Seeking more than an intellectual understanding

[solstice]

Follow up question if no-one is in control, who/what is the one taking these suggestions such as the following on board?

Creating a better relationship with thoughts may help - everytime you notice being lost in thought, laugh out loud or smile, the bigger the better.
Once a better relationship exists, some people find it works if they ask their thoughts to leave them alone.
Others just tell their thoughts to fuck off, but you need the relationship first, otherwise this last technique can backfire.

[jrm72]

Morning Solstice,

if no-one is in control, who/what is the one taking these suggestions

Ah, here we have it - No one, there's no self there and there's no one here.

I have my own theories as to what's going on, but they are just more thoughts.
There is no control over thoughts, there is no control over actions, what is happening is happening (as far as awareness goes) and that's it.
Usually at this point, some people say, well then I don't need to do anything or why should I bother etc, but they're only more thoughts, you don't get to choose whether you do or don't do anything, it's all happening as it is.
There's no one this end choosing to send these messages to you.
There are obviously a lot of implications to all this (but then again if you think about it, there are no implications at all).

What we refer to as I is what is happening now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYp5XuGYqqY

How are you feeling?


❤️🖖

[solstice]

what is happening is happening (as far as awareness goes)

Could you expand on this please, specifically the as far as awareness goes part

What we refer to as I is what is happening now.

By this do you mean awareness of direct experience?

How are you feeling?

Quite good

[jrm72]

Morning Solstice,

what is happening is happening (as far as awareness goes)
Could you expand on this please, specifically the as far as awareness goes part

What we refer to as I is what is happening now.
By this do you mean awareness of direct experience?

There isn't awareness of direct experience, awareness is direct experience.
There is no I, there's only direct experience.
We don't have a sense of vision, smell etc, we are the sense of vision, smell etc.
We are the sights we see, the sounds we hear ...

Strip away the labels we use to describe things (for the menu is not the meal, the map is not the territory, the word is not the thing) and tell me, what is left?


❤️🖖

[solstice]

Strip away the labels we use to describe things (for the menu is not the meal, the map is not the territory, the word is not the thing) and tell me, what is left?

Just the things?

[jrm72]

Hello Solstice,

Just the things?

Badly worded on my part, yes - everything.


❤️🖖

[solstice]

Badly worded on my part, yes - everything.

This makes sense, it still feels like there is some sort of choice of where attention/awareness is directed. Is this just another thought after the fact about where attention has been placed?

[jrm72]

Evening Solstice,

it still feels like there is some sort of choice of where attention/awareness is directed.

How would it feel if there wasn't a choice?

Is this just another thought after the fact about where attention has been placed?

By the time we place a label on something (whether that be a sensation, a thought or any DE) it's already history.



Try to narrow your focus to the present moment and let me know what you find.



❤️🖖

[solstice]

How would it feel if there wasn't a choice?

Weird, at one point it would have scared me or made me sad or angry,
am "I" just forced to watch this story unfold?

But now just sort of indifferent.
It is what is lol

Try to narrow your focus to the present moment and let me know what you find.

Again this makes me ask if there is not an I attempting this then what is, and what are you talking to?

All I find is experience

[jrm72]

Morning Solstice,

am "I" just forced to watch this story unfold?

This is where things start to change - there's no you to be forced to do anything.

It is what is lol

Yes

Again this makes me ask if there is not an I attempting this then what is, and what are you talking to?

Nothing

(Using the word "I" here to keep communication sensible)
I believe there is a body here, and when I look, I find I have no control over it.
I believe there is a brain here, but when I look, I find I have no control of it.
(Check if this is the case for you too.)
So this sense of I, that I have, does absolutely nothing. It was a delusion and now it's an illusion, like the mirage.
So there's nothing here, in control, of nothing.
Check out what's going on your end.
None of this means there isn't a unique perspective and a unique set of experiences.
What it says to me is the story of an I, that I had, that was me running my life is obviously not true.

What is true (when we really look)?

As a comedian once said - there's a non zero chance I'm sitting in a padded cell telling jokes to a wall that I think is an audience laughing back.
We can give ourselves any back story we like, and as you said -

All I find is experience

Is there an I finding experience or is there just experience?

How long does the experience last (not the memory of it)?

[solstice]

Is there an I finding experience or is there just experience?

Just experience

How long does the experience last (not the memory of it)?

It does not last, each instant happens and then is gone. I guess one could argue the sequence of instants is eternal

[jrm72]

Morning Solstice,

It does not last, each instant happens and then is gone. I guess one could argue the sequence of instants is eternal

Try this -

Pick an experience that happens in a instant (ie: listening to a word being spoken, say the word "happening")
Relatively short and quick experience, but it has a beginning, middle and end.
So you can shorten the experience to 'happen'
then to 'hap'
then to 'ha'
then to the sound of the letter aitch.
But even the sound of aitch has a beginning, middle and end.

How far can you narrow it down?
What's the experience as you do this?


♥️

[solstice]

How far can you narrow it down?
What's the experience as you do this?

I’m not really sure there is any experience other than hearing the word being said?
Obviously the more I focus the more the word can be broken down into its parts as you said and their parts

[jrm72]

Morning Solstice,

How about expanding to longer timescales, when does an experience become two experiences?

For example -

Happening
Happening now
Happening now painfully
Happening now painfully because
Happening now painfully because John ...


❤️🖖

[solstice]

How about expanding to longer timescales, when does an experience become two experiences?

For example -

Happening
Happening now
Happening now painfully
Happening now painfully because
Happening now painfully because John ...

Does it make sense to say they are all both singular experiences, but also part of the bigger whole? Each word in the sentence is its own experience, just as the sentence as a whole is its own experience. Just as the conversation the sentence takes place in could be seen as a singular experience. So all experiences are compromised of smaller experiences, but can still be experienced as one continuous experience.

That is a lot of the word experience lol I hope what I have written makes sense