakening will bring with it a whole new way of perceiving things. That I, to some extent, will disassociate with the character Tom and no longer take things so personally. That I can clearly see that I am not this mind/body "entity."

Dissociation is not a solution to anything.
On the contrary. Instead of trying to avoid or tu run aways of this sense of me. Focus on it.