I would like seeking to stop

[lupin]

When you use the word "me" to what is this word pointing to?

I don't know. I'm trying to answer this without using thought but I seem to be stuck. There is the idea of there being some sort of centre here where everything is being registered.

[lupin]

The me has an agenda here. To see that it is not real.

There is a sense of confinement. Also there is a physical problem that I try to avoid noticing (not intentionally). And tiny flashes of spaciousness.

[Windaway]

Can thgouht know anything?


For this exploration sit on a chair. Close your eyes or look straight forward.

Eyes open (looking straight) or eyes close you have no visual perception of this “chair”. Correct?

Thought tell you that : “this sensation is a chair.”
Thought can show you a mental image of a chair.
But is concept and image the actual chair?

Does thought can know the actual chair on which you’re sitting?
Can the thought: “this is a chair.” Know the actual chair?
Can the image of “a chair” know the actual chair?

I use the world chair but all you know in your direct experience is a sensation.
So, the question is not can thought know a chair but can thought know sensation?

Is the actual sensation you feel right now known by thought or by you?

Take any thought popping into your mind. And check if any thought can know a sensation.

Maybe is the other way around?
Can sensation know thought?
Is this sensation knowing the mental image of a chair?
Is this sensation knowing the concept: Chair?

If not. Then two questions:
What is that which knows?
Who is the one who knows?

[lupin]

But is concept and image the actual chair?

No

Can thought know the actual chair on which you’re sitting?

No

Can the thought: “this is a chair.” Know the actual chair?

No

Can the image of “a chair” know the actual chair?

No

Is the actual sensation you feel right now known by thought or by you?

By me.

Maybe is the other way around?
Can sensation know thought?
Is this sensation knowing the mental image of a chair?
Is this sensation knowing the concept: Chair?

No

What is that which knows?
Who is the one who knows?

There is awareness of the thought and the sensation.

[Windaway]

There is awareness of the thought and the sensation.

Ok, there is awareness of thought and sensation. Another way to say it is that there is awarness of experience.
Where is the entity called Lupin?
Can you find a self in any way shape or form?

[lupin]

Where is the entity called Lupin?
Can you find a self in any way shape or form?

I can't see, hear or otherwise experience an entity called Lupin but it still seems to be there as what is doing the seeing, hearing etc. And I seem to be what is doing the trying to find.

[Windaway]

I can't see, hear or otherwise experience an entity called Lupin but it still seems to be there as what is doing the seeing, hearing etc. And I seem to be what is doing the trying to find.

The word "seems" in your answer is very important:
It seems to be Lupin doing the seing, hearing, etc...

But it is really Lupin that is DOING those?
How is an entity, (that you can't find by the way) making the seing?

How is an entity, (that you can't find by the way) making the walking?
We use about 200 muscles in the simple act of walking. Is this Lupin in charge of moving all of them?
Are you the one moving the 200 muscles? Can you even feel the 200 muscles involved in a single step?

Many things can seem to be. In fact ANYTHING can seem to be.

When you feel that Lupin is IN CHARGE what is this entity, (that you still can't find in your direct experience) in charge of, EXACTLY?

°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°

The word "I" is probably the most used in language.
Off course it is "I" that is aware and therefore it always feel that everything happen "to me" and that "I" am the one doing evertything.

The question we focus on specifically in LU is this:
Is this "I" a self separate from its environment with free will and choice?
Is this "I" an entity existing in its own right separate from the world, other, and doomed to die?
Is there an entity called a LUPIN, in control of the physical functioning of the unfathomable complexity of the biomechanics of the body?
Is there an entity called a LUPIN, in control of the unfolding of the universe?

[lupin]

But it is really Lupin that is DOING those?
How is an entity, (that you can't find by the way) making the seeing?

Seeing is already happening automatically and then the claim is made that I am seeing.
It's a bit confusing when you say that YOU can't find. It's the 'you' word that seems to say that there is a me here that can't find.

How is an entity, (that you can't find by the way) making the walking?
We use about 200 muscles in the simple act of walking. Is this Lupin in charge of moving all of them?
Are you the one moving the 200 muscles? Can you even feel the 200 muscles involved in a single step?

I wouldn't have a clue how to do the walking. It just happens.

When you feel that Lupin is IN CHARGE what is this entity, (that you still can't find in your direct experience) in charge of, EXACTLY?

Who is it that feels that Lupin is in charge? I think that you in these sentences must just be being used to make conversation easier, I've read that.

When you feel that Lupin is IN CHARGE what is this entity, (that you still can't find in your direct experience) in charge of, EXACTLY?

That's a good question and I'm going to try to find out. I'm not in charge of whether there seems to be a me here or not or there wouldn't be by now. I'm posting this before it's lost but will continue.

[lupin]

Is this "I" a self separate from its environment with free will and choice?

I don't think that I have free will or choice because I just notice what happens as it is happening. Even choices being made are just what is already happening. I do feel that I am separate from the environment. I seem to be able to view the environment as a viewer.

Is this "I" an entity existing in its own right separate from the world, other, and doomed to die?

That is the story that's going on. That is the story that is currently being believed to be true.

Is there an entity called a LUPIN, in control of the physical functioning of the unfathomable complexity of the biomechanics of the body?

Definitely not.

Is there an entity called a LUPIN, in control of the unfolding of the universe?

All I know about the universe is what appears in 'my?' awareness. I don't control what happens.

[Windaway]

Hello Lupin,

Seeing is already happening automatically and then the claim is made that I am seeing.

This is clear.
Now ask yourself:
Is the claim also an automatic happening?

Can you see that "I am the one claiming this or that" is a thought?

It's a bit confusing when you say that YOU can't find. It's the 'you' word that seems to say that there is a me here that can't find.

It is confusing at first. I understand.
This is only a semantic issu. The "you", "I" and "me" are used for communication only.

I am writing in a loss way. But maybe I should be more carrfull to errase all the "you"' from my answer.

It can sound like this:
How is an entity, (that never appears in experience) making the seeing?

I wouldn't have a clue how to do the walking. It just happens.

Look at experience. How many activities in everyday life, just happens?

All I know about the universe is what appears in 'my?' awareness. I don't control what happens.

Great. Is there an entity, person, a self, making this awareness?
Is there any evidence in experience of such "things" outside of thoughts?

[lupin]

Look at experience. How many activities in everyday life, just happens?

I need to spend a bit longer on this because it needs to be seen more clearly. But I do realize that I don't know how to do anything. I can't make the eyes see or the ears hear. I don't know how to wake up or fall asleep. I don't know how to be aware. It's really helpful to look at these questions because it's just taken for granted that I do all of these things.

Great. Is there an entity, person, a self, making this awareness?

A self doesn't make awareness.

Is there any evidence in experience of such "things" outside of thoughts?

It's a very insistent thought. It says that there is someone here doing the looklng even though I can see that looking just happens.

Can you see that "I am the one claiming this or that" is a thought?

I can see that that sentence is a thought.

[lupin]

For a moment there was a sense of lightness. The burden lifted for a moment. That was an hour ago and now it is just a memory.

[lupin]

Is the claim also an automatic happening?

It's just what happens. So yes, it's automatic.

Can you see that "I am the one claiming this or that" is a thought?

It's words and not direct experience, so yes it's thought. "There is a me here", is a thought that's presently happening. I'm not seeing clearly that it's not true but I can tell that it's thought.

[Windaway]

Hello Lupin,

It's words and not direct experience, so yes it's thought. "There is a me here", is a thought that's presently happening. I'm not seeing clearly that it's not true but I can tell that it's thought.

The separate self is a thought.

Seeing that it is a thought, IS seeing clearly that it is not true.

Thoughts are not reality.

What are you expecting to happen when you see clearly that there is no separate self?

[lupin]

What are you expecting to happen when you see clearly that there is no separate self?

I expect to stop identifying with it. I can see that the words are forming, 'there is a separate self here' and see that is thought. But it's like 'I' am seeing that. This me here is seeing that the words 'this me here' are thought forms.